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Anyone else here sick of T.A.T.U?

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
23:59 / 09.06.03
In other words: Sypha, time and time again people come here banging on about good or bad taste, apparently oblivious to the fact that it means absolutely fuck all.

If you want to criticize, at least attempt to do so without half your argument boiling down to "You like it, but I don't: therefore, you are wrong and I am right."

That last post of yours? Complete and utter bollocks.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
01:17 / 10.06.03
I think I'm going to try and lure Haus back into this conversation by noting that in the picture arcboi thoughtfully posted, the dark-haired one is wearing what resemble tighty-whities (y fronts), and that the stripping school girl 30 year old groupies in the MTV awards performace certainly were as well. Is this adoption of little-boy underwear merely an attempt to lure that other flavor of paedo into the target audience (not that I would necessarily agree that t.a.t.u.'s appeal is limited to those whose tastes in females mirror that of Jimmy Page), or is there some element of "gender-fuck" going on here, above and beyond the dyke- facade. Girls wearing boy underwear doesn't really signify lesbianism, does it?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:39 / 10.06.03
overblown pretentious nonsense from the 70's

Those words describe some of the best music of all time!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:40 / 10.06.03
Oh, and I'm sorry about forgetting that yr dad is apparently cooler than me, Sypha.
 
 
Catjerome
02:09 / 10.06.03
Girls wearing boy underwear doesn't really signify lesbianism, does it?

I don't know if this is related, but ... I went into Victoria's Secret this weekend and found all sorts of thongs, low-rise panties, etc., all in vaguely masculine colors (grey, striped grey, etc.) and all distinctly sewn to look like y-fronts. It was the weirdest thing I'd seen all week. Plus they seem to be having some kind of big push toward "boy pants" - row after row of pink cropped boxer shorts, pretty much. Is there some kind of underwearfuck fashion movement underway?

I don't think it necessarily signifies lesbianism. I think it depends on how it's worn ... there's a difference between a woman wearing drag to pass and Marlene Dietrich in Morocco, or (again with the Vicky's Secret) a woman wearing a "boyfriend" sweater.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:10 / 10.06.03
considering a lot of people here seem to lap up shit like T.A.T.U. with claims like "oh look, it's ironic, it's all a big prank, ha ha ha"

Interestingly, there have been no such claims on this thread. The people here who like Tatu seem to do so without any appeal to irony. You would appear to be projecting, based on an already identified inability to comprehend that some people like music which you dislike, coupled with a need to attribute that liking to some kind of impure motive - such as irony, sexual attraction, being taken in by marketing, etc*.

(Cross reference: "are you all fucking mad, or are you students being ironic[?]", from this thread.)

So let me spell it out: I like Tatu because I like the music I've heard. I don't fancy them, and their ambiguous relationship does no more to titillate me than that of Jack and Meg White (by the way, is someone who buys White Stripes records "lining the pockets" of sick incest-glamourising perverts?). I just like the songs I've heard. So do other people. Why not just let us like 'em, eh, and stop being so concerned with image?

*Personally I don't believe it's really possible for one's motives to be ever 100% "pure" when it comes to liking music - but this will apply to the Oneida fan as much as the Tatu fan...
 
 
C.Elseware
09:09 / 10.06.03
seconded. I like what they sound like. Although I've not got the album, I'm now tempted out of mere barbelbaiting.

THERE IS NO ACCOUNTING FOR TASTE. That means that you can't expect people to account for their true tastes as they are not a matter of intellect but something less rational.

I really hate this psudointellectual peer pressure to only consume "worthy" media.
 
 
AfroBarber
09:11 / 10.06.03
They are really boring. Shodddy lyrics, just the same old shit over and over. first single = 'All the things you said, all the things you said, running through my head, running through my head' repeat x500. Second single = 'There not gonna get us, not gonna get us' repeat x500. They fucking suck!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:39 / 10.06.03
I would disagree with Randy - taste *does* mean something. it just doesn't mean what Sypha thinks it does, which is slightly different.

Sypha - you seem to have decided a) that people who do like TATU can only like TATU for reasons of irony, b) that anyone who claims to like TATU is actually lying to appear cool, and that c) anyone who likes TATU is supporting paedophilia. Could you, from that point of view, suggest some bands who can be liked sincerely, truthfully and without kiddy-fiddling?
 
 
--
09:55 / 10.06.03
Michael Jackson.
 
 
No star here laces
10:07 / 10.06.03
"Sheena is a punk rocker, sheena is a punk rocker" repeat x 500 = boring, shoddy shit, same old lyrics over and over?

You tell me...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:39 / 10.06.03
No fun! No fun, no fun!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:22 / 10.06.03
I'm the firestarter, twisted firestarter...

I think certainly that any defence of TATU based on the idea that their lyrics are complex, Callimachean things of endless intricacy are probably doomed from the start. For that, one might recommend Leonard Cohen or the Magnetic Fields.

So what *would* one recommend TATU for, assuming that one is not just being ironic or a paedophile? Quality pop tunes? An interesting image, à la the White Stripes? An admirable marketing campaign? The fact that there is now at least one Japanese tribute band?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:58 / 10.06.03
And that Handel, he's shit, too, innee: "Ha-lellujah Ha-lellujah Hallelujah halelujah hale-e-lu-jah" for six fucking minutes. Messiah my arse, thinks I.

Bloody thing hasn't even got any proper drums on it.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:03 / 10.06.03
Oh, and I dig TATU cos their tunes have a good beat and they're easy to dance to.

And also the way that their cover of "How Soon Is Now" actually accentuates the harmonic ambiguity of the vocal melody by refusing to resolve to the major third on the last syllable of "vulgar."
 
 
eye landed
02:07 / 11.06.03
TATU would fail entirely as a piece of concept art if their music was anything but limp. As much as one can derive pleasure from repetitive beats (except in England after dark, or something), everything TATU does musically is done better by pretty much everybody else who tries. My girlfriend, who likes them and got her hair cut to look like Julia (the dark one), only listens to their music in Russian and hasn't actually sent money to anyone other than her ISP and the Maxell CD-R company. If the music was good, people would buy the albums, the girls would get respect, and they would be just another pop group with an effective gimmick, like the aforementioned White Stripes. As it is, they subvert the concept of pop artists qua artists by marketing little other than an ideology that comes straight from a middle-aged white man who gets nearly as much press as the braless wonders he thrust onto the world's stages.

Any attempt to place TATU into some kind of queer or feminist metanarrative is going to encounter the paradox of publicity-through-exploitation. Lesbians are a symbol of the collapse of society (bear with me): they invalidate males and the premodern sexual dialectic, they attack American frontier puritanism with dystopian hedonistic freedom (think Brave New World), and they marginalize gay men (the force behind postmodernism) as unappealing (read: unmarketable) anachronisms. That's what the Spice Girls meant by "girl power," right? And we all wished they would get as physical as TATU, didn't we? How long can it be before "underage snuff fetish orgies" is the ironic concept for a pop group? The exploitationist ideology is a direct result of feminism (not that women were not exploited before feminism, but it wasn't prime time entertainment). For men, it's a grab for lost power, and for women, it's an inability to redefine the arena of sexual warfare outside the masculine consumer economy. (There are plenty more issues at work here, but this is supposed to be about TATU.) Shapovalov positions a pair of brainless whores as models of ironic rebellion, and it is made clear that the so-called "artists" are not the source of any "art" other than, perhaps, their female bodies. Shapovalov not only co-opts postmodern youth-worship to reinstate the power of the patriarch (himself), but also gets to fuck hot teenage girls--possibly more than one at a time. These two things are linked, of course--which seems almost Marxist--and that makes me aware that my own quasi-paedophilian desire (can lusting after a well-developed 14-year-old be called paedophilia?--this could probably get its own thread) is really the desire for the sexual patriarchy modeled in the Bible, or even better, the Koran. If TATU exists, the terrorists have already won. But seriously, this post would fail entirely as a piece of concept art if I had the vaguest idea of what I was talking about.
 
 
videodrome
02:54 / 11.06.03
Just had a look at that Awards performance bit. Not terribly shocking, then. But the song does sound quite a lot like Earthling-era Bowie, if the Thin White Duke was actually two teenaged pseudo-dykes. Or something.

Hey, I can dance to it. Whatever.
 
 
Lionheart
07:12 / 11.06.03
Here's the thing that I don't get.. How is Tatu promoting pedophilia?
 
 
--
10:05 / 11.06.03
So, gay men are one of the forces behing postmodernism? Well, that cheers me up at least.

You know, this being one of my throwaway "posted because I had nothing better to post" threads it's actually generated more responses then I thought I would. Myself, if I appear pompous and only think the music I listen to is worth listening to, it's only because on-line I like to assume the identity of a "more alternative then thou" music fan.

Actually, I'm like that in real life to. I guess I just have very strong opinions about music, like most people.
 
 
C.Elseware
10:37 / 11.06.03
It took me many psycological bashings over the head from the zen master which is life before I learned this handy technique for deciding what music you like:

* Listen to the music

* Consider how it makes you feel

* Ignore all social implications, just *feel*

* Consider if you would like to feel that way again at a later date. If so then you like the music.


Note that I didn't say "makes you feel happy, etc."

The art, not the artist, dude.
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:56 / 11.06.03
you know i think this forum would be a lot more interesting if, on a thread with a name like 'is anyone sick of X', people were allowed just to vent and rant about how their taste was better than anyone else's. otherwise we will all be debating that thing jack said about melodic thirds or whatever it was and i am convinced that abusing each other for having bad taste will be much, much more fun. that said, anyone who doesn't like tatu is just trying to be cool (and failing, of course).
 
 
Jack Fear
23:47 / 11.06.03
Tt. What would a cloth-eared disco duck like you know about taste?
 
 
--
02:50 / 12.06.03
Dear god, it's almost getting to the point where I'm ready to retitle this topic "Anyone else here sick of this thread?"
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
05:06 / 12.06.03
the more i dislike them, the more i can't seem to avoid them: they are always on tv. it's weird because if they weren't so ubiquitous they wouldn't bother me so much.

natch! that's what you get for watching TV. I didn't even know they were popular.

my roommate was off in finland on some strange ferry ride across the whatever sea during a storm while they played nothing but TATU. He wrote home a drunken email telling me I had to buy it. And I did. Ha ha.

They're good singers in a cute chipmunky kind of way. Wonder what they'd sound like if someone talented wrote/produced their songs instead of whatever computer program it is that tries to generate the mathematically-most-likely-to-be-popular sound.

The CD has russian versions of their songs, which helps much.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:20 / 12.06.03
Wonder what they'd sound like if someone talented wrote/produced their songs instead of whatever computer program it is that tries to generate the mathematically-most-likely-to-be-popular sound.

That would be the Trevor Horn v2.0 program, then?

I wonder what Tatu would sound like if all their songs were made from *real* things, like wood and bits of soil. And leaves. Instead, they allegedly record their songs in studios, even going so far as to use some of this "modern technology" nonsense. The artifice! The horror of living in a fallen world!
 
 
Jackie Susann
11:25 / 12.06.03
No really Jack, tell us some more about harmonic ambiguity, that was really interesting.
 
 
bjacques
13:22 / 12.06.03
Jesus Christ Superstar was for all the ex-hippies getting religion, mostly by reading "One Way." It was a cash-in, but a good one, with a strong cast and (I thought) somewhat better-written songs than the ones in Hair. JCS was enough of a success that similar musicals, like Godspell and Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, did well too.

Hey, maybe T.A.T.U. should star in a new production of JCS...
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
00:05 / 13.06.03
I wonder what Tatu would sound like if all their songs were made from *real* things, like wood and bits of soil. And leaves. Instead, they allegedly record their songs in studios, even going so far as to use some of this "modern technology" nonsense. The artifice! The horror of living in a fallen world!

I meant to complain that it sounds depressingly unoriginal, not that it involved technology. If they'd gone to a committee of druids who predicted what music would be popular with the peasants this year it would have been just as bad.

...but I guess your point is still valid. Who cares how it's made as long as you like to listen to it? As much as my brain tells me to hate Tatu, my ears don't mind...their voices are just as cute as they are.

Still, the songs sound like somebody hit "generic techno" on their casio keyboard and let the girls sing along.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
05:01 / 13.06.03
Okay. Name one song that sounds just like "All The Things She Said" or "Not Gotta Get Us." Seriously. I want artist names and song titles.
 
 
eye landed
05:20 / 13.06.03
I don't know many titles, but a lot of their music sounds like decade-old epic trance. Paul van Dyk, for example. Some sounds more like Madonna. Tiffany (I Think We're Alone Now) is also recalled.

The best thing about them, musically, is the vocal performances. I think a lot of people listen to music almost entirely for vocal performances, which is why TATU, Britney, and others are popular. For many listeners, the songwriting doesn't matter as much as the hypnotic voice. TATU has a very wistful, tragic quality, and the fluff of their marketing only deepens the emotion. It's not Symphonie Pathetique, but it's intriguing.
 
 
Jackie Susann
07:53 / 13.06.03
I don't know anything about technical music talk, but I am really failing to see how they sound anything like any of the acts you cited - especiallyTiffany. About the only point of comparison I can see is that they use the first person pronoun. The Tatu sound seems to me pretty unlike anything else on the pop market - upbeat, but gratingly metallic and melancholic. There is nothing downbeat about I Think We're Alone Now.

You can fault Tatu for a lot of things, but their production is pretty unique relative to the field of commercial pop.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
08:08 / 13.06.03
Actually, they sound a lot like Linkin Park. Crossed with the Chipmunks.
 
 
arcboi
08:55 / 13.06.03
So TATU are "techno" and also "trance" now are they? By the weekend I'm sure we'll have posts stating that TATU are clearly "electroclash", "garage", "jazz funk", "drum n bass" and that they've *completely* ripped off Radiohead.

I guess you just can't have a rack at Tower labelled 'Edgy Girl Pop' can you?

Thank goodness Puffy never made it big in the West. The screaming would never stop.....
 
 
C.Elseware
13:02 / 13.06.03
Well, I just got the album. Mostly out of spite, I admit. Sounds like pop to me.

Now I wonder if I can get the alternative DJ to play the t.A.T.u. cover of the smiths when I go out tonight...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:47 / 13.06.03
They may well do if you go to It Came From The Sea (plug, plug)!
 
  

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