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Ichi the Killer

 
 
Seth
22:44 / 03.06.03
I'm starting this thread to see whether you horrible lot will be able to convince me on this movie either way.

I have no idea whether I want to see it, you see. Its reputation preceeds it by one hell of a long way.

Reprehensible or genius?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:49 / 04.06.03
Can't it be both?
 
 
videodrome
13:18 / 04.06.03
Have you seen anything else by Miike? Knowing his sensebilities might help.

But here's the easy way. Go to the IMBD and look up Ichi. In the 'alternate versions' area, read the scenes that were cut for the edited release. If the descriptions make you ill, then it's probably better to stay away. If not, full speed ahead.

For if you do see it, you can't get away with checking out the softened cut.

For the record, I find it (like most of his films) intermittently entertaining, but quite often simply tiring. It's a long way from either reprehensible or genius.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
15:28 / 04.06.03
For what it's worth I liked it a lot, if only due the fact that it made me laugh. The tongue cutting phone call scene is the darkest piece of slapstick ever, and the cum into credits opening sequence is a work of genius. Juvenile? Moi?
 
 
Seth
22:24 / 04.06.03
I've seen and thoroughly enjoyed Audition. That's it as far as my Miike experience goes.

I'll certainly follow your advice, though, videodrome. I caught Sympathy for Mr Vengeance last Saturday and thought it was pretty fab, so my tolerance levels are quite high.
 
 
videodrome
02:25 / 05.06.03
I liked Audition, loved The Happiness of the Katakuris and thought Dead Or Alive was incredibly tedious and generally lacking in inspiration. Ichi falls somewhere in the middle, with representatives from all those factions. The explicit nature of the flick certainly polarizes opinion, but ironically very few know much about Visitor Q, which is more genuinely disturbing from what I've seen. But the violence of Ichi is easier to discuss or disregard than the incest and degradation of Q.
 
 
Panic
18:46 / 06.06.03
ICHI is sick wrong fun through and through.

I mightily enjoyed the first ten minutes and the last five of DEAD OR ALIVE, and found the death-in-kiddie-pool scene much more disturbing than the climax of AUDITION. A dub of DOA2 is on my shelf awaiting perusal.

KATAKURIS was, um, nicer than I thought it would be. It'll require a few more viewings before I know if I like it or not.

My personal Miike fav is considered the least of his works - CITY OF LOST SOULS. Yakuza-Triad gang wars, Brazilian emigres, ping pong, and claymation Matrix cockfighting.....fun....
 
 
Pirate Ven Will Teach You To Lambada (The Forbidden Dance)
01:00 / 07.06.03
I second "Visitor Q" to be quite disturbing.
And I've been meaning to get Ichi for a while now. Anything that makes me think "Johnny The Homicidal Maniac: The Movie" has to at least be worth renting.
Plus the main character's fashion sense is simply superb.
 
 
videodrome
04:00 / 07.06.03
And on a side note, has anyone caught the Ichi animated series?

I always see it at Kim's in NYC, but have never thought to spring for the disc.
 
 
Seth
11:47 / 07.06.03
I've just ordered the uncut version (even including postage it's only a quid more expensive than the version missing eight minutes in HMV). I'll let you know what I think...
 
 
Danzig: He Pitys the Fool!
21:42 / 11.06.03
dude, you could have borrowed it off of me!
 
 
Seth
16:22 / 12.06.03
I didn't know you had it 'til last night! Plus I wanted the uncut version - the UK release is missed eight minutes. Which do you have?
 
 
Danzig: He Pitys the Fool!
16:35 / 12.06.03
fucked if i know. its a two disc jobbie. got it from mvc.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
22:59 / 17.06.03
i loved this movie. i was also very horrified. it truly felt like the work of a sociopath. it delivered very well on a message about despair as an asthetic choice in the face of unsolvable existentialism. not most people's way of life, but interesting to see unfold.

but... can anyone help me make literal sense of the ending?

or does it simply mean... "there is no meaning, and no amount of violence can beat meaning into submission?"
 
 
mondo a-go-go
12:03 / 18.06.03
It broke my brain.
 
 
tommac
13:11 / 18.06.03
Set, if you don't mind me asking - where did you order it from?

I've been searching for the Dutch uncut version for a while but I can only find it on eBay.
 
 
Seth
17:09 / 18.06.03
I picked up a Chinese uncut copy from E-Bay. At least, I think it's uncut - the seller seemed to know what he was talking about. Anyone know what was edited? There was one bit in which an unfortunate lady was on the receiving end of the purplest nurple I've ever seen, and I can't imagine that made the Brit release.

The only thing wrong with my copy was the wonky subs, which sometimes sped up until they were nearly too fast to read, or seemed slightly out of synch. Didn't spoil anything, though.

What a fucking great movie. I'll need to see this a second time before I even know where to start...
 
 
tommac
09:05 / 19.06.03
The number of different versions of Ichi the Killer is a bit confusing.

As far as I am aware the full theatrical release of the film was 128 minutes, so any version running to less than that has been cut.

The UK release has about 3 minutes of cuts and I think the Hong Kong release has over 13 minutes of cuts!

The Japanese, Chinese and Dutch versions are uncut as far as I know, but the problem with the Japanese and Chinese versions is that they are NTSC not PAL so people with nasty old TV's and unlocked DVD players like me probably won't be able to play them.

The subtitles on the Japanese version are supposed to be better than those in the Chinese release which are often out of synch.

This page gives some useful information on the cuts and the different versions - including the forthcoming uncut region 1 release due later this year.

http://www.kfccinema.com/reviews/horror/ichi/ichi.html
 
 
Seth
16:40 / 19.06.03
From the sounds of that site my version is uncut. I can't read the characters on the box, but there is a tiny "128" in the movie technical information panel.
 
 
Seth
20:34 / 15.07.03
Has anyone heard of the new Ichi movie? Apparently it disregards Miike's movie and has a more hands on approach from the original creator of the anime, bringing it more in line with the comic.
 
 
spidervirus
05:41 / 01.02.04
ok... i've been watching this for a week. i saw the ending.it was terribly confusing like a lynch film. anyone have any ideas on this?
 
 
The Knights Templar Boogie Machine
13:06 / 01.02.04
I don't understand the last shot with the schoolkids being led through the park, who is it whose face we see right at the end?
With regards to the cuts made, I think it was the scenes with the prostitute being beaten that did'nt make it into some versions, which isn't a major loss........
 
 
Jack Fear
16:18 / 30.03.04
Finally saw this, under less-than-ideal circumstances--heavily cut (117 minutes), on a damaged DVD that kept me from accessing some of the middle chapters: but frankly, I don't think I was missin' much. As Videodrome said, it has its moments, but overall it was simply tiring.

I found Ichi lacking in heart (if not entrails). Whereas Audition was visceral, powered by outrage and deep, primal fear, Ichi seemed, from beginning to end, a protracted, remorseless goof. An entertainment, yeah, but primarily for the filmmaker himself. A virtuosic put-on, like the worst sort of clever-clever avant-garde film.

It was marginally interesting as a take on the psychosexual underpinnings of the Batman/Joker relationship, even that seemed dull and obvious: certainly it's been done better elsewhere.

In the film's favor: loved the dizzying, everywhere-all-at-once rush of the closing credits. And the music was fantastic--superbly unsettling.

And there was a visual thing I dug: Miike used a lot of different film stocks and exposures here, but the main narrative thread had a saturate, under-lit look that, coupled with the framing and the grim industrial sets, gave it the feel of a 1970s exploitation film--low-budget and slightly dank. To quote MST3K: "Every frame of this movie looks like someone's last known photograph."
 
 
Seth
17:50 / 21.06.04
The music's by Karera Musication (in other words, the Boredoms minus Eye). It's about fifty quid on import, but can be found on Soulseek (that's where I got it in the end). It's completely brilliant, easily stands up on its own.

I saw Visitor Q for the first time last week. Heh heh heh. I must be getting totally desensitised to Miike's mania, I hardly batted an eyelid throughout. More please!
 
 
Kiss My Apocalips
23:07 / 10.07.04
Watch Ichi and expect nothing more than a big sick laugh. More fun than an open casket funeral.
But then you should check out MiikeĀ“s more subtle works like Agitator, The Bird People in China or Ley Lines. And, by the way, Audition ist the r e a l Killer.
 
  
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