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Do you like to be liked?

14:26 / 30.05.03

On a management course last week one of my "problems" as identified by the course leader was that I like to be liked by the people in my department.

It was deemed much better to be respected, which I am, but he also implied that it was a much more professional situation if a manager is feared rather than liked.

My problem is that I can't really separate who I am at work with who I am outside work, and as it comes natural to me to enjoy being "liked" (which is such a crap descriptive word) that naturally carries over into work.

What about you? In general, do you like to be liked? Or do you not really care?

14:44 / 30.05.03

Course leader been reading Machiavelli, has he?

I think the greatest issue with liking to be liked is that you can find yourself flummoxed when you find yourself dealing with someone who does not, cannot, will not like you. It's been quite hard for me, personally, to deal with the fact that not everybody is going to like me, no matter how much effort I expend—and that wasted effort to ingratiate myself burned up energy that I could've used to just get the job done and get the fuck out.

There's a dark side to "being liked," too, in that it can sometimes serve as a substitute for actually bringing anything of value to the work relationship. That's a lesson I learned too late, and it was a rough one: that I wasn't going to be able to skate by on charm forever, and would eventually have to achieve something. By the time I figured it out, I had developed unfortunate habits of laziness, of which I am still trying to rid myself.

I'm trying to teach my daughter that lesson early, so far without success—because she is so goddam cute and perky that she, at this point in her life, anyway, can get by almost entirely on charm.

The ultimate "likes to be liked" cautionary tale is, I think, Bill Clinton. Immensely emotionally needy, in a position of great power, actually got very little done because he wanted to please everyone and ended up pleasing no one.

14:45 / 30.05.03

As problems go Sax, that's not a bad one to have. You want people to like you?! WTF is this course leader talking about?!! That's not a problem.

In terms of management I was under the impression that whatever worked was good. If it works for you and your teams, then don't worry too much about it. I'm sure if you being nice gives cause to someone trying to take libertes with you, you soon pick them up on it - don't you?

It is an odd situation though and one I'm glad to say I'm not in. That is to say, I don't care if people don't like me, but then everyone who I see on a daily basis is nice and we all get on so I don't see the problme. If there was someone who didn't like me, then I'd not care so much because why bother? However if it was an employee I can see how this is different, but really, so?

So if you start instilling a bit of fear and respect into your employees then they'll like you less and that's a good thing because why? I think you're right to want to be liked everywhere both in work and out, as it makes for an easier life and a better time overall.

Bollocks to that shitty little management guru.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:52 / 30.05.03

I guess the notion is that you might be unwilling to take unpopular decisions because you want to be popular. It's fair enough up to a point, though I suspect that you probably still would - for example - fire someone if necessary; you just prefer, whenever possible to be cooperative rather than hierarchical.

It's interesting, though, this thing about separating the person outside work from the person inside work. That's how the truly ghastly decisions get made - such as 'sure, we can sell these arms to that country and they'll use 'em for self-defense'...

The Natural Way

15:03 / 30.05.03

Jack: there are loads of jobs that require charm and little else. Don't worry. In my experience, people with excellent social skills seem to thrive in the workplace. Esp women.

15:22 / 30.05.03

I like to be liked, and I love to be loved.
I think for a long time I thrived on attempting to be everything to everyone. And then I self destructed.

I guess in work, on a surface level it feels easier if everyone does like me, although as you and others point out it can produce its own difficulties. That course leader talks poo poo though when he says that its better to be feared. I feel its far better to operate with an awareness of these inner drives, and compensate when you need to. I'm all about trust and good atmospheres etc.

Personally (and beware, this may start to sound mawkish - which is another way of giving you permission to disregard all that I am about to say, and not hold any viewpoints you find stupid against me, and hence continue, perhaps, to like me), yes,
personally, if I feel robust within myself, i.e. confident, self accepting etc., its easier for me to assert myself at work.

I get quite disturbed when I do come up against people who supposedly don't give a tinkers cuss. They unnerve me.

15:39 / 30.05.03

I like the people I like to like me. I don't give a funk if the people I don't don't.

I've always assumed that pretty much everyone felt pretty much like that. Sintresting.

16:04 / 30.05.03

Like most Western women, I like to be liked; in fact I once read that that was typical--women (at least in anglo america) are typically socialized to focus on being liked and men on getting respect. Being liked is also basically required of people in a hierarchically arranged social structure who don't have power, because networking is accomplished through likeability lines--that is if they have any ambition to climb. The more power you have, or perceive yourself to have, the more you can afford not to be liked, although old habits can die hard. Clinton got where he was by being likeable and liked, and seeking to make himself likeable and liked. If you perceive yourself as relatively powerless, being liked may be a matter of survival. To have the supreme self-confidence, or is it arrogance, that you don't care if you are liked or not is seductive but troublesome to me somehow. I'm not exactly sure I can articulate it, but it feels like its delusory for most people, unless they really have achieved a fully aware buddhist kind of detachment from it all, which most people haven't, so they just strike me as naive or deluded. Which may be compensatory snobbery on my part.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:56 / 30.05.03

In my experience, people with excellent social skills seem to thrive in the workplace.

Ah. That explains my employment history.

Do I like to be liked... well, yeah. Used to be because I needed the approval, now it's just because I see how fucking miserable people make each other, day in, day out, and simply want no part of it. I find I generally get more done if I try and co-operate with the people around me. My political and idealogical beliefs generate enough friction between me and the world without needing to create new conflicts. I've come to regard constant random antagonism as a sign of being someone who cares less about their principles and ideas and more about the sound of their own voice.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

20:58 / 30.05.03

I once read that a person either wants power or popularity. This is obviously a very simplistic statement which denies the power that popularity has. But when viewed from a motivational perspective, the person who needs to be desired, is distinct from the person who desires power. The person who desires power can use personality as a tool, it would be very rare if people associated power with being liked (unless they’re in the army). So to some extent I believe that people who desire popularity over power may shy away from more, managerial type jobs. Popularity usually succeeds on an inter level hierarchy but rarely from top to bottom and less so vice-versa. To care about what others think of you, is probably a hindrance if you are in an authoritative position.
I think that another question may be that: Is a need for popularity not just a representation of a more primeval need/desire not to be attacked?

21:50 / 30.05.03

Robert M. Pirsig had an interesting theory on this in his book 'Lila' (the sequel to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence') Panarchy, that the reason people want to be popular is because we are social beings and want as many people to know us (and like us) as possible- the more postive social connections we have, the better we feel.

I am sure it's more complicated than that, I will try to find it.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

22:28 / 30.05.03

Ellis 3, you make a good point. And I also believe that many aspects of subservience may appear like we want to be popular. It is very interesting that subservient people can get what they want.
It seems that it can be very difficult to say “no” to a subservient person. I participated in an acting class briefly, and we learnt how powerful a subservient manner was. The flattery of ego, the sense of superiority is a heady intoxicant. Blunt ascertains of power can appear impetuous in a climate of so-called civility. However the modern workplace is an inherently fascist structure, top to bottom, and those who seem to eschew the desire to “need” popularity, seem to succeed. Like you say, it is more complex than this and needs further thought.

05:44 / 31.05.03

Being liked can get boring.

Fuck you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

08:48 / 31.05.03

I've recently come across someone who doesn't like me - actively, aggressively, passionately doesn't like me.

A particularly weird experience, especially given that her animosity seems to be a conscious decision based on the fact that I turned down her advances one drunken evening.

Next day, out of the blue, she hated me. I found - and continue to find - the situation somewhat bewildering and, more to the point, bloody tiresome.

Ah yes, she also claims that she spurned me.

The Natural Way

10:02 / 31.05.03

Oh, shit, Jack, I didn't mean to imply that your daughter has nothing going for her except nicey-niceness! Sorry!

Just want to big up the people people.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:09 / 31.05.03

Ragel "Rainbow Brite of the apocalypse" Hinewater
Being liked can get boring.

Whereas being hated is a non-stop cavalcade of fun and laughter, sometimes with ferrets.

Fuck you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think someone needs a hug.

To answer the question in the abstract, out of the two it's more important to me to be liked in my personal life than work, but ideally I would prefer to be liked in both. I don't agree with that whole 'ruling through fear' thing. I don't think you can intimidate someone enough to try and exceed their limits, which you can do if you're liked, though not ever having had to manage anyone, what do I know?

14:24 / 31.05.03

Being liked is an unusual experience for me. I don't go out of my way to be disliked, or anything - I just don't seem to inspire people to like me, particularly. Thus, I am not sure if I like to be liked - I think generally it makes me uneasy.

14:41 / 31.05.03

"I don't think you can intimidate someone enough to try and exceed their limits, which you can do if you're liked..."

I dunno'. I think it might depend on the workplace environment. For awhile I worked as a shipper in a window and door factory, and the management there was based largely on intimidation and fear. After awhile I was head of LTL (light truck load) shipping and I tried to be friendly with my small crew (a mere 3 people) as opposed to the typical fear based bullshit that was the norm. Well, to make a long story short, it totally backfired and blew up in my face. In frustration I ended up resigning the position and going back to loading trucks going to the company's warehouses in other cities--a job without a supervisor or crew. Much easier to deal with.

Whisky Priestess

17:10 / 31.05.03

I was forced by my "wanted to be liked and respected and have power" somewhat sinister ex-boss to work with a "life-coach" at work, and while most of what she said appeared to be unhelpful bullshit, she did do an exercise that divided you into one of three types: the "like me" type, the "respect me" and the "help me". Most people are apparently "like me"s. Margaret Thatcher would be a good example of the "respect me" and Marilyn Monroe often played characters that were "help me"s - and was also seen as something of a victim in (of?)her own life.

Not sure that helps. But in Aldous Huxley's Point Counter Point, there is an oleaginous and infantile magazine editor who works his "help me" charm with women, but also tries to employ women who are likely to fall in love with him, because it makes them work harder and better for less money. If you believe in someone or something you will try much harder for it/them. And more to the point, the feared manager will not be rescued from a burning building by his staff. The liked one will.