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Underground > Laboratory >

SIlicon in humans (not silicone)

07:46 / 30.05.03

Just curious as a new member, with a somewhat vested interest in this from a scientific point of view, what do you all think about using silicon in humans i.e. in pharmaceuticals or prosthetics (not breast implants though). I'm not talking about a materials with lots of silicon - oxygen bonds but about replacing a carbon atom in a molecule for silicon.

ANyhow, would be curious what y'all think.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

08:05 / 30.05.03

I don't understand, Doc. Why would you want to do this? What does it achieve? Why would drugs with silicon in place of carbon have the same properties?

Silicon is much harder to get and more expensive than carbon...

08:16 / 30.05.03

Silicon is 2nd most abundant element in earths crust after oxygen and not really all that hard to get too - honestly.

Both are in the same group of the periodic table and as such have amazingly similar properties, but with some useful and crucial differences. You can do things with silicon that you could never do with carbon (make a diol for instance) and it has subtle differences in bond lengths and physical properties to its carbon analogues which enable it to be used to for instance increase its lipohillicity (ability to cross membranes) for instance when compared with the C material.

12:16 / 30.05.03

has subtle differences in bond lengths and physical properties to its carbon analogues which enable it to be used to for instance increase its lipohillicity (ability to cross membranes) for instance when compared with the C material - doc bob

So what would that allow you to achieve, in practical terms? Some new wonder in vivo drug-delivery systems or something?
And what's a 'diol'?

13:43 / 30.05.03

Big problem with lots of pharmaceuticals is that they are very inefficient at crossing mebranes due to poor interactions with the mebranes they need to penetrate to work.

It would mean that you could (re)design a drug that would for instance cross the blood brain barrier more easily and thus have a greater efficacy. Potentially very useful for treating e.g. brain diseases.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

13:55 / 30.05.03

If the technology works, I don't see any reason not to use it, if that's what you mean. I'm not qualified to express a scientific opinion. On the other hand, the issue of getting high-quality silicon seems more vexed than you suggest:

"Experts also foresee an important silicon shortage problem as a result of the increasing demand. While the PV silicon production will be dependent on the electronic industry discard there can be no module cost reduction chances." From A UNIDO Document here. (see also UNIDO homepage)

Does this problem only apply to chip and PV silicon?

14:12 / 30.05.03

yes indeed. They are talking about single crystal silicon grown in huge long columns and then sliced by an enormous cutter. The silicon used therin is grown from a single point crystal and then extruded by a fancy named method and is very expensive and time consuming and must be perfect or the electonics will not work.

Actually getting the Si as an element pure is very trivial and cheap - its getting it into a single crystal form that worries the semiconductor and solar cell industries.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

14:41 / 30.05.03

In which case I am delighted to be able to tell you that I understand nothing about your question! It seems like a no-brainer - silicon could be a useful component in drugs and therapies. Cool beans.

Are there potential negatives, or were you hoping to uncover a latent pharmaceutical/biochemical genius lurking here? Not that it's impossible, but...

22:45 / 01.06.03

Sorry, I'm going to have more questions than I have answers on this topic.

The whole thing interests me but I can't seem to find much information about this area of research online, do you have any specific examples that you know of so that I can get some background info? Share the knowledge.

Initial thoughts however. Can silicon be broken down easily in the body after it has been used to deliver the active drug? I know that all of the fuss about silicone was something to do with this problem but I'm not sure if it's only the S-O bonds that made it so difficult. Since the body deals with carbon based compounds I would have thought that introducing silicon into the equation would create more problems than it solved.

The other thing, can silicon be so easily substituted into existing carbon compounds? As you pointed out, they are fairly similar chemically but in complex (drug type) compounds I would imagine that the differences would screw quite nastily with the structure.

And this is why I love Pharmacology. It's just a pity I'm only in my first year. Ask me in 2 years time after they've covered all the interesting stuff!