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Act III

 
 
netbanshee
14:01 / 25.05.03
Lifted from the Agonist covering an article from the Washington Post...

The Bush administration, alarmed by intelligence suggesting that al Qaeda operatives in Iran had a role in the May 12 suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, has cut off once-promising contacts with Iran and appears ready to embrace an aggressive policy of trying to destabilize the Iranian government, administration officials said.

Senior Bush administration officials will meet Tuesday at the White House to discuss the evolving strategy toward the Islamic republic, with Pentagon officials pressing hard for public and private actions that they believe could lead to the toppling of the government through a popular uprising, officials said.

A major factor in the new stance toward Iran consists of what have been called "very troubling intercepts" before and after the Riyadh attacks, which killed 34 people, including nine suicide bombers. The intercepts suggested that al Qaeda operatives in Iran were involved in the planning of the bombings.


Well, this seems to be one of the 1st signs of the US abandoning the methods of diplomacy and cooperation with Iran. Seemed that there was a chance to come to terms with the nuclear issue, but now since it appears that al Qaeda has some pull in there, it's time to say fuck all. So diplomacy wasn't really ever happening now, was it? I mean, one strike you're out?

This also points to another issue as well... How successful were any of the previous campaigns? Where's Saddam or Osama? How about proof of WMD's. Seems like justification is becoming the casualty nowadays and its looking all too familiar...
 
 
Baz Auckland
20:41 / 25.05.03
Could the US really do anything to Iran short of nuking them? Unlike Iraq, Iran has a pretty big army and isn't really suffering like Iraq under sanctions... I thought they were going to go for Syria, as a smaller and closer target...

With luck, they're just trying to keep everyone paranoid for the election and not actually going to kill us all...
 
 
SMS
23:28 / 25.05.03
Could the US really do anything to Iran short of nuking them?

Sure we can. War and passivity are not the only two forms of negotiation. However, by Bush's reasoning (and I agree), the minute war is taken off the table as a possibility, the opposing side (in this case, a horribly oppressive theocracy) has free reign to do whatever the hell they want.* I want a little bluster coming from the White House to any nation that harbors al Qaeda. I do not want war with Iran. I cannot imagine that we could possibly do to them what we did in Iraq without igniting a war of civilizations. I also do not want my country, the most powerful on earth, to sit by and say, "gee guys, we'd really like it if you didn't support those folks who are trying to bring America to her knees. It might be kinda nice, too, if you treated your citizens better."


*A comeback from this would be that we made that argument in the case of Iraq but Bush had been planning it for a year. "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out," is the quote I heard.
 
 
Baz Auckland
00:16 / 26.05.03
But given that Iran has been slowly, and on their own, moving away from the theocracy of the revolution are threats of bombing necessary? The moderates have support, and they may well be able to bring about popular change without the USA threatening them. I worry that these threats will just kill the moderate movement in Iran, and make things worse and more reactionary.

Weren't North and South Korea moving towards a peace settlement last year? They marched under the same flag at the olympics etc. Now things have gone downhill, not solely because of the USA's threats, but threatening to nuke a country doesn't just seems to make the leaders very defensive and unopen to change...
 
 
bjacques
13:25 / 26.05.03
"Popular uprising?" With what? That 1953 "uprising" was a military coup and it almost didn't come off. Iran looks almost like two countries--one theocracy and one limited parliamentary state. Church ultmately trumps state there, but there's enough political sense to support a progressive faction. Khatami has a little leeway but the clerics undercut him by proxy, arresting liberal journalists and academics etc. Clinton at least tried to encourage him and his faction by making peace overtures. Bush isn't interested at all. Iran helps the radical Palestinians because a) the Palestinians are fellow Arabs after all and b) they'll do anything to nobble the otherwise seemingly unstoppable Israeli hawks.

But I suspect al-Qaeda are well-enough embedded in Arab countries they're pretty hard to root out. At least one faction in any given host country probably support them, even if the government as a whle doesn't. Also, al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups work at such a low level they don't need too much outside help--money, guns and explosives, sure, and those last two aren't hard to come by in the Middle East--overall these groups are low maintenance. They're also as indigeous as Mafia. These factors make them hard to control. The US and Israel, in claiming that somebody can turn these groups on and off like a faucet, are being disingenuous because anyone with a brain realizes this.

The only way a "popular uprising" could possibly succeed would be in a Bay of Pigs-style operation, with an army of mostly exiles landed in some quiet but not too remote corner of the country, supported by US (and UK?) airlifts and bombing. Forget it.

A lot of the above is apocryphal, or at least wildly inaccurate, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I refuse to defer to Stratfor, who're pimping for the hawks under cover of "cold realism."
 
 
SMS
00:44 / 27.05.03
Weren't North and South Korea moving towards a peace settlement last year? They marched under the same flag at the olympics etc.

I may be mistaken about this, but I think that, during this same period, North Korea was secretly working on their nuclear capabilities, breaking the agreement that Clinton had been involved with. As much as N. Korea would like us to think that the problem is between them and the U.S., we have less interest in whether North Korea has nuclear weapons than South Korea and China have.

The problem that the any nation has to deal with is a tension between the problem of appeasement and the problem of escalation. It might be said that WWI started because no nation was unwilling to appease its opponents (as well as entangling alliances, utopian dreams, etc), and WWII started because every nation was too willing to appease the bad guys.
 
 
halfcent
04:00 / 27.05.03
I found this on one of the message boards I surf though.

" Bin Laden has issued fatwas declaring all shia to be apostates and idolators and saying that muslims should kill them at every opportunity.

Iran is run by shi'ites. Iran is probably the one country in the world even LESS likely than Iraq to work with bin Laden."

I must admit that I do not have the source for the statement. However it would seem base on that information that Bin Laden and
and The Irans would not work together at all.
 
 
Nematode
12:13 / 27.05.03
Bjacques, I'm a bit doubtful about the people of Pakistan being arab but I'm damn sure the Iranians aren't.
 
 
bjacques
00:38 / 28.05.03
Yep. Sorry about that. I should have said "fellow Muslims," even though that would be still be stretching it a bit. Iranians aren't even ethnic Arabs. But they are known to support Hezbollah, who operate in Lebanon and Israel and now southern Iraq.

But I agree that bin Laden and the Iranian government wouldn't be especially close. Anyway, bin Laden can't issue a fatwa--only clerics can, and because Islam doesn't have a central authority like the Vatican, fatwas aren't automatically obeyed by every Muslim. Saddam Hussein had a few pet clerics who issued fatwas against the invading UK/US force, but I don't think it noticeably swelled the ranks of defenders. Salam Pax had a funny story about the "creeps" who came from Syria to be martyrs against the invaders. The locals chased them away with stones because all the "martyrs" accomplished was to get the locals shot at.

Pakistan?



Pakistan?
 
 
bjacques
00:38 / 28.05.03
oops.
 
 
netbanshee
01:06 / 01.02.13
*BUMP*

Don't mind me as I roll through some archives, but I found this interesting to read about 10 years later. I came across it while searching for The Agonist. Still a pretty decent site these days.

It's interesting to see some similar saber rattling, kabuki theatre and, in many ways, lack of high-level change in the situation.
 
  
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