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Moderator help required. Benedictus! What to do about a doppelganger?

23:20 / 21.05.03

I didn't know which moderator to contact, so I sufficed with aiming for a general question in the Policy.

I have engaged in a couple of PMs with <[benedictus!]> from this thread, as I found his posting neither funny nor clever. Really, this sort of thing has been done better in the past.

Debate away on the merits of my postings, but one thing which can't be taken away from me is that I am wholeheartedly serious about what I decide to share with you people, as I am sure the main majority also is. And when someone comes along, and is blatantly copious, for no other apparent reason than to mock, this naturally upsets me.

Now, I asked benedictus to explain away, while making it clear that I didn't find it too amusing, and in order to make sure he understood, I intimated that I would ask for help from a moderator, to identify him, if he continued in the same vein as he has established himself in said thread.

He defended himself vehemently, even throwing _pin's and Rizla's names in, as proof of the fiction-suit's existence since September 2001.

I would kindly ask someone who has any understanding of how, well, technology works and establish, that benedictus! did indeed have the name settled since September 2001.

Feel free to PM me for details in the PMs he has sent to me so far, and to verify if he is indeed a copycat.

01:36 / 22.05.03

And Benedictus's actions are worse than the horrible insults and abuse that you've heaped upon other members of the board because...?

I'm sorry, Chrome, but I have a feeling you're not going to find a lot of sympathy here.

It's probably best to just keep your sense of humor about it; don't rise to the bait, and eventually the joke will run its course. But if you scream and cry and wet your knickers, you only make it worse for yourself.

08:26 / 22.05.03

Oh really?

My, how the double standards run in this family.

It has nothing to do with the heaps of abuse I have delivered in the past, no, it's about someone who consciously set out to affect someone negatively, for a laugh -- with a name I have invented, because it is mine in real life. I reiterate, not for sympathy's sake, I have always been passionate and sincere about my belief's, and I don't take kindly to someone who wants nothing more than to lie and decieve by using a property, which is originally mine, delivered in a manner which no one else does, blatantly trying to mock me.

It's about what's right.

A principle is a principle.

08:59 / 22.05.03

I'm a tad confused here. Benedictus's posts in that thread seem relatively innocuous - unless you're claiming 'Captain Yossarian', the thread's starter, is his fictionsuit? Are you saying the whole thread's a pisstake of you, or just Benedictus's 'bowel movement' post?

We're The Great Old Ones Now

09:15 / 22.05.03

And by the way, changing your name to 'Jack Gear' doesn't make this thread any easier to understand, and does make me more likely to ignore your problem, given your fondness for fictionsuit-related fun.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:25 / 22.05.03

Chrome... honestly, I can see why you're pissed off. But can you just realise you may have pissed others off previously? Not necessarily this guy, but that's not the point.

Jack's right. Keep your sense of humour. If you figure it's a troll, don't feed it! Making a big palaver isn't gonna make it better. Quite the reverse. Argue with it via pm if you feel the need, though I'd advise against that course of action, too.

Put simply, if nobody had realised that benedictus ain't you, then they have now, due to the very existence of this thread. So problem solved. No?

10:26 / 22.05.03

Double standards? Now *that's* funny. I seem to remember you doing exactly the same thing as benedictus in the past.

12:45 / 22.05.03

Thanks for proving my point, Chrome. That's the way to take the moral high ground, eh?

The Berbers have a saying, son: What you have put into your kettle comes afterwards into your spoon.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:21 / 22.05.03

So, let me be sure I understand this. ""Jack Gear" is "Bendt Chromeo", right? And Benedicitus is not Bendt Chromeo? But is using a name Bendt Chromeo has used in the past? And B.C wants proof that he has used that user profile before?

Wow.

I can see how this could get confusing. Hooever, the "Jack Gear" thing sort of demonstrates that you can't really control what other people choose to do with their ficsuits, and also that you can't have two ficsuits with the same name. Hoom.

So, I think two questions here. Is b.n.d.c.t.s trying to "pass off" as you? I'd say not. Is he taking the piss out of you? I'd say yes, but that's something reasonably within the remit of Barbelith. Is he a multiple suit of somebody else? If so, then he should be shut down, but that's administration, not because of his actions. Do his actions justify exploring his personal details in order to establish who exactly he is? I don't think *anything* does, except possibly board-level persecution or persecution of individuals off the board. Barbelithers have the right to hide their email addresses, not share their personal details, and so on. b.n.d.c.t.s has been *registered* since Sep 01, but has apparently only made 8 posts, which suggests spare suit but doesn't tell us what name he was registered under in sep 01....

So, I don't think b.n.d.c.t.s is guilty of anything except mocking you and possibly of being somebody's sock puppet, which should be attended to if true, but is not a huge crime. Which is rude and which would probably lead to warnings and then deletion in the Revolution, but I'm not going to use my status as an administrator to start making suggestions like that in topic areas where I am not a moderator unless it s made very clear a) that it is appropriate to do so and b) that it is within my remit to do so, neither of which is currently clear. Certainly, being mocked is not outwith the remit of Barbelith, although I happily agree that the way b.n.d.c.t.s is doing it lacks style.

But maybe I misunderstand. could you explain exactly what it is that you want, and why? And b.n.d.c.t.s, do you want to join in here?

13:55 / 22.05.03

I don't think there's really any evidence to suggest that Chrome and captain yossarian are the same person, is there?

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:21 / 22.05.03

Yeah, that's the easy part. Check out the "Not Far From Heaven" thread in the Film, TV and Theatre forum. Was by Bendt Chromeo, is now from Jack Gear. The "9/11 and Invisibles" was by Captain Yossarian, is now by Jack Gear. They are three different uisernames of the same login. So I think the complaint is a) that CY/BC/JG was also at one point called Benedictus, and b) that the suit currently called Benedictus is taking the piss out of BC/CY/JF.

14:35 / 22.05.03

Rrrrrrrrrrrrreally? I'm still seeing Captain Yossarian as originator and first post in the "9-11 Warning in The Invisibles" thread... or are you using your special Moderator-Vision?

I wouldn't have pegged Yossarian as one of Bendt's sock-puppets, myself. He's an excitable fellow, sure, but he does a lot of newbie-type stuff (starting two additional Matrix threads when there's already one going, for instance) that our bread-shunning friend has surely moved beyond.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:44 / 22.05.03

Mea culpa. So, Jack Gear is Bendt Chromeo, Captain Yossarian is somebody else and Benedictus is somebody else again. Gotcha. And Yossarian is someone else again again.

16:36 / 22.05.03

Nick, I can tell you haven't been paying attention, but who can blame you? We have wildly different wants and needs, & interests which usually don't cross. Not since the days of the thread Angel, have I had any multiple-fictionsuit-mash-up fun. I have consistently stayed this fictionsuit.

I would say this thread, and most of the reactions prove my point, which I was sort of hammering away further still by becoming Hack Fear, namely: Unless you're a trusted friend, the principles are different. Unless you know someone personally, will you go the extra mile to clarify matters.

I don't think benedictus! - now b.n.d.c.t.s - is funny; nor do I approve of him copying my name, right down to the exclamation mark. And after having contacted him to either come forward with his main fictionsuit, or to cease posting under that particular name, when he insisted that benedictus! was a product of that time and that he has always used it -- while throwing in _pin's and Rizla's name to the mix as friends who could provide the correctness of said statement.

So, if this means that you will allow him to continue, him and you fully knowing that he has caused offense to me, then I still say that Barbelith is full of double standards. Full of shit, even. And I still say this doesn't have to be.

Jack, go somewhere else, what your reasoning lacks in is that it takes more than one to cause offense, you know damn well how co-operative many posters have been in the past to keep the 'fun' going.

This doesn't excuse an attack on my person.

16:55 / 22.05.03

And yet the issue you still don't seem to want to address is that you yourself have aped the names of others on the board in the not-too-distant past with, apparently, no concern whatsoever.

Makes it kinda hard to give a flying fuck about your complaints now, even without the "caused offence to me" bit (which, after all your behaviour, is utterly laughable).

Oh yeah, here's the other thing: when you were doing this, the only action taken against you was that you were asked to stop. There was never the suggestion of anything more serious happening to your suit because of it. If people are prepared to let *you* be when you decide to play funky games, I shouldn't imagine that there's a chance in hell that any action's going to be taken against anyone else for doing the same thing.

It's got nothing to do with being part of the Big Barbelith Family, Chrome, and everything to do with not being a prick to other people then expecting those very same people to care when you think *you're* being done an injustice. But then, I suspect you know all this already and are only bringing this subject up in order to create a fresh brouhaha.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:00 / 22.05.03

Got to be said, dude, I doubt that anyone here even *remembers* that you used to be called benedictus. I didn't, and my memory for Barbelith is better than many's...chances are that this one, who has, after all, already changed his name, will leave you alone if you don't rise (assuming his aim is to get a rise), just as you will eventually change your name from imitations of Jack Fear or Knodge did from the Haus of Vengeance. It doesn't sound like he *was* passing off, just taking the piss, and I really don't know what we even *can* do about that, much less what we should do. If it is definitely somebody's sock puppet, though, we can ask Tom to delete it, I guess...

What did your and his PMs say, HF/JG/BC?

23:03 / 22.05.03

I didn't remember you as Benedictus! either, BC, on-board or in email - just Bendt. Given that you appear to be the only individual who does recall your ever using that name, could you provide some background? When and where have you called yourself Benedictus!

01:28 / 25.05.03

It was fairly obvious to me, as someone with a reasonable familiarity with BC/Bendt's posts, that this poster was aping him. If it wasn't particularly obvious, the liberal use of ~~~~~~~~'s offered a further pointer.

If it transpires this was the Knodge, will you all be so happy/unconcerned? Didn't the aforementioned do the same to you, Haus? It's rather unpleasant, mildish stalking behaviour, at any rate. Whoever is doing it would be wise to stop, rather than risking exposure, I'd suggest.

That Bendt briefly called himself 'Jack/Hack Gear/Fear' was, I think, though I've no wish to speak for him, a rather oblique attempt at illustrating a point. I don't think he parodied the 'real' Jack either, did he?

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm factually/morally wrong at any point here.

02:44 / 25.05.03

Well, if we're talking Benedictus(!), then the sum total of his malicious "aping" appears to be a single one-line post - "I predict a major bowel movement for may the 25th". There are two more Benedictus(!) posts within the thread, but neither appears particularly BC-ish in tone or content.

If 'Benedictus!' is indeed BC's real meatspace name (and I commend his parents on the originality of incorporating an exclamation mark into their child's moniker), then that single post takes on a slightly more sinister hue (how does Benedictus(!) know BC's meatspace identity?) but it'd be necessary to prove this to at least some extent before Barbelith administrators could seriously intervene. I could equally legitimately claim, for example, that 'Duncan Falconer' is my meatspace name, and accuse the previous poster of harassment/persecution. Unless some other Barbeloid could reliably corroborate my meatspace name, my argument wouldn't be particularly convincing.

Given that we appear to be talking about a single line of text, when does "illustrating a point" parody shade into "aping" or "unpleasant, mildish stalking"? And what action, if any, should be taken at each 'level'?

Andrew C*** passing himself of as Haus

03:53 / 25.05.03

Whereas I can't see any real harm here, I also think that Haus and Ganesh are being quite hypocritical/patronising. (No insult intended.)

10:37 / 25.05.03

And I think Knowledge is being a bit of an arse (no insult intended).

15:41 / 25.05.03

I'm willing to give Bendt the benefit of the doubt here; however, I don't have any 'history' with him as you do Ganesh.

I also doubt Benedictus[!] will reappear.

16:21 / 25.05.03

"'History'" aside, Duncan, the point remains: when talking about a single comment (as appears to be the case here), when does "illustrating a point"/taking the piss become malicious "aping", and when does the latter shade into "unpleasant, mildish stalking"? And can anyone else recall BC using the name 'Benedictus!' on Barbelith? Is there a possibility that the unknown poster's choice of 'Benedictus!' could've been coincidence, or is this someone who knows BC from elsewhere?

Also, I may be reading the thread incorrectly, but I don't see any '~~~~~~~'s in Benedictus!'s posts. Have they been edited out?

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:05 / 25.05.03

Actually, isn't that the trademark of "Call me Tzaddi", formerly Rex City-Zen, and nought to do with Bendt or "Benedictus!"?

Put simply, moderators have no power to do anything about this. We have and will if necessary exercise our power to excise Carnal Knowledge's attempts to make Grant Morrison be his best friend, where they interfere with the business of Barbelith. We will remove the posts of his sock puppets. We don't have the power to force people to change their names, because Barbelith is supposed to function on a minimum of moderation. Because you are supposed to be grown-ups. If we can establish that "Benedictus!" is a sock puppet, we will alert Tom, who can wipe him. If it seems he is deliberatelty attempting to trick people into believing he is Bendt C., then we will have to work out what to do. Otherwise, I don't see that moderators should have the power to kill his suit.

Or are you arguing, Knodger and Bendt, that we should be able to do that? Do you want us to be able to destroy troll suits? Because that's a position we should consider and respect...

01:29 / 26.05.03

I could care either way. Benedictus used a lotta punctuation in his user name, be it ~~~'s or otherwise. Very few people do so here.

I'm not insisting on any action at all, far from it, simply defending an apparent (and fairly obviously do to me) attack on someone I rather like and have time for.

I hate when shit gets institutionalised.

ONLY NICE THINGS

02:19 / 26.05.03

That's nice, dear. And what would it be if we started wiping out suits because they upset people? Institutionalised? A tad?

See the problem?

06:32 / 26.05.03

This doesn't excuse an attack on my person...So, if this means that you will allow him to continue, him and you fully knowing that he has caused offense to me, then I still say that Barbelith is full of double standards. Full of shit, even. And I still say this doesn't have to be.

Get fucked. Runce too.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:50 / 26.05.03

Certainly if it's *just* about causing offene, then it doesn't seem like there has ever really been a policy of moderating outposts that cause offence. Therefore, as biok9 exemplified above, there doesn't seem to be a case for action on those grounds.

Duncan - yes, it is indubitably a bit stalkerish, assuming that the person knew that Bendt was called "Benedictus!", and as I say I'm afraid that I have no memory of that ever being the case personally. However, it was weird and stalkerish when Knodge did it, and he was not moderated for it either.

So, I don't really see a) what exactly is the complaint, or b) what Bendt would like to be done about it. A response to either of those questions would be welcome.

14:35 / 26.05.03

Again, did BC ever use the name 'Benedictus!' on Barbelith? Can anyone link to archived threads or even describe those threads in order to jog my memory? This is relevant because, if BC's meatspace name is 'Benedictus!' and he's never used this name on Barbelith, then the poster using that name here must have come by that knowledge by some other route.

So... where has the name 'Benedictus!' been used before?

21:07 / 26.05.03

I certainly don't remember it. It appears that chrome himself has no intention of providing any other answer, so - unless he wants to provide said answer - I suggest this be dropped.

11:07 / 27.05.03

I do actually recall that Chrome used the fictionsuit 'Benedictus Chrome' for a while, but I couldn't tell you exactly when.

It is perhaps less than surprising that Chrome got jumpy over this, but I don't think the problem is a serious one at the moment and think the best policy is to let it lie, and deal with it again if or when it resurfaces.