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critiquing Indymedia

 
 
Disco is My Class War
10:35 / 27.08.01
Hey kids. I'm currently researching critiques of Independent Media Centres and Indymedia generally -- criticism not from a right-wing perspective, hopefully, but from 'inside' the movement. (Huh. Yes, weird distinction, I know. Maybe we can talk about that.) Does anyone know of any articles about such a thing? Preferably not actually published on Indymedia either... I know some pretty big shitfights have been going on within the Indymedia lists, particularly about American-centrism and the 'protocol' documents new IMCs 'have' to sign to be part of the Indymedia linking system. But I haven't as yet seen anything public about it.

So, anyhow, what do you all think of Indymedia? Critically? Has anyone published stuff on it? Do you think it's 'branding' is a hindrance or a tool? Do you check it a lot, and if so, what sies do you check?

If anyone's prepared to, I may want to quote you in an article. (I'll post it up here, first, of course... Barbelith always gets first publishing rights to everything of mine )
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:36 / 28.08.01
The only example that springs to mind of someone criticising Indymedia was in Genoa (and this wasn't public, it's reached me via word-of-mouth): apparently the group of Italian filmmakers who made/are making a documentary about the G8 summit/protests fell out with them... Don't know the exact details, but it was something to do with the fact that Indymedia wanted to stream the filmmakers' footage on their site: when the filmmakers refused, Indymedia became uncooperative (although uncooperative with what I don't know, again should stress that this is pretty much hearsay).

What do I think of Indymedia? Hmm... I visit it fairly sporadically, although more often these days. I visit it more frequently when I know of something that's going on (like Genoa or MayDay) that I know/suspect the mainstream media won't cover, or will cover in a very biased manner. Of course, you'd have to be fairly naive not to realise that Indymedia has its own bias: the point is not merely that I am (or anybody else is) more likely to share that bias, but that the other side is put forward almost universally elsewhere. Indymedia isn't objective journalism, as it sometimes claimed, because objective journalism doesn't exist: it just offers a chance to hear a different side of the story.

Indymedia UK, the one I visit most often*, can occasionally be depressing, in that it reveals the British tendency towards political apathy when compared to some other countries. In addition, the format can be frustrating and even misleading: the 'newswire' on the right hand side of the page can be posted to by anyone, as far as I can tell, and so is much more frequently updated than the more official news stories in the centre, but also far less reliable. And prone to use and abuse by cranks, but then that's the price you pay for an open source newsfeed (er... is that the technical term?).

The one time I posted something there, after Mayday in London, I think the only response I got was from someone banging on about how the police did a great job. Freedom of speech, ra ra ra, but it did put me off a little... And the level of debate in the newswire reponse section is a bit low to say the least.

But hey, I'm fucking glad it exists.

*I also occasionally visit or have visited
the main site, Melbourne Indymedia, and Italia Independent Media Centre.

[ 28-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]
 
 
rizla mission
12:59 / 29.08.01
Surely the most obvious criticism of Indymedia would be that they have an established political agenda and are thus, for better or worse, likely to be fairly biased when it come to the objective reporting of news?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:05 / 29.08.01
Which makes them different from any other news source how?

Riz, read my post again. The point is that they're coming from a different angle. One which the mainstream media tends to universally ignore. This is a Good Thing, as long as you don't entertain any illusions about it being "objective" either...

[ 29-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]
 
 
Disco is My Class War
13:35 / 29.08.01
I guess that's what I meant by critiques from within the movement: it's a self-publishing tool, Rizla. It's open to anyone, at least some Indymedia sites are. Which is the point, I think: you are a journalist. Everyone is a journalist. Which takes out at least one level of 'political agenda'.

But I have also been hearing interesting rumours of 'protocols' one has to sign to become an Indymedia site. Which I'm not sure is the point.
 
 
BioDynamo
10:09 / 30.08.01
I'm involved with the Finnish Indymedia, Vaikuttava Tietotoimisto. A fairly small number of people contribute, but I feel the contributions have largely held a high standard. As the amount of attention the site receives has increased, the general level of the texts has dropped, especially since Genova.

I concider it a self-publicing-tool OF THIS MOVEMENT. The Indymedia I work with has never made any claims of giving a platform for ALL people. Anyone who starts shouting, demanding that something set up by us should serve everybody (and it seems especially Americans do this), is being plain silly, in my opinion.

For one, we stop fascist texts from being published. They started appearing as soon as the site was up, and they are being stopped. I hope the reason for this is obvious. If it is not, I don't have the patience to explain right now... Maybe later.

Also, anything that would get the Indymedia people sued is stopped, and the authors are asked to rephrase. This is for the sake of continuity. I hope this makes sense to people...

Yes, we also try to uphold a qualitative standard. The primary tool for this is the fact that soe texts are flagged to stay on the front page, where as some just 'drift by'. The decisions for this are made by the editors and maintainers of the site. Some texts are stopped because of extreme unclarity, or other aesthetic reasons.

I don't see any problem with this. I want the site I contribute to stays relevant, interesting, political, independent.

Some circles seem to confuse quality control with censorship. Again, this is plain dumb. We're not stopping anyone from publishing anything. We're just making decisions on what appears on the front page of something that we've set up, that is ENORMOUSLY more free than ANY mainstream media. If someone wants to publish a long, rambling text with no relevance what so ever to anything, they are free to do so. They can set up their own network of sites for crap texts.

If we tried to stop those sites too, that would be censorship. What is going on right now is self-determination. A big difference.

Of course, I'm in no way implying that my text has any relevance, or that it doesn't ramble... Maybe that's why I'm publishing it here, and not on Indymedia?

No, seriously, Barbelith is a good example of that also a bulletin-board environment with pre-control of what is published produces exellent texts. However, I think that the Zine, and other ways that the best texts are selected, compiled and published separately shows that not all people have the time, energy etc. to immerse themselves in the bulletin board process.

And Indymedia is a news-and-background-information-service, not a bulletin board. Different purpose, different working methods.

(Oh yeah, I'm only one person in the Indymedia process, and I'm not THAT involved. I mainly contribute. So none of this should be seen as any kind of official Indymedia statement. And of course, all individual fragments of the Indymedia whole have their own way of doing things. So they vary. Duh.)
 
 
Disco is My Class War
06:38 / 31.08.01
Hmmm.... yeah. I think I'd like to respond to that, BioDynamo... soon. (i have to go home now, can't respond in much depth.) I guess I'm interested in what the ramifications of having a particular logo are, or being linked to a particular network of sites which all have the same logo and that someone must approve before you link to them.

And I'm also interested n the English-cenrticity of Indymedia, especially when I feel it's important for Indymedia ites to be happening in places that are out of the way, Asian and African countries especially.
 
 
BioDynamo
10:42 / 31.08.01
In a hurry here too, but, yeah, language is an interesting issue. Indymedia Israel does Hebrew as it's main language, in Finland we do Finnish, in Sweden they do Swedish and englich, because Gothenburg raised a lot of attention.

Usually a local indymedia would be set up to meet a specific need, to convey info about a specific event. Usually those events will receive international attention. Thus, English figures widely.

I'm quite happy about the way the people in Italy did it, with everything being translated side-by-side during Genova.

Since our main audience is people in Finland, we'll mainly do our own stuff, translate the stuff of others, or sometimes publish in languages other that Finnish (and Swedish, also an official language in Finland).

As for the 'right to use the logo'... Hmm. I personally feel the people who want to do Indymedia should be interested in co-operating with other Indymedia people. If they don't, then they should set up their own network.

The ramifications of having a logo, of defining yourself.. Ahh, don't have time to get into that right now. If I said it briefly I'd probably sound like a real bastard. Maybe I do anyway.

In general, I think the logo-recognisability and definition is a good thing which brings some problems with it. But in general worth it. But we should discuss, yes.
 
 
rizla mission
13:33 / 31.08.01
quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:
Which makes them different from any other news source how?

Riz, read my post again. The point is that they're coming from a different angle. One which the mainstream media tends to universally ignore. This is a Good Thing, as long as you don't entertain any illusions about it being "objective" either...

[ 29-08-2001: Message edited by: The Flyboy ]


To clarify - I personally don't have any problem with Indymedia, and I don't have any illusions of news sources being objective, but it's still a point that would help to up your word count quite a bit when doing a deliberate critique.
 
 
Rage
03:17 / 03.09.01
quote:For one, we stop fascist texts from being published. They started appearing as soon as the site was up, and they are being stopped.

Good for you... stopping forms of thought from being expressed in text and all.
 
 
BioDynamo
11:07 / 03.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Rage:


Good for you... stopping forms of thought from being expressed in text and all.


No, we're not. We're not stopping the people who believe (in our context) that all russians are filth that should be exterminated, and publish private information about known leftist activists, from putting up their own websites and spreading this information that they feel is so essential.

Indymedia does NOT control the worldwide flow of information. If you think it does, you have a seriously warped view of the world.

If I send you an e-mail, and demand that you put it up on your web-page, and you don't, are you then stopping forms of thought being expressed in text?

No, because I can put up my own web-page. And you should, if I demanded you publish me, tell me to fuck off.

If you send a text to a newspaper, they are the ones who decide whether to publish it or not. Indymedia is WAY more open than any print media I know of. I'd say it is about as open as Barbelith. If I understand correctly, people attacking and abusing each other is not tolerated here. Promoting fascism and racism is abusing others. Indymedia can not stop that happening, but can decide it is unsuitable that it happen on Indymedia. To repeat: this is not censorship, it is self-determination.
 
 
Rage
00:29 / 04.09.01
Woah.

quote:Indymedia does NOT control the worldwide flow of information. If you think it does, you have a seriously warped view of the world.

If only it did. Hehe. I never said anything of this sort. Don't put words into my mouth... er... computer.

You said, and I quote:

quote:For one, we stop fascist texts from being published. They started appearing as soon as the site was up, and they are being stopped.

Then you said:

quote:We're not stopping the people who believe (in our context) that all russians are filth that should be exterminated, and publish private information about known leftist activists, from putting up their own websites and spreading this information that they feel is so essential.

So what fascist texts are you "stopping from being published," then... as you kindly put it?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:33 / 04.09.01
Er... Rage, what BioDynamo is saying is that people who want to promote such views are free to do so on their own websites. Just not on Indymedia. It's a form of news site, and one with a far more open policy to submissions than you'll find most places. But if they didn't exercise some form of editorial control, then the signal-to-noise ratio would border on the unworkable. A bit like it does here occasionally.
 
 
rizla mission
10:29 / 04.09.01
So, if it's 'a form of news site', would they also stop, say, anti-fascist / pacifist 'texts' from 'being published'?

..taking us back to the question of political bias?

I like what I've seen of Indymedia but, regardless of any open submissions policy, it's run by people with strong political views, and some speeches are clearly more free than others.

Just because we all (mostly) agree with Indymedia's angle on world events, it doesn't mean they're innocent of censoring views (eg 'fascist texts') that don't fit in..

I mean, if it was a right-wing news site censoring left-wing opinions, we'd all be really angry about it wouldn't we?

..does that make any sense?..
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:15 / 04.09.01
It's more of a definition distinction: you don't "censor" things other people submit to be put on your website/in your publication... If I sent Tom a zine article and he didn't put in on the site for whatever reason, that wouldn't be censorship. Would it?
 
 
rizla mission
21:33 / 04.09.01
OK, censorship's the wrong word. I'm just suggesting that Indymedia may be accused of publishing things that agree with their political stance in preference to things which don't..
 
  
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