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Cracking the Conspiracy Code.

17:48 / 14.08.01

I posted a week ago and said that I was considering a conspiracy theory thread, and then THEY made me forget all about it.

Seriously, though, I am quite interested in the ways people differentiate between 'conspiracy' theories. Almost everybody here believes at least one conspiracy theory, and they can often be pretty much proved to be true. The CIA were founded with many Nazi members, for instance.

(Google Links to Project Paperclip)

But then, there are people who seem to 'go too far.'
For instance,

five.org seems worrying, we all know about David Icke, and, well, this guy Grant Morrison seems a little odd...

How do you evaluate the conspiracy theories you believe in? How do you differentiate between believing something plausible, dismissing something off-the-wall, and everything in between?

And what's your favourite conspiracy theory, and can you link to it?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

16:04 / 15.08.01

But is the point that a lot of people don't/can't evaluate what they hear and tend to believe it blindly and dogmatically in an attempt to stay in control?

Halfway through 'You Are Being Lied To' and have just read an article about how the school system (it's about America but I'd say it applies to the UK too) teaches kids to remember and parrot facts, not think critically. And this would seem to be an accurate description of a conspiracy theorist- Able to tell you where everyone was standing when Kennedy got shot but unable to evaluate the evidence in a meaningful way.

How do I rate stuff. Primarily I use the fuckup factor. In order to pull off this supposed theory, would it require people to have extraordinary powers of ESP, strength, etc? Would it require a statistically huge number of coincidences? Would it need human beings that never make mistakes or have a plan for every single contingency? If yes, then it goes in my 'extremely unlikely' file, which I call 'Laila' for short.

Something like the Kennedy assassination, where all you need is some disgruntled mafia bloke hiding in the shadows, then I can believe we aren't being told the truth.

18:44 / 17.08.01

Every conspiracy is either more or less extensive & significant than it seems.

17:19 / 18.08.01

when would people ssay there was a conspiracy BOOM, and what do you think started it? the 90s seemed particularly Conspiracy obssessed, perhaps as fallout from Reagan / Bush years.

It seems to have some connection to the massive popularity boom of postmodern theory, which also posits a mobile "us-vs-them" conflict played out in politics, culture, and technology. ("they're entertainment is making us into capitalist slaves," and so forth)

Sometimes I like to think of Danny Casalaro, who was working on The Octopus, as a visionary thinker inventing contemporary conspiracy theory.

Now conspiracy theories are a bit "played" though paranoia has taken newer turns (Marketing for tots, etc.)

So who do you think are are "innovators" in the field? And how did it come about, specificallyin our time?

Ganesh

20:05 / 18.08.01

There exists a bottomless pit of conspiracy theorising. We talked about this in some depth at the last place; I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it all again.

08:57 / 19.08.01

Only four posts?

THEY have got to you haven't they?

What started the conspiracy theory boom? I'd suggest it was the usual way boosm occur - things start happening in the 'underground' for instance Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus! Trilogy, a veritable compendium of conspiracy theory - and then get picked up and popularised in the mainstream (the X files, even (gasp) the Invisibles)

It's not postmodern theory in my opinion; it's pulp novels, Fox tv and comic books.

Oh and Loz - it wasn't a disgruntled Mafia man - it was the Cubans, the Russians, the Military-Industrial complex who were worried he was going to reveal they were reverse-engineering UFOs, Marilyn Monroe, Conrad Bremen, Ward J Littel, Kemper Boyd, Pete Bondurant, Sinatra, Allan Dulles, about 50 cuckolded husbands, J Edgar Hoover... sheesh.

Anyone would think it was easy being a conspiracy theorist

14:33 / 20.08.01

Conspiracy theories have been around for ages and ages; it's only recently people have considered them worth mapping.

As I type this, the production supervisor guy just announced we've gotten four PAGES of ads from the "Eternal Life Church" telling Sun readers how the Constitution will be repudiated, there will be a National Sunday Law, and that will result in chaos and disaster for major American cities. There's a hidden cabal of Satanists or something behind our downlfall, I'm sure.
Weird, when these things happen.

23:46 / 20.08.01

I don't think I believe in conspiracies anymore. I believe in "The System", though, and listening to/pretending to believe in conspiracy theories can teach us things about The System.

My view of The System: We have this very complex world society, full of people doing their people things. All The System "wants"** is to perpetuate itself in a stable way, and resist change because change is unstable. If things change enough, it "wants" whatever has changed to be stable and self-perpetuating.

For example: I don't believe that there is a shadowy Aryan cabal called "The Man" that secretly influences our institutions to keep them nice and racist and keep the black man down. Rather, racism has been a part of The System for a long time, and it is loathe to accept change. It doesn't have to be true that the network heads got together and decided that "Friends" would have no black people and that Fox would produce "Homeboys in Outer Space", but a conspiracy theory about racism can imply certain things about how that institutional racism bleeds into areas of society like TV programming.

**I personify society and use words like "wants" and "loathes" as a sort of shorthand which I think I could avoid using if I knew about chaos theory and catastrophe theory systems programming and such.

A

01:16 / 21.08.01

I think that, as "conspiracy theories" have gotten more popular over recent years, they've also become less and less "credible" in the eyes of a lot of people. To many people, "conspiracy theory" means "crackpot weirdo paranoid delusional fantasy".

It's pretty obvious that people "conspire" together all the time, often to achieve some pretty, ummm, evil ends.

But a lot of people just ignore any conspiracy theory entirely.

It wouldn't be too difficult to see this as being part of a conspiracy.
_________________________________________
Oh and Loz - it wasn't a disgruntled Mafia man - it was the Cubans, the Russians, the Military-Industrial complex who were worried he was going to reveal they were reverse-engineering UFOs, Marilyn Monroe, Conrad Bremen, Ward J Littel, Kemper Boyd, Pete Bondurant, Sinatra, Allan Dulles, about 50 cuckolded husbands, J Edgar Hoover... sheesh.
___________________________________________

You could see this list of theories as being a fairly standard exercise in disinformation by whoever started the theories, if you were that way inclined.

I think that a lot of people would follow the "logic" that all of those theories can't be true, therefore none of them are.

adam

01:50 / 21.08.01

lord, i was (and still am to a certain amount) obessed w/ consipracy thoerys, the BEST tho is when a guy came into a kinko's my friend was workin' at to make a copy of his "book" he decided that my buddy needed a copy as well and paid for a second copy of it for him... my friend says thanks, looks over it and gives it to me later... the most FUCKED UP conspiracy thoery's are when they come STRAIT from the thoerist rather than a published colection (ie "the 60 best compiracies of all time" "the big book of conspiracy's" and Richard Belzers book)

Lost in a Moon Puddle

03:05 / 21.08.01

I've begun to consider conspiracy theory in the same light as magick: as a tool to break out of stale thought-processes. Free your mind type of stuff.

The usefulness, and fun, of conspiracy theory is that it makes you re-evaluate your entire worldview. It makes you begin to consider everything in terms of probability. You question. You begin to think, "man, if even one of these is true..."

The danger is that you end up painting over your windows and doffing a tinfoil hat so that the reptoids and their "man" can't get into your head.

Why are they so popular now? For one, conspiracy theories are nothing if not dramatic. They are like living fiction. They appeal to the horror fan in us, and the pessimist. Many are funny, and fun to tell others. Some conspiracy theories allow us to be heroes: we resist the conspiracy by blowing the whistle to everyone we know, or we publish a pamphlet, or we take up meditation to regain control of our toughts. Also, the internet is playing a huge role - its so easy to connect, with each other and with everything else. It seems as though the conspiracy meme would be the natural outcome of such easy connection.

My favorite conspiracy right now is the incunabula enigma. It's funky, wacky, and deep as a fractal. It's like an anti-conspiracy, where the shadowy figures in the backround are conspiring for all the right reasons.

Molly Shortcake

15:25 / 21.08.01

My favorite conspiracy right now is the Timecube. I don't understand any of it.

15:47 / 21.08.01

Originally posted by Count Adam:

You could see this list of theories as being a fairly standard exercise in disinformation

Aye, especially as four of the people listed are fictional characters and one was dead at the time of the assasination

16:11 / 21.11.07

"Conspiracy theory" is also a convenient way for people to dismiss troubling information that might be true.

As in a new book, written by Gerald Ford and published posthumously, that throws some evidence behind the idea that the C.I.A. really was involved in JFK's assassination.*

Ford was not only a president who served after JFK, but was also a member of the Warren Commission investigating Kennedy's death.

*Or at least, so says Ford's publisher. Interesting how once doubt is inserted into the equation, everything becomes doubtable....

All Acting Regiment

10:43 / 22.11.07

It's interesting that all conspiracy theories tend to involve an individual under threat from monstrous (perhaps reptilian) threats from somewhere outside, yet which are horribly close to home - ego beseiged by id, anyone?

02:56 / 25.11.07

It isn't that interesting though, is it, AAR?

No, it isn't.

Lucy Pinder is interesting. Arsenal (even though I think their goalie at the moment ... well what would you do with him? Shoot him, possibly?) are interesting.

Basically, if I were you, I might like to think about confining my opinions as to what is or isn't 'interesting' to subjects I knew something about.

I wouldn't want to have to have this conversation with you again, you know?

You seem like a nice guy. Perhaps you're a sprinter, an actor, or a genius writer - whatever you are, it could go one way, or it could go the other.

I trust you'll do the right thing.

All Acting Regiment

13:20 / 25.11.07

[It's okay, Good Hyena, it's me, Blue Turret]

15:57 / 04.12.07

ego beseiged by id, anyone

um so are you saying that all conspiracy theories are a reflection of one scary truth, and that the most accurate conspiracy theorists are the psychoanalysts?

or maybe youre saying that unequal power structures in society are modeled after conflict between psychological forces?

or maybe youre saying that people who believe conspiracy theories are neurotically trying to work out their mommy-daddy issues?

or maybe youre saying that conspiracy theories that dont thematically transcend basic freudian dynamics are pointless, no matter how manifestly true they might be?

or maybe the poster after you is on the right track, whatever track that may be...