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Paul Celan

 
 
HCE
17:57 / 08.05.03
Was reminded again of Celan while reading Jerzy Kosinkski's "hermit of 69th Street.' I found that you can listen to Celan read twelve of his poems on the Norton site, and thought it was too good not to share:

http://www.nortonpoets.com/ex/celanp.htm
 
 
HCE
23:01 / 18.10.04
Todesfugue.
Anselm Kiefer made a painting about it.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
02:13 / 19.10.04
nd, thanks for recommending Paul Celan. very interesting and influence by Rainer Maria Rilke who I love.

so what is your opinion on Theodor Adorno's saying that “to write poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric.” ? Should the poets have just stopped? Or is the Holocaust a gap that cannot be re-presented, a Year Zero?
 
 
HCE
15:37 / 19.10.04
A response! Be still my beating heart.

Well, I cheated a bit, I think, bringing up the question in a Celan thread, because Celan does something very different from what any other writer whose project is his experience of the holocaust does (for example Kosinski in Painted Bird, though not poetry).

I suppose Adorno is getting at the notion that the Holocaust is so awful it crushed something, permanently crushed an essential part of that something in us that capable of poetry, and that to continue to produce poetry afterward is either impossible or obscene.

I think quite the opposite is true, though, that it's only after such a crushing experience that people can really write poetry. I don't know if you've ever read a novel by somebody obviously talented, very good, and you read it and sort of admire the skill, but afterward remember very little? And then sometimes you come across something just as well-constructed, but it really knocks you back on your heels, and you're not sure what it is, but it's definitely not the technique? With Celan in particular, his poetry is something very odd: it's both personal and specific in the extreme, to the point where it's pretty impossible to ever annotate it fully, and at the same time somehow personal for the reader. I mean, you read Todesfuge (sp?), and you wouldn't think a schoolkid could get much out of it, right? It's dense, very dense and rich. But they give this poem out to kids and they get a lot out of it, really lovely and open things. I'll try to dig up a link.

Does that make any sense?
 
 
HCE
15:46 / 19.10.04
That's not right either. So what is it that we try to do with poetry? Is it like talking? Is it like singing? Is it not like anything else, but only like itself? I think it's more like singing than talking. I think it's less about ideas than about physical things: ashes, hair, eyes.

And when something overwhelms you completely, how can you talk? You can't really, but you do then need more than ever to sing about what's happened, to remember it.
 
 
Harhoo
07:38 / 20.10.04
On Adorno: I believe Adorno's quote actually translates more properly as "lyric poetry", which I think makes it much more interesting. "Lyric poetry" is generally seen as fairly hermetic, sealed off from the outside and reliant only on its own internal laws. For Adorno, any post-Auschwitz poem must necessarily bear witness to, and be influenced by, the Holocaust.

Which, you know, I personally disagree with, but can certainly see why mid-20th century German critics would have a totally different perspective to me.
 
 
madhatter
12:11 / 29.11.04
as i can see, the ambiguity of artistic speech in the "murderers' tongue", as he put it, lies at the core of celans later works. i think of "fadensonnen" (where it says "there are / still songs to be sung on the other side / of men." [forgive me my bad translation; would be glad if anybody came up with a better one])

"on the other side of men": does this mean (a) we, who can sing, are no more human, (b) there are songs to be sung, but not by human beings (but by, say, nature) or (c) despite these special people got killed?

it also appears to me that in "fadensonnen" he poses the question about the state of a human subject after the holocaust: there is no such thing as a "lyrical I" in it, yet there is movement, reflection. the position of the I seems to be a void.

that said, i see celans works (the later, the stronger) as an experiment about different ways to get on with adornos way to put the impact of the holocaust on the arts.

but at the same time, i remember adorno in the chapter on cultural industry: "it seems that there is only so much art possible at a given time as seems impossible." contradictonary? dialectical! far out...
 
  
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