BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Temple >

The God(desses) we work with.

  
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:01 / 07.05.03
I have been inspired by Spyder's comment I made a deal with Aphrodite, because she is my token guardian goddess made in this thread. I thought it might be nice if we shared our experiences, knowledge and opinions of the deities that we've worked with. Why we picked those particular gods/goddesses (or why they picked us) and the factors that make a specific relationship with a deity work?

I've been thinking about a thread along these lines for a while, I might have mentioned it to a few people in passing. The beginnings of the idea came about after reading the Accessing Patrons post a while ago.

I'd start but, you know, I don't want to be the only one.
 
 
Salamander
23:27 / 07.05.03
Eris is still my number one bitch. I was a discordian long before I was a magician, praise be to the beautious one!
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
05:43 / 08.05.03
Until about a month ago is was, uh, working with a general vague sort of Earth Mother goddess figure. And I guess the patron goddess of my superhero team is Athena.

Lately though, something new has taken shape...partly due to me being disgruntled with many aspects of my former relationships with dieties and partly due to forces which have nothing to do with my concious self, I'm beginning more and more clearly to see something New taking over as my "token deity". Still not really sure what it is or will be or should be, something waiting to be born/rediscovered? The image gets more refined as days go by, I think I'd like to make some kind of a collage or something and see what goes. Probably female (all my gods are female, I always say), no colors (just blacks and whites and some greys), definitely some sort of hodgepodge whatsis.

My relationship? Right now, going to be creating/realizing this thing, later...who knows. I feel both fond and wary at the same time.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
12:32 / 08.05.03
My token goddess used to be Kali, but that didn't workout so well. The mindless destruction that started entering my life just started to ware on me, so I gave her up. I honestly expected something horrible to happen after that, but nothing did. Then, I was talking with Aphrodite, and we sort decided that she would become my guardian goddess. And that was that.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:57 / 08.05.03
Odd usage of the word 'token' there, what's all that about then?
 
 
gotham island fae
14:26 / 08.05.03
Loki. Because Ze has red hair.

No, seriously, the red hair is just something I tack onto visualizations. I actually connected to this Norse trixter for a couple of (canonically supported) reasons. Hir transgender tendencies (birthing Sleipner and "going drag" with Thor) and my fascination with taboo breakers in general. The common appellation of Loki as the "Norse Satan" is an erroneous manifestation of this characteristic I appreciate.

The thing about it is that in breaking taboos and accepted behavioral norms, Loki causes growth and brings a new understanding of the whole, something that is overlooked in the traditional, moralistic, fundamentalist view. In this, I envision Loki as sibling to Eris and (grand)child of XAOZ.

In addition, MAAT and HORUS have entered my spiritual world very strongly, recently, for different reasons...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:58 / 08.05.03
Token is an odd word, perhaps a little demeaning, but it is difficult to term something like this. I doubt Kali would like to be referred to as token though. As a deity she's destructive but in a positive frame and will only bring that kind of thing in to your life if she feels that it's necessary. She's not about bargain but sacrifice - she was probably wrong for you from the very beginning. In some ways she's quite close to my patron...

Hecate is my patron/ guardian and has been for around three years. I doubt that I could part ways with her even if I desired to, the whole relationship is far too rigorous and at times I feel bound up in it. Moments catch me when it seems like I breathe her in with the air but it's more of a give and take thing than a control thing. I wouldn't say that we deal. If I ask for something she grants it, helps me if I'm in a bad spot but usually claims something back later. It's all rather uncertain but she is the goddess of change. In the trinity she's representative of both the maiden and crone but is generally perceived as a dark goddess and that is probably linked to the fact that she's chthonic (did I spell that right?)- sacrifices are placed in the ground rather than left in the air. She also guides Persephone to the underworld and back twice a year and thus has a part to play in the seasons.

Hecate just seemed to fit me. I prefer the spring and autumn to summer and winter, was attached to the crone figure, my personality is suited to change. It's not her image or background that suits but rather who Hecate is, the tasks she performs and the uncertainty behind her. She jumped at me before I even properly considered adopting one god/goddess to work with.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:13 / 08.05.03
Ganesha and I are in honeymoon lately. The elephant-headed one has been removing obstacles and clearing my path for one year already. It's been uphill. I've been doing him some good, as well (managed to make my two housemates pay him homage and small tributes.
 
 
penitentvandal
17:57 / 08.05.03
Well, me and Yemaya were an item on the magician/goddess front for about a year and a half recently - lately that's kind of not been as intense, and recently I've been hanging out on a more serious level with a personal goddess who's been part of my immaterial life for years now...More the HGA than a goddess, really, though those things are both sections through a much larger, wyrder 5th-dimensional perception, I suppose.

The funny thing is that I got into working with Yemaya after an intense year or so working with Chango, her son...But we're all bored of that story by now, aren't we?
 
 
slinkyvagabond
16:38 / 11.05.03
I don't know if this is the right place for it but...

Yesterday I prayed to Aphrodite. Having looked at Spyder's thread I was kind of thinking about her and I kind of had a query particular to her area. Ahem. In any case, sometime this morning I had a dream that I met her, she approached me somewhat haughtily. Due to my early experiences of her as an Osbourne Book illustration she manifested herself in a rather Caucasian, blonde way but incandescent, a nice touch. Basically, I knew I had to give her an offering. So I presented her with a firey red dress. It was the colour and appearance of flames. She seemed pretty pleased. That's it though, sadly I either don't remember any dialogue or there wasn't any. I'm not terribly au fait with her except for a few general myths so I don't know if this hasn't any signifigance. I was wondering if anyone else thinks that makes some sort of sense? Should I offer her something in the waking world as well? I've drawn a picture of her as a spirit body form wearing the dress but after that I'm lost as to what to do.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:21 / 11.05.03
Fae, Set has red hair, too, and maybe Kon Tiki, the Polynesian sun god who may or may not be descended from globe-trotting Egyptians.

Currently, I access these guys in a very remote, intellectualized way. I'm usually drawn to Hermes/Thoth figures, and to gods who've evolved radically. I'm actually preparing some tidbits I recently came across in the Book of the Dead relating to Set and Horus for your consideration -- it seems like both were subject to drastic revisions (beyond the usual Imperial amplifications like Osiris, Ptah ot Ra) at various periods in Egyptian history -- because I know a few of you are interested in Horus.

I have had repeated,unasked-for contact with some sort of imaginary figure that I can't explain. He has wings, typically on his hips but sometimes several sets all the way up his sides, and three gemlike blue eyes all in a row -- not the usual "third eye" but in the space where the bridge of his nose ought to be. I dunno if that's a god, though. Made me nervous, and I haven't seen him in awhile.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:42 / 11.05.03
Frae, just reread your post a little more carefully. Have you read Lewis Hyde's "Trickster Makes This World?"
 
 
Wyrd
20:27 / 11.05.03
I've worked for lots of God/desses from many different pantheons. It all depends on what is needed, and often, what They want me to do (not usually the other way round). I'm a kind of freelance contractor that gets nabbed for various jobs. I'm not dedicated to any one God/dess as that interfers with my netural status among Them. Can't have that.

I like Deities. They're all pretty cool in Their own way. I have a special fondness for one or two, Ganesha in particular, though I like Odin a lot too. Brid is kick ass, and the Lwa are deadly (though techically they're not God/desses, but they might as well be).

I was amused by the "token God/dess" bit. Can't see any of Them being anyone's bitch.
 
 
Salamander
20:42 / 11.05.03
Usually I don't refer to any God/dess as bitch, but Eris insisted. My whole pantheon consists mainly of trickster God/desses, and were this may seem unbalanced or limited, quite often I get major lessons and insights that I wouldn't expect from such deities. Qal: It could be that this intellegence is waiting for you to make the next move.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
21:33 / 11.05.03
So what do you think a god is? Is there a difference other than magnitude between gods and culture heroes? Or regular heroes for that matter?
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
00:57 / 12.05.03
Yeah, "token" was a pretty shitty way of saying what I meant. Sorry 'bout that. Slinky, that's really cool. In my somewhat limited experience, dreams are a good place to ,ake contact with celestial figures, but like any place else, they're more likely to call you then to come when you call. I've been thinking a lot, for about a year, basically about what Qal Yn said. Are they Thought-based Ideaforms? Hyperdimensional beings? The souls of humans that we've just made bigger then they were originally?
 
 
Quantum
08:00 / 12.05.03
I'd go for magnitude as the main difference. It's possible for a man to become a god (lots of Egyptians did, Metatron used to be a man) and magicians are pretty likely candidates. So I wonder which gods used to be magicians?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:04 / 12.05.03
Well, there is the concept of Gods being venerated ancestors who have merged with an archetypal current (war, love, diplomacy, justice, etc..) that they exemplified during their lives. Some of the Lwa are often considered as having once been human beings who performed Great Deeds in life, similarly the Gods of the Northern tradition are considered as the elder kin of their people. There are various academic theories about how Odin, Thor et al were once tribal chieftains who eventually became venerated as Gods, which would sit quite well with the amped up ancestor theory. You can see the same process at work with the Christian Saints, who lived such exemplary lives that people began worshipping them after death as a anthropomorphised ideal representation of the virtues they were known for in life.

I think this is an interesting model for looking at these matters; the personality of the remembered ancestor becomes a conduit for interacting with the otherwise abstract 'forces' of the universe. You can speculate how this process could make it easier to interact with the Divine, allowing the devotee to approach and communicate with the forces of the universe in human terms.

However, I think in practice - none of this really matters. It's all academic, as with many areas of magick, you don't necessarily need to know how it works to interact with it successfully. I prefer not to try and define The Mysteries in any concrete sense, as I think it begins to subtly erode the sense of Divine Mystery if you start attributing any degree of certainty to your theories about the Gods. They wouldn't really be The Mysteries if you had a complete understanding of their nature and origins.

Of course, this doesn't prevent speculation, as any creative and enquiring mind will naturally come up with various theories for what it is exactly that s/he is interacting with. But I don't think its all that productive to attribute any kind of objective validity to any of these ideas. I personally tend to keep several working hypothesise in mind as to 'what the Gods are' but refrain as much as possible from 'believing' in any of these theories to any real extent. I think it's good to keep things flexible, and not try and pin down any aspect of The Mysteries in concrete terms, because ultimately, when you're dealing with a specific entity you are interacting with a Living Personality. I don't think you can understand the essential nature of any living personality in absolute terms, whether they're Human or Divine.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
13:10 / 12.05.03
But I don't think its all that productive to attribute any kind of objective validity to any of these ideas.

Would you say you've got a problem if you start believing in the objective (I've been using the word "mathematical") reality of them?
 
 
slinkyvagabond
13:15 / 12.05.03
Yeah, that's what I thought Spyder. So I guess I'll just have to wait. Always gotta wait for something. I suppose in the meantime (well,after I finish exams this wednesday, yay!)I could do a bit of research on her so if I find anything (if I DO anything) that might be of interest to you I could post it here.
 
 
gotham island fae
14:04 / 12.05.03
Qal Yn, yes, Set(h) is another in the growing family of divinity I interact with intellectually and magickally. Set(h)'s attributes and correspondences are nearly as resonate with me as the Norse "fire god's" (a debatable attribution, but pertinent, ne'ertheless). Also, though it's crap-support, the one photo-still I've seen from the Eris movie has her with bright red hair, as well. (Still-Life with Woodpecker, anyone?)

General discussion: the nature of gods, godforms, ascended ancestors, HGAs, et cetera is every bit as subjective and mercurial as Gypsy Lantern suggests, in my book. Though I respect their position and beliefs, I find it difficult to discuss divinity with some reconstructionist heathens as a consequence of their necessary understanding of their gods as objective beings. Though it will most likely drive me balls-out bonkers by the end of it, I have been attempting for a number of years to craft a non-absolutist understanding of GOD, Universe and infinity that embraces ALL possibility and perspective. Knowing that that understanding will only truly come with union with the same (hence the mind-exploding insanity should it happen in this life) hasn't disuaded me, yet. All that means, in far less lucid speach than Gypsy Lantern expressed is that everyone's relationship with whatever aspect of the divine they interact with is, by necessity, unique to the individual.

Er, that would be sooooo much clearer if I sat and honed it...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:20 / 12.05.03
Would you say you've got a problem if you start believing in the objective (I've been using the word "mathematical") reality of them?

I think that if you don't believe in the objective reality of the Gods you're interacting with, you're unlikely to have a great deal of success in building relationships with them. If you adopt a specific limiting paradigm such as 'They are all aspects of my psyche' or 'they are archetypes in the collective unconscious' - you're limiting your abilty to experience Them fully - almost filtering the mad unexplainable experience through a sanitised psuedo-scientific safety net.

I fully believe in the objective reality of the Gods who I serve and interact with. I know that on the surface of things, this seems totally at odds with some of the flexibility of belief stuff in my previous post, but I think there's a difference between holding a belief based on practical interaction, and a belief based on theoretical speculation. I respond to the Gods as Living Personalities with objective validity, as regardless of whatever their essential nature might be, they behave and interact exactly like Living Personalities with objective validity. They tend to prefer being treat as such, and that approach generally seems to get you in their favour more than approaching Them without believing in the reality of their power.

If a specific situation or relationship calls for absolute belief in the reality of something in order to be successful, then your fluidity of belief should be able to adapt to that scenario and not obstruct it. If something isn't broke, it isn't neccessary to fix it just for the sake of being flexible in what you believe.

I think it all comes down to your own personal experience of something. I don't attribute objective validity to any of my speculative theories about 'what the Gods might be' as I can't possibly know whether any of these theories are anywhere near accurate. But I do attribute objective validity to the reality of the Gods, because my experience of interacting with them has taught me that they respond best when approached as such. I think you have to occupy a territory similar to Spare's Neither/Neither state, where the question of 'what they may be' is eternally unanswered. There's always an aspect of Divine Mystery that you'll never be able to fathom, but that doesn't preclude you from interacting with them. I don't think you can ever 'know' the answer to any of these questions in absolute terms, so all you can do is identify the standpoint/s that work most effectively and go with it. I'm probably not explaining this very clearly - it's difficult to fully express.
 
 
Wyrd
23:25 / 12.05.03
Would you say you've got a problem if you start believing in the objective (I've been using the word "mathematical") reality of them?

Personally I don't believe in Them. But that doesn't stop the fuckers from turning up. I've lots of theories about what They are, and where They came from, but ultimately none of us will ever know for sure. I just deal with Them as They appear, and hope it's not going to result in an all-nighter.
 
 
Warewullf
10:41 / 13.05.03
I've worked with a few deities.

My main one is the Wiccan triple-goddess. I pray to the moon and feel her/their gentle presence in my life. Like her/them a lot.

I've also worked a little with Herne but he's very hard to get a feel for, so to speak. Although I did have a vision of him while standing at a bus stop. The sun moved to a weird place in the sky and he drapped a cape around my shoulders. I still don't know why.

I've had a spontaneous vison of Vulcan. He helped me light a fire and asked for a blowjob in return. (He came lava.)

Bacchus has popped up a couple of times. Once when invited (leading to much drink and sex. Fab!) and once he was just sort of...there. I've tried invoking him but it doesn't work . I've learned that simply inviting him is the best approach. Either he shows or he doesn't.

I also have three spirit guides, I suppose you'd call them, or Totem spirits. I haven't had much contact with them lately, though. Must work on that...
 
 
slinkyvagabond
19:14 / 13.05.03
Anna, you're probably the one to ask about this. Is it true that Hecate, Hera and Aphrodite form a Triple-Goddess, Maiden-Mother-Crone style?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:23 / 14.05.03
I've lots of theories about what They are, and where They came from, but ultimately none of us will ever know for sure. I just deal with Them as They appear, and hope it's not going to result in an all-nighter.

Wyrd nails in 2 sentences what I've been struggling to express across 2 rambling clumsily written posts.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:48 / 14.05.03
Is it true that Hecate, Hera and Aphrodite form a Triple-Goddess, Maiden-Mother-Crone style?

Erk, that's a bit difficult to answer actually because it's all mixed up. The usual Maiden-Mother-Crone trinity is formed by Hecate(crone), Demeter(mother) and Persephone(maiden).

In later Greek myth Hecate is presented as the daughter of Hera and Zeus. That means she can't play the role of crone in any trinity that involves Hera. Unfortunately Hera cannot play mother if Aphrodite is involved because a love goddess could not be the crone so, personally, I don't think it would work without complete ignorance of the myth. It could be done if you simply pretended the later mythology didn't exist I suppose and it would be quite fun to rearrange so that Hecate had the elder role.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
12:40 / 14.05.03
Wyrd hits the nail right on the head, I think. It really doesn't matter where they come from or what they are, you just have to take them in stride. I hate it when people talk about ancient gods as if they were just stories, but then go and say that there religion isn't. Horus and Appollo were just as real to the Egyptians and Greeks then as Jesus and Moses are to the Christians and Jews.

But, as to the Tripple goddess thing, Anna's points are right. Not only that, but depending on who you ask, Aphrodite isn't really an Olympian. SOme say that she's the daughter of Zeus and Hera, but the older records say she grew out of Uranus' genitals that Kronos threw into the sea (the Titans always were a loving family).
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:41 / 14.05.03
On this subject, can I call out for help finding stuff on Ochun and Lada, their likes, dislikes, what gifts they like, prayers, all that sort of stuff. I've spent the last 6 weeks combing the interwebnet with little success, I know who Lada is in the Slavic pantheon but have no real information on what I could do for her likes and dislikes, other than sacrificing cows and dropping them in a deep pit, which I think my Hindu landlord would object to on so many levels. And for Ochun, other than honey and rivers, I haven't had much luck.

Trust me to pick obscure Goddesses...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:09 / 14.05.03
I'd hardly call Ochun obscure, given the amount of followers that Santeria, Candomble, et al have throughout the world. But it's not the sort of thing that you're going to find a great deal of practical written information on, unless you can read portugese or spanish.

Your best bet is to read as much as you can find on Yoruban myth and the various religions that are derived from it. See if you can put together enough information to get in contact with Ochun, give her some appropriate offerings, and see what she has to say to you. The best place to find information about a God or Goddess is with that God or Goddess themselves, everything else is just book learning. The Orisha should really be approached via Ellegua, as your first port of call. I'd speak with Ellegua and ask for an introduction.
 
 
grant
20:23 / 14.05.03
Ochun:

do searches for "orishanet" and for "moonweb" and "yoruba"
 
 
Renwick
20:03 / 17.05.03
I generally work with Ganesha, Osirus, Loki, and Baron Samedi. Dpending on what for.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
21:36 / 17.05.03
Sometimes I'll purposely set out to work with certian beings because of the date. For example, on March 3rd this year I spoke with the Three Ladies, since it was the whole 3/3/03 thing. And during the eclipse the other day I contacted Diana. Anyone with similar experiences?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:46 / 18.05.03
Is it true that Hecate, Hera and Aphrodite form a Triple-Goddess, Maiden-Mother-Crone style?

This is one of those "your mileage may vary" topics, I think, but that ought to be Hera, Athena and Artemis, oughtn't it? Demeter and Persephone are a lot older than Hecate, in the context of the myth itself and in the longer context of mythology--though they didn't seem to worry about continuity too much. Hera, if she was a love goddess at all, was mother-love, and definitely had a crone-like attitude toward her children. She was the goddess of marriage, which wasn't the same as love for the Greeks. In a Demeter-Hera-Persephone triditis, Hera, Demeter's younger sister, takes the middle role as the arbiter between Demeter and Hades. I think the exact make-up of the triune goddess depended on what city you came from and what mysteries you were initiated in, as well as period as Anna points out. Hera got a more favorable role in Sparta, as Herakles's mother, than Athena, who was the patroness of their chief rival, and who they might not have even included in anything as potent and official as a triditis.

Says Qalyn, who mistook the gods for baseball players.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
06:28 / 18.05.03
Horus and Appollo were just as real to the Egyptians and Greeks then as Jesus and Moses are to the Christians and Jews.

I think my question was whether they're as real to us as George Bush and Brad Pitt.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply