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Vacomagi? How good's your Latin?

 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
07:31 / 29.04.03
This is just musing recently. In Ptolemy's map of North Britain (compiled I think from 1st century sources, I don't have the map's actual date at hand at the moment)he mentions a tribe of Picts called the Vacomagi. Now since we don't even know what word the Picts used to describe themselves it's highly unlikely that Vacomagi used that word to describe their own tribe and much more likely that it was the Roman name for them.

Magi as far as I know is a Persian originating word, so my question is two fold. Did magi mean wise person/magus to the Romans of the 1st to 4th century? And what does Vaco mean?
 
 
Jub
07:45 / 29.04.03
I think Vaco means "free from", so it might be that the Romans named this Pictish tribe as "without a king" or leader. I'm guessing that rather than the Persians having anything to do with the naming, the word Magi was already part of Latin.

But I thought that the Picts were all dead by the time the Romans got to Britain. So, hmmm.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:31 / 29.04.03
"magus" was used by Cicero to mean "a wise man among the Persians", so, yes, by the 1st century (although Claudius Ptoleamaius was librarian at Alexender in the early-to-mid 2nd century) the word existed in Latin, and also had a broader figurative sense of "magician". Can't think of a use of it to mean "king", though

The verb "vaco" means among other things "I am free from", but the two words could not, IMHO, be sandwiched together to form "vacomagi"; more probable might be the cognate adjective "vaccuus", but even there it's an odd fit.

To be honest, it's most likely that, although the name is a Latin one, and was probably a Roman one, it was a Latinised version of the sound of the tribal name. This is particularly likely given that "magus" is itself a Celtic sense unit meaning, as far as one can tell, "field", "plain" and possibly "market" (an attempt to explain it as an ending to town names like "Caesaromagus" - not convinced myself). There's an attempt to tie this into primitive Finnish, by the way, but I'm profoundly suspicious of it. So I'm not sure "Vacomagi" means much of anything, in Latin anyway.

Oh, and Theodosius drove the Picts out of Northern Britain in the late 4th Century, Jub, but the weakness of the empire after the death of Theodosius meant they were raiding again within a few years.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:57 / 01.05.03
Bump - anyone got any more on this? I'm interested now...
 
 
knickers
16:17 / 04.05.03
Like most Latin versions of local tribal names, it's probably their own name for themselves, with a Latinised (and then, in Ptolemy's case, Greekified) ending. The individual bits of the name are therefore meaningless in Latin.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:23 / 04.05.03
Didn't I just say that?
 
 
knickers
08:45 / 05.05.03
Sorry, Haus, you did. How on earth did I miss that?

Obviously time for me to get a new pair of specs.
 
 
johngault22
23:27 / 20.02.06
This is where I live and my father's family is from but even living here I have found very little about the history of the area before 10th century and even after that I couldn't tell you anything in detail until about the end of the 16th century but I do intend on finding out more, so I will report to this thread when I do I find out more.

BTW I found this thread after googling a name (Taexali) I saw on the map in that programme "The Celts" and then googling a name that was included with it on a web page about roman tribal names.
 
  
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