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'white kids like me'

  
 
Disco is My Class War
03:31 / 26.07.01
Last night I replied to Rizla's 'protest/rant' thread:

quote:So, the other point I want to make, or the question I want to ask (myself included) is, why does it take 'white kids like us' to be beaten and killed and arrested on screen for the point to be driven home? Why do we have to see ourselves reflected back on the television screen or the photo on a website to finally become 'really' aware of the huge injustices that are going on? Why do people think that 'anti-globalisaton' protests began in Seattle, when they've been going on for thirty years in so-called 'developing nations' with no media coverage and far worse violence (and murder) perpetrated by corporations and the state towards those protesting? It's something I participate in, and something I'm trying to answer myself.

Considering that a few other points have been taken up in that thread, I decided my point was important enough to have a thread all of its own, in the hope that someone will have a go at answering this.

Jackie made the point to me offline this morning that what I wrote above assumes a whole lot of stuff, around the use of 'we'. For instance, someone not-white is gonna read this and not relate at all. And I'm not sure that I'm asking how people can not be 'aware' of the 'lack of democracy' we live in. We all know it, really. If you're reading this, you know about it.

It's the 'doing' that counts. How come it takes such a drastic event like Genoa for people to take responsibility for the need for action? Why must people be congratulated on suddenly realising that they need to do something about it? Why does that realisation seem to depend so heavily on having one's own personal freedom curtailed, either literally or symbolically? And Rizla, I apologise if it feels like I'm singling you out here, but I feel it's far more widespread than just on Barbelith, and I wanna answer the question for myself, too.

This thread is part of my new philosophy regarding Barbelith. I'm resisting replying to various people's posts with scathing cynicism and instead attempting to question whatever assumptions and dodginesses I see in a constructive manner. Either way I still feel like a patronising git, but y'know. Whatever.
 
 
grant
13:54 / 27.07.01
quote:Originally posted by D'Luscious Rosa:
For instance, someone not-white is gonna read this and not relate at all. And I'm not sure that I'm asking how people can not be 'aware' of the 'lack of democracy' we live in. We all know it, really. If you're reading this, you know about it.


Well, I think symbolically, Carlo Giuliani is our backyard. Member of our tribe and all that. And most folks are NIMBY activists - Not In My Back Yard.

It's also much easier to understand a kid getting shot than it is to understand economic formulas for relieving third world debt and how they relate to interests of multinational corporations.

Especially when we, our tribe, passively benefit from those multinational corporations. You know, eating Twinkies made from Monsanto corn, hamburgers from cows grazing on cleared rainforests, fish harvested from sensitive spawning grounds and all.

Alternative Tentacles slogan: "I'd kill Flipper for a tuna sandwich!"

And it ain't easy even figuring out what is connected to what in the world. Where things really come from. And that's where I focus most of my efforts, y'know, unless something really gets in my face.
 
 
Blank Faced Avatar
08:42 / 28.07.01
Bigotry is often paper thin. If it's edgewise to you, you just won't see it. It doesn't make you a bad person. But its easy to see when it turns to face you.
But I like to think that the fact you even see protests in the west nowadays means we haven't given up, we can deduce the existence of injustices hidden from us by our society and we are still trying, still fighting, still pushing .. never say die. We will advance this cause, we will make our society more just.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:21 / 28.07.01
My sodding computer at work crashed as I was in the middle of replying to this thread two days ago... Anyway, there's lots to repond to but I'd like to just answer this bit first:

quote:Originally posted by D'Luscious Rosa:
Why must people be congratulated on suddenly realising that they need to do something about it?

I think it's not so much a case of "congratulating" people as it is of encouraging them. On the one hand, yes, it shouldn't be so hard for people to realise certain things about the world they live in, and it is depressing that it takes a white European guy to be shot for white Europeans to think again about the relationship between protestors, state security forces and 'violence'.

But once people have been made to realise what kind of world they live in, I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to chastise ourselves/them for needing it to happen in, as grant puts it, their own backyard before they looked a little closer. It shouldn't be so hard for us to get out of our armchairs... but it obviously is on some level, or moe of us would be doing it. It's so hard to get most people to even go to the trouble of forming an opinion on, say, what's been happening in Genoa in the last week or so (I'm talking everyone I know, not just Barbelith), let alone consider any form of action themselves, that no wonder every time someone does so I get all excited...

Wish I had longer to reply now - will do so later...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:08 / 31.07.01
Probably not the best time to be responding to this (foul mood) but one thing that occurs to me (and the original point is an important and useful one) is that if you've always felt relatively comfortable/secure, then it takes a massive effort of empathy to respond to the injustices perpetrated on others... precisely because they're *so* other to you...

I've often talked about this with people in terms of seeing society/the world in terms of centres and fringes... (yep, it's time for plums' 'the world is flat' theory) the fringes being habitually insecure places to exist (for example as openly queer in an extremely homophobic society, as someone geographically/socially sited somewhere where starvation/war are daily fears/realities etc)

The closer you are to the fringes, the more likely you are to appreciate the struggles of others... and that sometimes events show you that you're a lot closer to the scary fringes than you'd think, eg Genoa.

Although this doesn't in any way guarantee
this. eg I know lots of rampantly homophobic Asians... I just think what's frustrating you, Rosa, is that you're expecting that people around you (in whatever context) will have this sensitivity...

But being relatively secure, from a western nation (assuming this, about barbelith people at least, obviously i don't know about your other social circles) etc is likely to position you right at the stable centre of things? which is the last place the ripples are usually felt/seen. hence the effort of empathy. which is tiring, difficult and often low on the list of priorities for most of us. It doesn't seem to be be about us, so we don't care.

I say this, as it surprises me when people are surprised by stuff like the Genoa thing.. not that i'm some hoary old cynic (well, not entirely!) but because I've never felt that 'oh but we live in a democracy' thing so I guess when appalling things happen I'm not surprised.

Which in my case (permit a bit of experiential bumph here) probably comes from being raised by asian parents who lived through the Enoch Powell period and bashed into me what that was like....

I guess I have elements of that 'it could all fall apart any second, the state is reasonable as long as it gets what it wants' mentality built in, so now matter how comfortable/sited in stabiliy i/my family appear to be we feel on the fringes at least as often as we feel settled and secure.

rambling, and not sure if this is relevant. will come back when I'm in a better mood.

and having a sense of deja vu about all this.
 
 
No star here laces
14:03 / 01.08.01
What was the original thread?

Um, possibly a side point, as I've not read the original thread, but...

This, to me, ties in with a certain very worrying phenomenon in activist circles. I've been to a few events recently where I've heard people bemoaning the number of 'dilettante' activists who 'only got into the movement because of Naomi Klein (Giuliani/May Day/John Pilger documentary: insert as relevant).

Which to me is very redolent of the whole "I was into {Band X} back when no-one had heard of them" music subculture snobbery. Which in its own way is fair enough as these subcultures are basically about status and entertainment and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

But it is an attitude that I feel is seriously out of place in a politicised 'movement' like the anti-globalisation/capitalism/whatever coalition. Surely the only thing that matters is willingness to act, and to support the ideals, not how long you've been thinking that way for. Otherwise we should all be worshipping graven idols of Noam Chomsky or something.

So yes, it's shitty that most people only get to hear of this stuff when a white kid gets shot in Europe, but did you really expect anything different? The whole point about globalisation is that it is a mess of different factors that act together to obscure what is going on and to make resistance difficult, the most important being corporate control of the media, in this instance. But at the end of the day, it must be a good thing that awareness is growing, although it is regrettable that death and misery appear to be the catalyst for this.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
10:19 / 03.08.01
King Bongo wrote:

'So yes, it's shitty that most people only get to hear of this stuff when a white kid gets shot in Europe, but did you really expect anything different?'

Not terribly. And of course it's important that awareness *is* spreading, that people who otherwise might not have, are skilling themselves up with activist tactics like NDVA, affinity group models, spokescouncils, media-making, whatever. It's great.

But I'm not necessarily saying 'You're stupid if you haven't known about it already'. Well, maybe I was in my frustrated of frustrated moods last week. But can I turn the question around to 'What other ways are there of letting people know?' And really, it's the power to know a whole heap of things at once, a sense of agency and empowerment to act as well as knowledge of what's happening around the world, as well as a sense of connection (between yourself and other people globally).

It seems obvious to me that there have got to be other ways of getting people to feel the need for insurrection or action, not just someone getting shot and others imagining that it could have been them. I mean, there are other ways, because if there weren't there wouldn't be a movement.

(I'm way too tired to be coherent, actually, so I'll leave it there.)
 
 
bio k9
08:22 / 04.08.01
People don't care about anything if they can't see the direct effect it has on their lives. It's as simple as that. When the average person hears that the rain forests are being devoured so The Corporation can build french fry farms they just shrug. What can they do about it? Five year old boys covered in explosive dust, making fireworks by hand? These things suck, whats on TV tonight?

I doubt 10% of the people here (my local area, not Barbelith) could tell you anything about the WTO riot other than "those anarchists tried to wreck our city." Global corporations exploiting the poor? Who the fuck cares, some asshole destroyed my Starbucks! Fucking anarchist assholes!

I guess what I'm getting at is this: I have a full time job and a one year old daughter. My hands are full. I work for a fairly large local corporation that underpays everyone except the management. I don't have a lot of spare time or money and I find my efforts are better* spent changing things closer to home. I imagine a lot of other people find themselves in the same boat.


*Yes, "better" is completely subjective. And I'm sure that fighting for a big cause far away would have greater global impact, maybe even greater local impact, than fighting for a local cause but that just not as easy now, is it? Um...give me convenience or give me death?
 
 
No star here laces
07:01 / 06.08.01
quote:Originally posted by D'Luscious Rosa:
It seems obvious to me that there have got to be other ways of getting people to feel the need for insurrection or action, not just someone getting shot and others imagining that it could have been them. I mean, there are other ways, because if there weren't there wouldn't be a movement.


This is the crux of it, to me. Big direct actions seek to make a point to governments and bodies like the WTO. They certainly don't make a point to the public, as K9 says "those assholes smashed up my starbucks" is about the limit of the communication in that direction.

I wonder how all that manpower at big demos could be better used to talk directly to people? Because at the end of the day this is all just so much wind unless we can get a more substantial number of people interested in 'the movement'. I think the WTO got the message that people are pissed off with them by now. But until they get the message that most of the people are pissed off with them, then they'll continue acting as if they have a democratic mandate and protestors are just dangerous extremists. Which, in a way, you can argue that they are...
 
  
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