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Magick and Technology; Chicken and Egg.

09:07 / 24.04.03

Based on the previous topic, I'm now interested in the actual difference, if any, between magick and technology. So the question I wish to ask people is which, if any, is true:

a. Magick is the basic building block of reality. Technology is just an aspect of magick.

b. Maths/Science/Technology is the basic building block of reality. Magick is just an aspect of that.

c. Science & Magick are different sides of the same coin.

d. Science & Magick are the same thing with different jargon and outfits.

e. Other (foolish elseware, it's sooo much more complex/simple than that...)

For me, as ever, it comes down to semantics. Magick is altering reality in conformance with my will. Be that a working to change my perceptions, the world itself, writing a perl script, telling a joke or using the TV remote to change channel.

If magick becomes quantifiable, does it become "mere" technology, or a more useful form of magick? If scientists prooved in the lab that servitors existed, would they stop being magick?

16:57 / 24.04.03

elsewhere wrote:
For me, as ever, it comes down to semantics. Magick is altering reality in conformance with my will

To quote Uncle Al, "Every act is a magickal act".

As far as the poll goes, I lean towards a combination of "a" and "d". The Magickal Universe is the core level of reality, and the systems of Magick & Science are two code sets or metaphors used to define and interact with that Universe.

18:46 / 24.04.03

I think LVX23 gets it pretty much right (although i think "Magickal Universe" is a bit of a loaded phrase). Unfortunately, we cant relate to the laws of the universe of a deeper level than standard or synchronous causation. As such, all we can really do is create a nice long list of "a causes b"s, and group them into things like magic, technology, etc

However, this might show that magic and technology cant truly be unified/replace each other/become each other. There's a proof relating to causation that shows that, if A causes B, then, if not-A, then not-B. If this is right, then any event with a technological cause cannot be replicated my magical means, and vice versa. To my mind, this puts paid to Carroll's claims that magic will replace technology. It seems more, if all goes according to plan, that magic will compliment technology

Roach

19:38 / 24.04.03

By minor coincidence there was a line on Buffy tonight, "Physics is the basis of Magic". So, glad to have that cleared up then.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

21:15 / 24.04.03

"A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic" Arthur C Clarke

so, if we accept that, than any "magical act" could be seen as the person having sufficiently advanced brain activity OR some kind of backward in time technology bleed.

sure, it sounds silly, but why not?

on a more barbelith friendly side of things

I think that the behavior of particles at the quantum levels follow the rules that magic seems to follow, and has followed for hundreds of years. Also, when the early qabbalistic scholars wrote about the creation of the universe, they pretty much had the big bang theory, like 700 years ago.

I vote that they are connected, but the connection only exists within the human mind, outside of that framework they begin to split...

08:33 / 25.04.03

Yesss! Buffy validated my Quantum Magick topic, result

Semantic quibble- Can I pretend you said 'Science' instead of 'Technology'? Because I see technology as instantiated science, or tools of science. In that sense, a Wand is magickal technology, as is a sigil etc.
So are Science and Magick two sides of the same coin etc?
e)Foolish Elseware, it's more complex than that

there are four major cultural paradigms, Art Religion Science and Magick, and they vie for dominance.
Arguing which is best is like arguing who would win in a fight between a shark and a tiger- pointless. In philosophy we say they are Incommensurable.

08:36 / 25.04.03

Hey Elijah, post on the Quantum Magick thread! I need all the support I can get to show Magick and Quantum Physics are kissing cousins...

15:42 / 25.04.03

Arguing which is best is like arguing who would win in a fight between a shark and a tiger

Depends...If the fight was on land, my money would be on the tiger. But in water....hmmm...might be a good match.