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Creating magical narratives

 
 
slinkyvagabond
23:33 / 23.04.03


I've been thinking about this narrative magic a bit recently. I'm currently cramming in the sociological theorists at college (theory exam in 8 lousy days - yee-hah) and of course there's a lot of stuff about discourse and constituting/inventing the self and one's world through discourses. The Foucaultian or Bourdieuian (?) discourse comes into being over time, is created by many people, groups and institutions so a consensus reality does naturally come about. Obviously the force of will behind such a thing is much greater than the will of one individual story-teller. But as above, so below - it just struck me that if we're bringing about these realities all the time in this narrative manner then is it so far-fetched to think that an individual can also bring about a certain reality through narrative? I'm not so hot on my psycho-analytical theory but I think that a number of theorists have pointed out that humans are self-narrating beings. Perhaps it was something from the Lacanian stable that I was reading, something about the essentially fragmented, or indeed non-existent, subject having to produce narratives of the self in order to function on a daily basis. Telling the story of yourself makes it true, I guess. Anyhow, this is a meandering preamble. I know that magic deosn't have to get any creedence from, of all things, the social sciences. But the synchronicities are interesting. I also remembered Sypha Nadon's quote from the "misleading dream messages" thread:

~"Rather then just fantasize about it, I decided to write a short story about it. I believe in the idea that what you write can happen in reality, in fact quite a bit of the stuff I’ve written in my old stories has come true in the future. A Burroughsian type of magic, eh? So I wrote a short story where I was the main character. On the first day of the writing class I wrote about an attractive, intelligent boy (who was also gay) sitting next to me, and during the upcoming classes we’d start to fall in love, starting with him liking my stories a lot. "~

I was wondering if anyone else has tried to work through story-telling or creative writing? I'm attempting a working of this sort right now. Basically I'm telling myself the story of something I want to achieve just before I go to sleep. My technique is pretty simple: tell the story in the present tense, as though it was really happening; include as much sensory information as possible; use the characters' proper names - in fact, I make sure to use the names a few times; use dialogue that, coupled with the actual story's content, reiterates what it is I hope to achieve; really focus on living the story, i.e. although my story is set sometime in the future I try to feel as though I'm living it, actually there, as much as possible. I get quite a powerful feeling from doing this but perhaps that's just the effect of telling myself pleasant tales. Every act or actuality starts with the vision of that act or actuality. If there is real desire and real love embedded in such a story then perhaps it will function in the same way?

It would be interesting to know if anyone else has any techniques or theories on this idea. I'm fascinated especially by the idea of the Aboriginal Dreamtime which, from what I gather, is the story of the world being dreamt into existence. Dreams to me are also narratives, albeit fractured and jumpy ones. The notion of dreaming things/events into existence seems to tie into the notion of writing or telling things/events into existence but as I can't get a handle on my dreams I feel it's easier to exercise some will over a waking narrative.

Has anyone had results with this technique? What's, in your opinion, the best way to go about it? It'd be cool if people would post their experiences with this area, kind of like the "body magic" thread.

Forgive me for rambling on. I've been in the library all day. Brain-melty.

SV
 
 
Quantum
08:03 / 24.04.03
If a narrative has that power, a shared narrative has more power (IMO). I tell a sequential story once a week to a few people (RPG) that I attempt to include themes I try to emphasize in my life (often Tarot symbolism and imagery) and it becomes a kind of memory palace of it's own, that I can tap for appropriate narratives to tell when needed.
Most people do the same thing but with TV. Coupland calls it 'teleparabalising', when someone says about a situation "Ooh! It's just like that time in Friends when Joey..." etc. I think the conscious telling of a narrative for a purpose is an extension of this tendency, and nifty magic
A friend of mine tells himself a story every night in bed before he goes to sleep, one episode a night- I like that as an idea, but he doesn't use it as a focus as far as I know. You should be able to guide your dreams that way- let us know if you get any results!
 
 
gravitybitch
16:05 / 24.04.03
There are a couple of threads on this general idea.

http://www.barbelith.com/underground/topic.php?id=11945 is one,

http://www.barbelith.com/underground/topic.php?id=11441 is another (sort of),

http://www.barbelith.com/underground/topic.php?id=1696 is one of the grand-daddies...

There are more (maybe in Creation?) that I can scrape up when I have more time. Narrative hypersigils seem to come up pretty regularly!
 
 
LVX23
16:50 / 24.04.03
slinkyvagabond wrote:
is it so far-fetched to think that an individual can also bring about a certain reality through narrative?

Not at all. I would say that much of good science fiction accomplishes this, leading the technology by imagination. Neuromancer is a fine example, Max Headroom, etc. Cyberspace, Virtual Actors, AI's - these things are gradually becoming reality in large part becasue of the mythos created by their authors. Cyberspace was given form in the narrative and it was done in such a cool way that tech geeks have been trying to make it reality ever since.

izabelle wrote:
Narrative hypersigils seem to come up pretty regularly!

Of course, Invisibles is a fine example of such a hypersigil...
 
 
delta venus
17:53 / 24.04.03
I've had the most success with this than any other forms ... so much so that there's been serious blowback every time, to the point where I stopped writing narratives altogether ...
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
18:28 / 24.04.03
Of course, Invisibles is a fine example of such a hypersigil...


Or Illuminatus by R.A.Wilson.

The Pentagon blows up~~~
 
 
slinkyvagabond
15:16 / 26.04.03
produkt, did you actually write your narratives or tell them to yourself? I'm not sure if I can bear to write down my stories, they're horribly personal and relate to people I know. That said, I definitely agree with Quantum, a shared narrative is in my mind absolutely proven to have more force. Given that I'm not sure I can bring myself to even write the damn thing I don't think I can share it. Perhaps "sharing" it with my journal would be enough?

Hypersigils, yeah. I only though of that after I'd written my first post and then logged out. The Invisibles was what brought me to Barbelith. I've got a lot of respect for it's power to change, my mindset has reconfigured itself somewhat since I fist read Say You Want A Revolution (money constraints have prevented me from getting past Apocalipstick and I'm determined to read them in order). Maybe the combination of words and images increases the power of the working?
 
 
C.Elseware
15:24 / 29.04.03
Could there be a flip side to this? Could there be books/films/stories which rather than having a positive effect on the reader and the world have a destructive one?

This is not ideal speculation, I recently absorbed a bit of media which has really had that effect. It had the same effect on a close friend over a decade ago. Since consuming said bit of media , I've been researching the creator, and they appear to be a fore-runner of both Morrison & chaos magick. Hmmm.

For obvious reasons I don't want to discus the work (yet) until I've fully worked out what it did.

Intially I assumed that it was deliberately harmful, a "magical" sabataur to screw you over, but the more I think about it, perhaps it's intended more as a the bop on the head from your zen master.

Has anyone else encountered anything similar? If so, how did you deal with it?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:16 / 02.05.03
Lick the spine of the book.

It's very hard for books to work their mojo on you when you have grossly invaded their sacred spaces with your tongue.

There's a Chi Gong meditation to produce saliva if you're dry. Or you can use lemon juice (I prefer the lemon juice, it seems more appropriate to what you're going to do next). Then you just line up on the offending literature, and brand it with your own identity, overwriting its venerated status and deconsecrating the physical aspect while the base, basic, pre-verbal magic of the body and the animal runs roughshod over the careful inscriptions on noetic space within the book. It's like standing in the forest and pissing around your clothes - raw, cold, and powerful.

Do it with conviction, though, or you'll end up dreaming that the book invaded you - like that French & Saunders sketch where Jennifer Saunders tries to use the Jedi Mindtrick on her goldfish and winds up making faces like a herring.
 
 
Baz Auckland
03:35 / 16.05.03
I came across this in What if Our World is Their Heaven? The Final Conversations of Philip K. Dick a few days ago. It looks like he was quite successful in a unintentional and sometimes unfortunate way at magical narratives. (p.46-53)

Dick: So evidently, you know, there’s some interaction between my actual life and my characters but what’s causing this effect I don’t know. I mean, I’ve actually read books of mine where I could not tell, literally could not tell, if the women were based on women I had known, or – what the sequence was. I mean, reading one book and there seemed to be a description of one of my wives in there, and, uh, down to the length of hair, and verbal mannerisms and kinetic build, you know, body build, the type of body.

And it went on and on and on and I thought, I certainly used an awful lot of that particular wife in this book and discovered that I’d written the book five years before I met her. Which is really scary. I mean, that’s super scary, because when I met her I didn’t remember, it’d been five years since I’d written the book. So I didn’t make the connection, and then the book – it took a long time for the book to get published and when it finally got published and comes out and I read it and I think, golly, that’s a description of this particular woman, and then I discovered, looking through my files, I wrote the book before I met this particular woman. I

n fact, there was one, one book that I did that was just incredible. I do not understand this at all. Uh, I described this girl, I gave her age, her name, her hair colour, her job, the name of her husband, and two months later I met –

(tape ends)

....

Dick: The same age, the same name. She had the same occupation.

Lee: As in the book?

Dick: As in the book I had written but had not even done the final draft on. I had written the book and put the manuscript away. And, uh, it was, the thing, was incredibly strange, that is simply unbelievable – it cannot be, but it is – is that in the novel, the woman appears to be doing something illegal and then finally we discover that she is a police informant. I met this girl, same name, same age, boyfriend the same name, and she appeared to be a drug dealer. And after I had known her for about a year – just pure accidental circumstances – uh, she had to admit to me that she was a police informant. That’s exactly what the girl in the book turns out to be, a police informant. Now I could have gone back to my own book and looked it up and found out this girl was a police informant – if I just saw, you know, the parallel with the book, but I had forgotten.

And only when I finally went to do the final draft did I notice that it was the same name, the boyfriend – in the book it’s a marriage, it’s the husband – has that name. But in real life it was the boyfriend. The boyfriend is the same name. And the age of the woman is the same. Details – and detail after detail is the same. In fact, I’ve even been-

Lee: But there must be some term, you know, there’s precog-

Dick: That’s the term, yeah-

Lee: Remembering your-

Dick: Precognition, yeah. That I’ve been accused of actually showing precognition. Uh, for instance, I had one book where I described, that I wrote in the 60s- where it talks about, you know, Nixon being president of the United States and everything like that. Of course, there were ones where I was completely messed up, I even had the FBI and stuff like, I tried all the different combinations- but, uh, I do sometimes describe characters that I have yet to meet.

And, I, you know, I now no longer tell whether the characters that I have written about are based on people I have know, or whether it works the other way, or how it works, but there is some connection, some essential connection between my characters and actual people.
 
 
cusm
16:57 / 16.05.03
A reference to Dune immediately comes to mind. Mainly, that precognition isn't forseeing the future, its writing it. Makes sense in a quantum sort of way, doesn't it? All new applications of this idea with the magickal narrative idea.
 
 
slinkyvagabond
21:23 / 18.05.03
mm, yeah that's an interesting application of the basic idea but a little disappointing if you're trying to use will to influence the future using narrative as a medium/sigil.
 
 
slinkyvagabond
21:32 / 18.05.03
...and I accidentally posted that before writing the rest of what I'm trying to say...I mean, disappointing because now that you mention it it seems like precognition in narrative is probably more likely to work than conciously attempting to influence the future. You know, like the way sigils work when you forget about them. Although this would be a kind of "pre-forgetting" - inability to recall what has not yet happened.

And no, so far no good with the stories. Getting to the point where I just feel fucking silly and thinking that maybe these stories are just allowing me to obssess on something that would be better let go. A few times I've really got the feeling that they were going to come true though but maybe they're going to come true in an unexpected way.

Damn interesting times, grrr...
SV
 
 
Quantum
08:46 / 19.05.03
precognition isn't forseeing the future, its writing it. Makes sense in a quantum sort of way, doesn't it?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
12:29 / 19.05.03
Or Illuminatus by R.A.Wilson.

The Pentagon blows up~~~


The Pentagon also gets blown up, in almost exactly the same way as 9/11, in the Marvel New Universe special somethingorother The Draft... or The War, maybe. One of those. Dreadful.
 
 
adamswish
14:08 / 20.05.03
these stories are just allowing me to obssess on something that would be better let go

or maybe, rather than keep telling the story over and over again you should write it down then lock it away. Apply the "fire and forget" method of sigil creation to the narrative.

Write out your future scenario then, I don't know, bury it, burn it, lock it up in a cupboard and hide the key.

I suppose the theory of all this is to remove that particular desire from you and place it into the external. That way you have released a part within you that can be used for constructive purposes and create the end result you wrote of and placed away from you.

I'm interested in this too, mainly because I have a problem in the forget part of the energising of sigils. How are you wording this narratives. Is it an elongated desire line, the such you would write before collapsing down to a sigil? Or is it a reportage of how your life will be in X amount of days/months/years?
 
 
slinkyvagabond
22:51 / 21.05.03
I have a problem with the "forget" part too. A serious problem. I was thinking about burning my story but I quite like it, it's well written in places. Still, yes, it has to be let go of somehow.

Anyway, in answer to your question I wrote/told it as a reportage of my hoped-for future (well, a specific part of my hoped-for future). The idea behind that was that if I could envision/write said future with great clarity and detail that somehow that would make it more real. I don't claim to understand the mechanics, I just had the notion if I wrote it as though it had already happened....Things become true because we say and believe them. That's not some sort of "postmodern" idea, it happens all the time. The "new magickal systems" thread is going into this a bit - god/essess retain their power because of force of belief (also the issue in Terry Prachett's "Small Gods" if I remember correctly). Of course the difficulty with that re narratives is that often they're personal and not subject to the force of consensus beliefs - perhaps basing it around a mythic trope would give it more power (mine's kind of a typical story in many ways).

As for forgetting about it, that's the hard part.

SV
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:45 / 22.05.03
I believe Grant charged an issue of Invisibles by marking a sigil on his chest and then bungee jumping off a bridge while holding the comic. Add some kind of ritual with the actual piece you write.
 
 
adamswish
11:59 / 22.05.03
one idea that comes to me about forcing your prefered future into consensus reality is to tell your story to others, sort of.

How about going on any number of the chat rooms out there on the internet as the character you are in your narrative and telling people about your life. Or failling that chose a social setting where you are unknown and live the fantasy for an hour or so.

Maybe incorporate it into a ritual of some kind: gather and calm yourself; draw your protection to you then go somewhere (whether real or virtual) and be the narrative, tell people how your life is and how you got there. Then after some time has elapsed, come back to yourself and end with any banishing you wish to choose.

This way, to my mind at least, you are expanding your narrative into the consenus reality. Okay it may be limited and you may encounter some resistance to this injection of your desire into the world, but it could work on a chinese whispers kind of level, where one believes and passes it on.

Plus you don't have to worry about the forgetting bit as all you have done is a piece of role play, seen if the narrative has the stenght to forefill it's task.

Another way of incorporating this is if you are part of, or have access to a drama class, place the narrative into that; or exchange narratives with others (maybe from here) and each of us be someone's desired future for a day.
 
 
slinkyvagabond
20:56 / 22.05.03
mm, those suggestions certainly make sense, I'll see what I can do. Thanks a million.
 
 
illmatic
08:50 / 23.05.03
One thing that occurs to me, if I'm not mistaken, is that the magick of "The Invisbles" occured unconsciously, that is Grant wrote the things and then they happened - he didn't do this intentionally. Mucho like the Phil Dick stuff mentioned above ie. a form of divination - his writing expressed forthcoming events and illness in his life, that he was unconsciously aware of.

I think maybe just have a playful attitude towards things, write a lot of stories and lose 'em etc. - my understanding of magick, is that it's the letting go/un-selfconsciousness that's important. Drop em down the side of the bed, under the table etc. and leave them for a while. Write other amazing narratives for yourself and others.

I think the problem with just stating or asserting that something is true, is that in doing so we remind ourselves that it's not and it creates a kind of unconscious struggle. It needs to happen in a kind of playful way, that slips past this conflict, I think. I think all the belief systems surounding magick are in a sense stories/narratives we tell ourselves to facilitae this weird stuff happening - it's kind of like we need to licence ourselves to believe in breaking the lawsof physics, so all the baggage belief and ritual is a prop to trick us into working magick. (I'm not claiming it always works for me either - it's just that this is an explanation that makes sense to me)not that it alwaysworks for me

Another technique - slightly different intent. This comes from "The Black Goddess & The Sixth Sense" by Peter Redgrove, I know GM has used this idea (read it in an interview, may have been one of the things that prompted me to buy the book). Sealed Writing - basically, you take a diary, and at a convenient quiet and relaxed time, say before going to bed, you write automatically as much as possible, for 20 min or so, whatever comes into your head. You don't read it after but close the book, and do the same thing the next night, and so on, for a couple of months, or a month at least.

At the end of this period of time you go back and read it,or get someone else to read it for you. Redgrove states:

In such a script there never fails to occur a confusion, then at the height of this, a relaxation, followed, by a synthaesthia: the senses come together in words and some beautiful image appears; moreover, that image and its theme are likely to surface again and again, forming at last a coherent statement which you yourself will be unaware of, until you read it...Language, which can handle all the senses, thought and feeling to, clears like a magic mirror to the supersensible, which includes one's inner senses and further personality.

So in this way, you're bringing unconscious information in through the medium of writing. For Redgrove, your unconscious is your physicality and your senses, esp. smell. GM has stated that he's used this technique in Doom Patrol (makes a lot of sense really). I tried it for a while myself, and it didn't blow me away, but I think I might have been being too-heavyhanded with it, too much lust of result. I did get some beutiful lyrical passages out of it though - one I remember is "an erratic moment of liquid karate" which I'd never come up with consciously in a million years. There are some other experiments with automatic writing in Keith Johnstone's book "Impro" (which is absolutely fantastic).
 
 
adamswish
14:17 / 23.05.03
I think the problem with just stating or asserting that something is true, is that in doing so we remind ourselves that it's not and it creates a kind of unconscious struggle.

Kind of like a paradox almost. Or turning yourself around on a constant morbius strip of remebering the writing = remembering the intention.

Like the idea of "unconsious writing", stream on consious, writing off the top of your head, no fixed idea of where it's going, just writing for the sake of writing (but more so in this case). Just like I'm doing now and do with my on-line journal.

But still we have to find a way of "masking" our intention in the creation of these magickal narratives. A fool-proof way of making this work for us without thinking about it. Think I shall ask for advice in a new thread.
 
  
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