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Underground > Radio & Music >

Pavement: which discs?

The Return Of Rothkoid

03:41 / 23.04.03

Right. The $10 CD shop (three quid-ish) down the road is selling Pavement albums cheap. What they've got, from memory:
Terror Twilight
Slanted And Enchanted
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain,
Brighten The Corners,
Westing (By Musket and Sextant).

Someone talk me through this. Which is worth getting? Which is shit? Am I going to want to punch Steve? Explaiiin! They're gonna go fairly quickly, and I'd like to know which - maybe three? - are worth getting.

04:18 / 23.04.03

Start with Slanted, and then wait another 30 seconds for Flux = Malkmus Encyclopedia to arrive. He'll take it from there.

09:50 / 23.04.03

in brief -

Slanted.. and Crooked Rain are both ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE GENIUS.

Brighten the Corners & Terror Twilight are merely Very Good Indeed.

Westing.. I haven't heard.

I guess Pavement are one of those groups where if you like them, you'll love everything they've ever done, and if you don't like them, you won't like any of it. Kinda thing.

Matthew Fluxington

11:22 / 23.04.03

You know, I'd just tell you to buy them all. They're all wonderful for their own reasons. I'd hold off on Westing, it is a compilation of their first few 7" EPs and though it contains some excellent music, it's not exactly consistent or perfectly listenable.

re: Slanted & Enchanted - I wouldn't buy it unless it was the recently released 2-disc expanded version, which is a better buy. All of the extra songs that are on the reissue really are worth it, and it's a nice one-stop shopping sort of thing. If it is the 2 cd set, then go for that one first.

Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain is probably the most accessable Pavement record, and spring/summer classic. I'd recommend going for that one first.

Wowee Zowee is my favorite album, and it is the weirdest and most epic Pavement record, the one that is most similar to their live sound.

Brighten The Corners is their semi-pastoral mellow "let's jam on this one for a minute or two" record, the one with a lot of lyrics about being in yr mid-30s and having all of your friends get married and settling down. It has a very nice feeling the whole way through, and contains some of the best Malkmus lyrics ever penned.

Terror Twilight is the final LP, and some people don't like it as much. It contains some very lovely love songs, a couple bitter break up tunes, a couple very sad late Velvet Underground kind of songs, a couple silly songs, and a sinister psychedelic slow-burner called "The Hexx" with one of the best evil guitar riffs ever. It's a great way to call it a day, I think.

See also: this thread.

The Return Of Rothkoid

23:58 / 25.04.03

So, I'll be eating soup until payday.

I went to the store and picked em all up except Slanted... I'll eventually get the remaster, I s'pose, even though it's forty fucking dollars here. But for less than the price of two new CDs, I got almost all the band's albums, which is a reasonable bargain. As for what I think? I like. There's some good stuff here, and I want to punch steve a lot less than I thought I would.

I've also been having some buried memory syndrome thing happening: I'm vaguely remembering a show I saw in the early-mid 90s. At The Metro, here in Sydney. I got in for free, somehow, and remember being markedly unimpressed at the shambly-ass performance. But who knows.

00:22 / 26.04.03

Flux: I'm really not all that keen on Brighten. It never seems to go anywhere and takes a long time doing so. There's none of the hooks or style of the others and it just seems very half-arsed. Oddly, I absolutely love Terror Twilight and can't think of anything particularly negative to say about it - if we're ranking the albums, it's got to be Wowee Zowee in the top spot then this, for my money. Hell, it's got Carrot Rope on it, which makes me all the more bewildered that others didn't like it.

Not to hijack the thread here, but what's the general feeling about Pig Lib? It's taken me a while, but I'm slowly coming around to liking it. There's definitely a couple of fine tunes on there, but it does tend to meander and lose the plot a bit.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

01:25 / 26.04.03

Rothkoid - Why did you think you'd want to punch Steve?

On Pavements albums myself... I only just go in to them recently, and I love them all. They're all so good in so many different ways, but I fail to see how some people can't appreciate them all. Although, having said that, I've not heard all of Brighten. But I will. The first two tracks are a couple of my favourite songs in themselves.

As for Pig Lib, well, I heard a bit on the internet, and was unsure then. By the time I picked up the album the other week, I'd come to love it all quite dearly. I see what people mean when they comment on plot losing and meandering moments - and the album doesn't sem popular at all - but I listened to it in the sunshine and had one of those moments where it all came together and made perfect sense and it's been absolutely pleasurable to listen to since then. I'm hoping a lot of other people have this kind of moment and come back going "oh, I see...."

Matthew Fluxington

02:49 / 26.04.03

I don't really know what to tell you about Brighten The Corners - it's a lot of people's favorite Pavement album, but they are a minority, and they are often the people who don't particularly like half of the band's catalog. Go figure.

BTC has a very different feeling and approach from the other four Pavement albums, and I think for a lot of people, it is a major grower. I think the songs will come to you, maybe not right away, but if you give them some time they'll get inside of you and never leave. I don't think it is any less catchy than any other Pavement record, especially when you have tunes like "Old To Begin," "Blue Hawaiian," "Stereo," and my personal favorite from that LP, "Transport Is Arranged." If it means anything to you, I think that the BTC songs are mostly better when played live than as recorded for the album, but the differences aren't all that dramatic. They just come alive a bit more when played live, particularly "Stereo," which is the Ultimate Pavement Live Song.

Pig Lib is guitartastic. No one's going to come close to making a pop guitar album as good as it this year.

The Return Of Rothkoid

05:25 / 26.04.03

Suedehead: I don't know why. Something about some interviews I'd read, or... something. He just seemed like an irritating motherfucker.

But then, this was in early university days. I used to think everyone, myself included, was an irritating motherfucker.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:42 / 26.04.03

Brighten The Corners - it's a lot of people's favorite Pavement album, but they are a minority, and they are often the people who don't particularly like half of the band's catalog.

*raises hand nervously*

Largely on the basis of 'Stereo' (and my favourite Pavement lyric ever, the one that starts with "what about the voice of Geddy Lee?" and ends "and you're my fact-checkin' cuz! (awww)"; 'Shady Lane'; 'Transport Is Arranged'; and 'Passat Dream' which is probably my favourite Pavement song, and I suspect not a big hit with a lot of their fans...

15:09 / 26.04.03

Don't get me wrong, there are tracks on Brighten that I really like, it's just that they're outnumbered by those that sound, to me, like the band are treading water - We Are Underused, Starlings Of The Slipstream, Infinite Spark and the terrible Date With Ikea. Even the presence of the Geddy Lee call and response can't make up for that one.

Murray Hamhandler

16:34 / 26.04.03

"Passat" is the first song that pops into my head whilst thinking about Brighten, as well, Flyboy.

That said, Brighten is also the only Pavement album that I haven't listened the shit out of. I never really could get too into it*.

And it absolutely tickles me pink to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that Wowee is the pick of the litter. It just grows and grows in my esteem (moreso since it seems like I finally really heard "Father to a Sister of Thought" when I saw the video on Slow Century...that song had always somehow slipped through the cracks for me, and I don't know how now).

*Unless you count Pig Lib, which I'm still in the process of trying to parse.

Matthew Fluxington

19:59 / 26.04.03

I think my mind nearly collapsed in on itself when you dissed "FIN." aka "Infinite Spark," Randy.

And I love "IKEA" - it's one of Spiral's best tunes.

Flyboy - you've got to hear "Passat" live, it's a bit funkier/faster and has some really excellent extra wah guitar by Malkmus.

21:01 / 26.04.03

Yeah, 'Date With Ikea' is awesome. (could there be a Pavement fan battle brewing?)

I do agree though that, despite having a handful of flawlessly wonderful songs, Brighten the Corners is the one Pavement album that I find hearing all the way through is slightly less than a wholly joyful experience.

The lyrics are great, but all the needlessly intricate, meandering arrangements just have me grinding my teeth. Malkmus's occasional prog-guitar-virtuoso wig-outs are by far my least favourite aspect of his music, which is why I still have a nasty feeling I'm not going to like Pig Lib much..
I know a lot of Pavement/SM's best songs are actually a bit complex, but with classic Pavement it sounds as if they're just flawlessly picking the beautiful melodies out of the air, whereas on 'Brighten..', it's like they're struggling really hard to find them, but never really getting there..

21:06 / 26.04.03

seems like I finally really heard "Father to a Sister of Thought" when I saw the video on Slow Century

The same for me, kind of, when they play "Grounded" at the Manchester show. You know, where's he's playing guitar behind his head and stuff. Fantastic. All of the sudden, that became my favorite Pavement song.

Brainstorm - a CD of Wowee Zowee, same running order, except all LIVE versions of each track. I don't really like how some of the songs were recorded on that record, but live they're all killer. Do you have a good live versions of "AT&T," Flux? Didn't Malkmus always complain they couldn't play that correctly live?

And Flux is correct re: 'Passat' - far better live, with the wahwah guitar parts.

I'm of the opinion that the albums Malkmus produced himself (S&E, CRCR, Stephen Malkmus, and Pig Lib) sound much better than the ones produced by outsiders.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

22:23 / 26.04.03

I just have too much music goodness right now. I mean, I've listened to Wowee Zowee countless times in the time I've had it... but I haven't listened to it enough.

I got Pig Lib just the other day, and so I had to listen to that a lot. But I haven't heard it enough yet.

But I had to put Wowee Zowee on again because of this thread, and hey ho! It sounds like newness to me. Familiar newness, but fresh nontheless. Rattled by the rush! I love this song.

But then, I'll need a bit more of water and a seat soon.

And I'm forgetting that I finally got round to picking up evol the other day. And add in to that that I don't feel like I've fully listened to S+E and well...

Too much music is bad. My head may well pop, or I may collapse due to too much happiness induced jumping around-ness.

And good lord, I only heard Stereo properly the other day. Won't someone help me? I feel like I need to have all this information inplanted in my head. It's just... too short a space of time... and too much to take in... but I need it.

I like this band, you know. (Well, Pavement + the Jicks)

Do I even have BTC and malk's first album yet? No, no I do not.
Have I seen the dvd? Well no, no I haven't.

Do I even have a dvd player? Well... no.

I will stop now.

Matthew Fluxington

23:51 / 26.04.03

Brainstorm - a CD of Wowee Zowee, same running order, except all LIVE versions of each track. I don't really like how some of the songs were recorded on that record, but live they're all killer. Do you have a good live versions of "AT&T," Flux? Didn't Malkmus always complain they couldn't play that correctly live?

For real? Are you sure you're not talking about BTC? Most of the WZ songs aren't as great live, honestly. I have a crazy number of live Pave cds/tapes, and they never really gave half of WZ a real shot live. "Half A Canyon" was usually played as a half-assed jam at the end of WZ-era shows, "Serpentine Pad" and "Flux = Rad" were almost never played, and the times when they were played they were radically altered. "Western Homes" was never performed live to my knowledge, and "Motion Suggests" was extremely rare but I do have one recording of it from European radio somewhere. "Pueblo," "Best Friend's Arm" and "Extradition" also had different lyrics and structures live, and "Brinx Job" was almost always played as an instrumental.

I think Wowee Zowee is perfect in just about every way. It's my favorite album ever, and I'm not shy about saying so.

Matthew Fluxington

23:58 / 26.04.03

re: "AT&T"

I have a couple live versions from 1995, but they are all lo-fi and I don't think either of them nearly as good as the album recording in terms of performance.

I have one of them on MP3, in the fairly common Brewstock 95 recording. It's not a wreck, it's just not amazing. "AT&T" remains one of the songs that I really wish I could've seen them play. I wish that I could trade a couple live performances of "Cream Of Gold" for an "AT&T," a "Rattled By The Rush," and a "Shoot The Singer." Oh yeah, and a "Silent Kid."

The weirdest thing about WZ is how it is the closest Pavement ever come to sounding as they do live on record, but they really couldn't pull most of it off when they played live. Some of the WZ songs are sublime when played live - "Grounded," "Kennel D," "Grave Architecture," "Rattled By The Rush," "Father To A Sister Of Thought," but the wilder more improv-y songs really seem to live in the moment when they were recorded, which is part of the album's greatness in some ways.

08:29 / 03.05.03

"Date with Ikea" is definitely one of my top-five all-time favorite Pavement songs.

But oh! As for the most amazingly best live song, I don't know, I think the selection of "Stereo" might lead to some debate. I nominate "Unfair" for this title, even though I always thought the one line was "Swingin' nachos like you just don't care" instead of "Swingin' out just like you just don't care."

11:27 / 03.05.03

Just got to say - I was at the penultimate gig in Manchester, and when "Grounded" tinkled into life I was on the verge of tears. It seemed to sum up a lot of personal things - something clicked inside me, I felt ... defined. If that makes any sense. I wasn't aware of the contents of the Slow Century DVD before it came out, but when I picked it up and read the blurb, I could not stop grinning. If only the WHOLE gig was on there!

I kind of want to type more, but I'm currently in the middle of some serious ego-destruction stuff, and opinions feel dirty. Maybe some other time!

Matthew Fluxington

12:03 / 03.05.03

Oh, "Unfair" is definitely one of the finest live Pavement tunes. I rate "Stereo" a little higher because of the band's penchant for playing the song a little differently each time, they were always very playful with the song and it always feels so much more alive in performance than on the album version. "Unfair" is always fantastic live, but I've yet to hear a live version better than the album version.

I've never heard "swinging out like you just don't care" before. The debate has always been "swinging nachos like you just don't care" vs. "swinging nunchucks like you just don't care." I prefer nunchucks, personally, but the evocation of a cheap mass-produced Americanized version of Mexican cuisine makes a lot of sense in a song about southern California.

03:49 / 04.05.03

Huh, I've never heard the "swingin' nunchucks" version. (I always thought the word was numchucks?) For some reason, I felt like the "swingin' out" line had been determined to be the real line, like that information was handed down from a knowledgeable source. But I can't remember exactly, which is pretty useless.