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Underground > Comic Books >

Cry "Havok" and loose the dogs of war

22:01 / 19.04.03

The lesser Summers brother, Havok, how did he return to "normal" X-Men continuity? Last I remember he was destroyed by sentinels and had inhibited his "alternate self", how did he return?

22:14 / 19.04.03

Or more importantly...when will we see the mini series with a hologram cover that tells us about the third summers brother???

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

22:40 / 19.04.03

a) He was found amnesic with no memories and a scar that is the only nod to the events in Mutant X continuity. Word is that they're not going to refer to anything the happened in Mutant X.

b) The 3rd Summers Brother is named Adam X and is off in space somwhere.

Matthew Fluxington

22:44 / 19.04.03

Havok has returned to regular continuity in recent issues of Chuck Austen's Uncanny X-Men. He has recently come back to conciousness after being in a coma for a few months, during which the crazy school nurse character has developed a thoroughly unhealthy romantic attachment to him. To make matters worse, Havok's ex-girlfriend Polaris (who is inexplicably being written as a psychotic bitch by Austen) has proposed to him after two minutes after seeing him for the first time in a few years. That all sounds pretty crazy, right? It gets worse: it seems like Havok is going to go along with this whole marriage thing for no good reason other than to make this implausible love triangle situation seem more melodramatic, and to somehow make the reader feel greater sympathy for the very creepy Annie.

Chuck Austen really makes the worst issues of the X-Men as written by Scott Lobdell and Fabian Nicieza in the mid-90s seem like thoughtful and considered pieces of ficton, doesn't he? His stories seem as though they are being improvised every month by a very dim-witted ten year old boy. I kept tabs on Joe Casey's Uncanny for the train wreck factor, and I never thought it would actually get significantly worse after his departure, but boy has it ever.

Matthew Fluxington

22:54 / 19.04.03

By the way, the third Summers brother is most definitely not Adam X (aka X-Treme). He was intended to be by Fabian Nicieza, but the character has since been ditched and Marvel has made a policy decision to not let the character return. (In part because they would prefer to keep the word "X-Treme" limited to the current Chris Claremont X-Men series)

You can read about the myth of the third Summers brother right here.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

23:44 / 19.04.03

I don't think the Lorna thing is as out of left field as other people do, I guess. She was always written as a bit unstable (especially when she first showed up as drawn by Sternanko and thought she was Magneto's daughter until he told her she was crazy), and in the last few issues of X-Factor (which were painful), her relationship to Havok was strained at best.

I can see her acting like this as a linear progression of that history. The proposal seems to me like a power and control issue with her trying to "claim" Alex as a prize.

Matthew Fluxington

03:24 / 20.04.03

Yeah, I'd agree that Lorna has always been unstable - you add the fact that she's been possessed at least twice, lied to about her family a few times over, and that she witnessed the Genoshan massacre to her list of problems - but the way Austen is writing her is so flat and horrible. It makes sense for her to be insane, but that's just not quite how it is coming out. It seems like a good idea to explore poor fucked-up Lorna Dane, but Austen is such an amateurish writer that he can barely even scratch the surface without making a mess of it.

The Natural Way

08:53 / 20.04.03

Hey thgis thread's called 'Cry "Havok" and loose the dogs of war!' and, guess what, it's about HAVOK!

Has to be the most annoying thread title ever. I applaud you.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

10:32 / 20.04.03

Misquoted Shakespeare is perfectly suited for discussions about the most hackneyed portrail of absolutly shite characters isn't it?

16:45 / 20.04.03

The third Summers brother is clearly Anti-Matter, from X-Force #129.

17:54 / 20.04.03

Austen mentioned down in X Fan that he would get to explain what happened with the "soul" of the evil Havok from the Mutant X Universe. Perhaps it was that shadow that tried to get him in the astral. I hope Austen doesn't forget that weird relationship Havok had with Wolfsbane

Professor Silly

18:39 / 20.04.03

sometimes Flux makes me giggle.

I...HATE...Chuck Austin.....

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

19:02 / 20.04.03

I think the third Summers brother should be Jean...

Hell, they've done stupider plot twists. Maybe it could be Madeline Pryor?

Matthew Fluxington

19:49 / 20.04.03

Ugh. I bet Austen would like to explore the relationship of Havok and Wolfsbane, and every other obscure forgotten-by-everyone-but-continuity pedants relationship. It's pure fanfic fluff, devoid of ideas entirely. It reads sort of like watching a little kid play with his X-Men action figures, with some 'romance' plotlines which seem as though the author knows nothing about human interaction besides what they've learned from watching brainless Disney Channel children's sitcoms.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

20:20 / 20.04.03

He's really creepy in the way he writes female characters as well.

From some stuff I've heard him say, he had a bad relationship with his dad and Juggernaut is pure fan-fic self insertion stuff.

Matthew Fluxington

21:05 / 20.04.03

Ugh. Let's not even get into the way Austen writes poor gay Northstar.

You're right about the Juggernaut thing, and it is just so much weirder with the questionable relationship that the Juggernaut has with the fish-faced kid too. Ah, but is it 'fanfic self-insertion,' or is it a fictionsuit, and Austen is dealing with ideas of fiction and reality? I'm just kidding!

I think the word "creepy" is really the best way to describe the content of Austen's X-Men, but not in any good way. It just reads as though it was written by a person with little to no social contact for people with little to no social contact, which I guess doesn't make it entirely different from most superhero fiction. Somehow there's a difference, a certain kind of ineffable creepiness about Austen's writing, like it may be weird obsessive fanfic that I'm not supposed to see.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

21:42 / 20.04.03

There's no real NEED for Uncanny, is there? They could streamline the entire X-line down to New and Wolverine. They SHOULD streamline the entire X-line down to New and Wolverine. Or give Uncanny to Morrison or even Millar.

22:06 / 20.04.03

Or Adam Warren. Or John Smith. Who appear to be very talented writers in comic limbo.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

22:21 / 20.04.03

Fuck, I love John Smith's 2000ad stuff. A little too disturbing for a mainstream title, though?

Matthew Fluxington

22:25 / 20.04.03

No, I think X-Treme is a necessary comic for a few reasons.

1) I think Claremont and his fans deserve to have their Claremont X-Men.

2) I think that it is logical to have a group of X-Men who are doing something other than what the NXM characters are doing. I think that there are important X-characters in X-Treme that shouldn't be cast aside because they don't fit into NXM - Storm, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Gambit, even Cannonball and Bishop.

It wouldn't make sense for Grant to write both Uncanny and NXM, NXM is intentionally self-contained. Mark Millar's been having his fun with his fake X-Men, it is doubtful that he'd ever want to play with X-Men with all of the rules of the regular Marvel Universe after having that kind of creative freedom with the Ultimate version.

I'm not sure who I'd hire to write Uncanny were it up to me - my honest answer is that I'd probably hire someone from here, probably Flyboy.

I do like the idea of Uncanny being the traditional superhero X-Men comic without the Claremont flavor, I think that is a good niche. If he wasn't exclusive to DC, I think Judd Winnick would be a good fit for Uncanny.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

01:50 / 21.04.03

I don't mind X-treme either. I don't much like it, but let's face it, Chris Claremont made Marvel INSANE amounts of money and gets next to no royalties. If he can write an X-book that sells enough to make a profit, they should let him...and it keeps his fans happy, who just don't follow him to other books for some reason.

I kind of see it as his pension.

01:59 / 21.04.03

Fuck, I love John Smith's 2000ad stuff. A little too disturbing for a mainstream title, though?

Not necessarily.

John Smith has actually written an X-Men short story, in X-Men Unlimited #35. It wasn't his best, mind you.

Matthew Fluxington

02:27 / 21.04.03

I like the idea of X-Treme being Claremont's pension. That's probably how Marvel thinks of it too, in some ways. Ideally, he would get loads of money for his old work, but that's not going to happen.

Chris Claremont has done some wonderful work and practically redefined superhero comics with his art partners over the course of 20 years - he deserves credit and kudos even if his current writing is pretty stale.

I've got a huge soft spot for Chris Claremont. If it weren't for him, I probably would have never gotten hooked on comics.

04:14 / 21.04.03

Claremont laid the foundation of what Morrison is able to create now, just as Stan and Jack laid the foundation for him. HE serves a purpose to The X-Men eternally because of that, despite his somewhat lackluster current writing. But his book definetly serves a purpose and makes a lot of his fans happy....

... But Uncanny? God, die already. I'm sorry, but Austen does nothing for me. I agree his sotries seem like unpolished fanfic from hell, but the problem is that I don't think "his" book really needs to be put out, much as I feel Claremont's does.

17:28 / 21.04.03

By the way, the third Summers brother is most definitely not Adam X

hehehe.. a pretty good DJ if you're into the HARDCORE!!!

I always liked Havok, but found him rarely used well...

As for Uncanny... I figure they won't cancel it cause it was the Original title... so they'll want to keep that series running. I always feel like the title should be the point where the X-men meet the rest of the marvel universe. Superhero stuff... borrowed villians Dr DOOM...etc... and plenty of guest appearances...

What with the X-corperation the series could easily follow various teams on missions of their own. There certainly are enough X-charactors to keep it interesting...

Hell, nearly any writter would be better that UPchuck Austin!!!

Professor Silly

15:14 / 22.04.03

...except maybe Scott Lobdell

It seems like Uncanny lost the intended direction in relation to NXM--namely that in Uncanny we would see the field team conducting search and rescue. Instead it has devolved into meaningless soap opera (as oppoosed to Grant's meaningFUL soap opera).

I know: let's kill Chuck Austin!!!

15:32 / 22.04.03

I second that emotion. And I apologise forthwith for my gushing comments about last ishoo of UXM. Last issue was great if you're drunk, on drugs, or doing a lot of magic. Which was why I liked it,and still see it as the high point of Austen's run (in that it was easily the most unintentionally camp mainstream superhero book I've ever read). But this issue sucked dead dogs' cocks.

I say we go with Mr Tricks' suggestion - putting Dr Doom in UXM as a big villain for a few issues, handled by, say, that guy who writes Nikolai Dante for 2000 Ad, would be a lot better than Austen and his Paedonaut epic.

Plus, they could legitimately put 'Morrison' on the cover of UXM, and watch sales double overnight! Am I a marketing genius, or what?

Hey, Stan! Hire me! Now!

19:10 / 22.04.03

Dr. DOOM would be great funn... followed by the RED SKULL??? or maybe...

M.O.D.O.K.

also lets find a better artist... like the guy who illustrated Outlaw Nation or... me!!!

21:25 / 22.04.03

I think it would work...A swashbuckling epic with the X-men behind enemy lines in Latveria, unable to contact Prof X, with Nightcrawler returning to his impish swordsman persona to do battle with Victor von Doom. Castles! Fencing! Adventure!

(and a plausible reason to keep them out of NXM continuity, too...)

And then in the next story we bring back Colossus to beat the shit out of Juggernaut for interfering with minors!

And then Annie and a powerless Lorna kill each other in a savage bout of hand-to-hand combat! In a pool full of mud! In bikinis!

And then Havok turns gay and gets jiggy with Northstar!

And then Cyclops explodes!

Say what you want, my friends, it's still better than Austen. Not by much, but it's better than Austen...

(which is what I'm going to say next time I'm being violated by a mutant polar bear on steroids...)