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Death In June: Please Explain

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:51 / 19.04.03
So. I'm wondering if anyone can explain the whole Death In June/Nazi thing to me? Or can explain DIJ in general? I don't know what they're really about, and would like a guide to them. How'd the Nazi link come to be? Is it what drives 'em? Whaaat? I'm not Right On enough to know the story already, and am curious, as I hear it bandied about a lot. I quite liked the little loop that ran on their website, though this does not a canon represent, I spose.

So. Please explain. They're apparently playing tomorrow night at the Annandale Hotel - literally five minutes away - but I don't feel comfortable giving a CD's worth of money to a buncha neo-Nazis, if that's what they be. Gimme a bit of guidance, people.

Oh, and what the fuck is up with that mask thing?

I'm expecting Stoatie to rock the house here, incidentally.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:33 / 19.04.03
The house will indeed be rocked, Roth.

Okay. As far as I can remember off the top of my head, there used to be a punk band called Crisis, made up of Douglas Pearce and Tony Wakeford. Hard-core Marxists.

Becoming disillusioned with the far left, they became fascinated by the far right, and ended up forming Death In June (named, as far as I can tell, after Mishima's "Death in Midsummer"- Mishima was always something of a DIJ idol- one of their better points).

Personally, I used to love DIJ, until I realised that Douglas P was actually really into this shit. I still listen to them, but I now try not to give them any money. (Last time I saw 'em live, they were great- but I kind of wish I hadn't gone). Therefore I haven't heard their last (I think) album "All Pigs Must Die" (whose title, apparently, refers, not to some ethnic minority, but to the staff at World Serpent).

Tony Wakeford left early on (though both he and Douglas P collaborated with David Tibet for a while, giving Current 93 their "apocalyptic folk" style), and formed Sol Invictus, who, while still being a deal to the right of, say, me for example, seemed to have dropped the whole Nazi thing (and, according to Stewart Home, who used to know the pair when they were Crisis but ditched them when they turned to fascism, Wakeford severed all links with the far right a few years back) and are actually better than Death In June anyway.

Listen to Current 93's "A Song For Douglas After He's Dead" for a more amusing perspective on Mr Pearce (on which he plays guitar. He must have realised Tibet was taking the piss?)

There's a swastika carved in the palm of his hand
There's a crooked cross that has caught in his mind
There waits a falling sun in his eyes
There's the honour of violence on his lips

...

under two willow trees with Elhaz inverted
the fork of life snapped

...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:40 / 19.04.03
Oh, and as regards immediate "going to see" advice- they are good live. But I'd try and blag a freebie if I was you, rather than giving them any money. And be prepared for there to be a bunch of wankers in the crowd (as well as in the band).
 
 
--
23:17 / 19.04.03
I've never heard death in june, but another band I've seen get shitted on a lot on this board is Whitehouse, which I don't have a problem with as everyone's entitled to their own opinion, though ironically Whitehouse barely even resembles the band they were in the 80's, which apparently many people think they're still like.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:06 / 20.04.03
Well, as it happens, I stayed into the pub, pouring my money into Mr Guinness' pockets rather than Douglas P's. I think it might've been the right choice, ethically. But my head may argue otherwise tomorrow.

Is there more to 'em than ill-considered right wing wanktronics, though?
 
 
--
19:25 / 20.04.03
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Douglas P gay? Wouldn't it be a little odd for him to be into Nazis?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:36 / 20.04.03
As I said, he's none too bright, as far as I can tell. I think that's probably how the whole Nazi-loving thing happened- I get the impression it started off as a kind of fetishistic thing. Early-ish songs do tend to have a theme of the beautiful heroism of the soldier- "his muscular build, his brown hair cropped close, brave me and tame me, brave me and tame me".

There is quite a lot of this about- the Torture Garden always has a few male couples in SS gear (or always did- I haven't been for about eight years. Though on a side note- one time I went, there were two hippies on the merchandise stall, which, of all things, was selling swastika armbands. They'd put up a big sign next to it saying "For all you ignorant fucks". Don't think they sold many. )

I really don't know what Mr P's personal actual belief on race and stuff is... but he's got himself hooked up with some seriously dodgy people, and I don't think it's just a game of regalia anymore.

There's also the association with Boyd Rice/NON, who I have rather more time for, for a couple of reasons-
one, he actually seems to have thought about what he's doing, and I'm more inclined to accept his apologists' insistence that it's all some big Situationist/Chaoist prank (as witness his latest album which, devoid of his usual Nietzschean misanthropy, gives us a Boyd Rice all Gnostified) as I could actually believe that of him more readily than Douglas P.

two, a lot of the time with the aforementioned Nietzschean etc., he really does seem to be deliberately going into the realms of "too far" and possibly "taking the piss". His album (with Douglas P, but still worth getting if you can get the original release second-hand somewhere) "Music, Martinis and Misanthropy" is not the sound of a stupid man bashing out half-thought-out Fascism 101. But it does sound like he could well be taking the piss.

three, he can sing like Lee Hazelwood. And you can forgive a man a lot for that. And, when not doing that, he makes the most wonderful noise. Far superior to Whitehouse, imho, Sypha, though my problem with them has always been a much simpler one- the vocals (on the old stuff, anyway- don't know much of the new stuff) just sound... well, a bit silly.

Don't get me wrong- I am still very uncomfortable with a lot of NON's output. I'm just more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt than I am with DIJ. (I still try to get his stuff second-hand or free, though.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:52 / 21.04.03
Ah! By happy coincidence, one of the smackheads who begs on Church Street has recently taken it upon himself to start giving me tapes of old anarcho-punk stuff (for which I am very grateful), and has just given me a tape of Crisis, cos I'd never heard them before. I'm listening to it now, and it's very good. Hearing Tony Wakeford singing "class, race and nation are a capitalist creation" is quite funny when you look at DIJ...
 
 
--
17:23 / 21.04.03
I've been getting into NON's stuff more recently, first I got "Easy Listening for Iron Youth" which seems to be a retrospective of his early stuff, and "Recieve The Flame", which I quite liked. Recently I ordered for "God & Beast" and "Children of the Black Sun" (the latter because I'm interested in gnosticism and I hear the album is about that) and a friend is sending me "Blood And Flame" and "Physical Evidence". I find his style very interesting. Personally, I doubt he's a Nazi (a Satanist, maybe, you never know). Actually, he's associated with a lot of musicians I like, such as Coil and P-Orridge, so he can't be THAT bad (I hope!) I actually don't know that much about Boyd Rice, but I read an interview he did once where he said something that I thought sounded kind of misogynistic, but maybe he was just joking or something.

Whitehouse is a bit trickier. A lot of their albums from their Come Org period (1980-1985) I'm not that crazy about because they seem very poorly recorded and put together, kind of slap-dash to be honest. Still, I think some of those old records do hold up in terms of noise music and they did pretty much create the power electronics genre. I liked how they deliberetly set out to make the most repulsive records ever concieved, and in many ways they stuck to that vision, some of their early stuff is virtually unlistenable from that period. What I don't like about them from that time was their arrogance, especially as to how William Bennett was always dissing Throbbing Gristle and Industrial Records, what he didn't get was that TG didn't want to be the most hardcore noise band ever, they were more about subverting music (and people's idea of how music should sound) in general. Ironically Come Org stole a lot of ideas from TG. The swastika-like logo of the label wasn't very different an idea then TG using a picture of an Auschwitz oven as a logo, for example. And TG did a song about Ian Brady and Myra Hindley 7 years before Whitehouse did. Basically Whitehouse just expolited the imagery TG had explored (visually and sonically) already and just took it to the next label. That's why Whitehouse's serial killer/facist phase seems so half-hearted to me (then again, the phase only lasted about 3 or 4 albums between 81-83). The only really misogynistic album Whitehouse did at that time was "Right To Kill" but I blame a lot of that on the fact that Kevin Thompkins of Sutcliffe Jugend was a member of the band at the time and writing most of their songs (though I'd be lying if I'd say that I didn't like Sutcliffe Jugend's "When Pornography Is No Longer Enough": But I got that album for free anyway so I can sleep easy at night). You have to remember William Bennett was only like what. 18 or so, when he started Whitehouse so I think a lot of the imagery used by the band in those days was just immature shock tactics.

To me Whitehouse's most important work started around 1998 (though they did have a good album around 91 and 95) when they did "Mummy & daddy", an album about domestic abuse. This was the first album where they really began to use digital technology and it was a vast improvement, for the first time they had songs with lyrics going on for pages, and the new lyrics were much better then the old stuff.
Some of the lyrics were still repellent, but one track, "Daddo" (about child abuse) has some lines like "No, these words that slide out of their lazy holes are the same as any other road noise/noise as sad representation/myth/a safe remove. aggrandizing, desperate, resigned and ultimate seperation/only words". I'm not quite sure what Bennett's talking about but I think he may be addressing Whitehouse's older lyrical stance. With their 2001 album "Cruise" the band moved into a type of arty intellectual territory, with lyrics critiquing religion, self-help, and things of that nature.

But for me the definibg Whitehouse moment has been their newest album released recently, "Bird Seed". A lot of the hardcore Whitehouse fans seem to hate this album but I think it's one of their best, if not their best period. This album, for the first time in Whitehouse history, actually has rhythm on some songs, though it's very subdued. One song, "Cut hands has the solution", is just lyrics being shouted over a pounding tom drum. The lyrics seem to be about Sierra Leone and self-help books and victim culture and that Barrymore actor guy who had someone drown in his pool or something (?) But there's one song, "Philosophy", that begins with an a misogynistic rant but, halfway through, changes tone and suddenly gets personal, with Bennett whispering about the death of a friend of his who was stabbed to death. His voice on this song seems resigned and broken, and it's hard to believe it's the same man who was singing "It's your right to kill" 20 years before. Suddenly, the violence that Whitehouse mythologized on their old albums seems very silly and pathetic when viewed in the light of reality, and maybe Bennett realizes this because now the band only plays songs from "Bird Seed" and "Cruise" live now, with only one or two old songs.

My only gripe with Whitehouse as of late is each of their last 3 albums has at least one track that consists of ten minutes of samples recorded off TV, mostly samples of people talking about their rape/abuse as children on day time talk shows, these tracks are really dull and not really shocking at all, Peter Sotos makes them, but Whitehouse kicked him out of the band (finally!) before Birdseed so hopefully I'll see no more of those. I was actually always a little squeemish about Whitehouse's association with Sotos and I'm glad he's gone now, I can't say I like that man very much.

What interests me about Whitehouse is that they are one of the only industrial noise bands from that period that is still around today, and the fact that their new stuff totally blows their old stuff away (with most bands it's usually the opposite). It interests me that they've gone from being one of the most hated bands in England to critically acclaimed artists (namechecked now by people like Sonic Youth, Aphex Twin, Autechre, etc.) In fact for their 100th live show they were supported by Aphex Twin, Merzbow, and Bill Russell, so the band has really come into their own I think. I read that "Bird Seed" was recently nominated for a prestigious electronic music award, I hope it wins, it's quite a good album.
 
 
polaroid
08:08 / 02.04.04
Sometimes it's har for me to believe that after more than 20 years of existence of Death In June, people still raise the question "are they neo-nazi?". Some years ago I was the editor of a magazine that covered Industrial and Dark Folk music (if these tags mean something) and I interviewed and got to know many of the individuals you're talking about here.
First... The name "Death In June" doesn't comes from the Mishima novel, but it's a reference to the night of the long knives, in which the SS killed the SA leader.
Second... "brave me and tame; his muscular build,..." comes from a Genet book. It's indeed a reference to homossexuality.
Third (and the thing that annoys most of people) - swastikas are ancient solar symbols that means life or destruction (depending on its rotation) - it existed thousands of years before WW II. Douglas, Tony Wakeford and Boyd Rice are very interested in ancient european culture. The swastikas are always there, as are the runes (the symbol of the SS are runes). They use swastikas not as a neo-nazi thing but as a symbol of something very different.
Read Mishima, Genet, books about runes and you will understand Death I June and Boyd Rice work much better.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:29 / 02.04.04
Well, yeah.
But sampling Hitler doesn't really help them look any fluffier...
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:09 / 02.04.04
I dont know if this is just a rumour, but apparently Boyd Rice's new kick is royalism. An interview I read a while ago (not with Boyd) was infering that he believes he's the rightful king of France. Could someone confirm this?
 
 
The Knights Templar Boogie Machine
13:23 / 02.04.04
Boyd is currently the editor of dagoberts revenge ( http://www.dagobertsrevenge.com/index.html),an online webzine dedicated to the grail mysteries and renes les chateau, last i heard he was researching his bloodline and its possible connection with royalty and esoterica, so maybe he has come to this conclusion. You can hear Boyd and co writer Tracy Twyman on archive Art Bell shows discussing their work which i have recently obtained but have'nt listened to yet.
Jeez, synchronicity isn't an anomaly, its the goddamn rule........
 
  
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