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Pain for power

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

03:27 / 19.04.03

so, many ritual systems involve causing yourself pain on the way to enlightenment. Aztech tounge piercings, navajo suspension and the initiation the narrator in fight club goes through are a few examples.

now, in this world of psychological propblems leading to cutting or burning or even killing yourself, are these self destructive activities a safe path to enlightenment, or a path toward ultimate self mutilation?

I have a tatoo and plan on more, i got the tat while on a trip to hawaii where i feel i became "enlightened" to certain things in my life, and i marked the cange with a tatoo. Now this was something a bit destructive from a point of view, i dont really feel that way though.

Now when i left a cigarette burning on the back of my hand for 3 or 4 minutes, it was what i would consider a sefl destructive act, but along with that came a feeling of clarity, things seemed to make sense for the next few hours, even with the pain.

now i havent repeated either experience, because pain is not fun, and hawaii is expensive, but i was curious if others had similar, pain initiation experiences

08:46 / 19.04.03

Pain can be a route to sacred experience. I personally don't use that road, but I've been privileged to witness (and help) a friend on a shamanic path using pain (heavy flogging). She goes to amazing places that way, brings back the occasional interesting tidbit of information. Sometimes it's just for herself, sometimes it has to do with people she is close to; I haven't asked her to look at anything for me simply because it never occurred to me until now (I value her usual/mundane insights and have a different connection to the Sacred).

are these self destructive activities a safe path to enlightenment, or a path toward ultimate self mutilation?

Urrrghhh. Given that there's no such thing as a perfectly safe activity, and that enlightenment may not be safe (look where it got Jesus!), and that if something leads to enlightenment then it's likely a trade-off rather than "destructive," and I'm not sure what "ultimate self-mutilation" might be; did you want to rephrase that question??

The Return Of Rothkoid

13:45 / 19.04.03

I can't say that I felt very enlightened when I was cutting myself, last year. It did act as a way to shut the voices in my head down, to stop everything being in ultrafocus; but the resultant psychological problems (ie: you're shit!) seemed to put the kybosh on more worthwhile results, frankly.

Tryphena Absent

16:54 / 19.04.03

People often mistake the power of blood magic as important because of its binding force but it's the extreme focus that you reach through the act of pain, cutting and bleeding that is powerful. I'd never recommend it but if I was desperate I'd certainly use it myself- I just can't imagine ever getting there. When I engage in ritual magic I've been known to bite half the skin off my bottom lip without realising what I was doing. I think people are naturally inclined towards hurting themselves to increase concentration but I'm not sure about enlightenment.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

17:08 / 19.04.03

what rothkoid said was what i was meaning iszabelle, the after effects of causing yourself pain, even if its a ritual. the danger as i see it would be getting to the point where you start inflicting pain on yourself just to do it, and not for ritual. I think society has set people up to think that when you hurt yourself its because you dont like yourself, so when you cause pain, for whatever reason, you bring along the feelings of self loathing...

16:54 / 21.04.03

I am currently planning such a rite now. I'm finally getting around to making a real set of runestones, and to do that bit right, they have to be blooded. Granted, a lot of new agey guides may reccomend that actual blood isn't necessary, just something red, I tend towards the traditional when it comes to the runes. So, that means I get to mix up a tasty brew of blood, semen, and the Colonel's own blend of 11 herbs and spices. Joy!

I've been queasy about the thought of drawing blood pretty much right from the start of it. I'm not one for pain. Nope, don't like it at all. But I realize that in overcoming that fear and taking the hurt, the working gains so much more in power from it. I don't think it would be so powerful an experience if I was accustomed to such things, but such as things are, the test of doing it at all makes for a potent ritual component.

So from this, I think pain can be a mighty tool for magick, though best so if it is not one often employed.

18:50 / 21.04.03

Pain and bloodwork do not have to be inseparable.

I've used both. Sometimes it's the pain that is the trigger, sometimes I just need the crimson... occasionally they work in tandem.

If you don't want the pain but could do with a small amount of lifejuice for your working, try this little technique. Hold your arm down by your side and clench/unclench your fist rapidly for half a minute or so, your veins should begin to pop up. Now, bind your thumb below the knuckle, a handkerchief works well but any rope or cord will do. Make it tight so that it is swollen and dark with trapped blood.

Even the slightest prick with a needle will allow the blood an exit. A litlle bubble/dome of the stuff, enough to sign your name

. If you need more than this, just pepper the back of your thumb [less nerves] with little pricks - you should be able to get half a teaspoon with patience [or quicker with reckless abandon].
Release the binding, do the clenching, rebind and squeeze your thumb against it. The pinpricks will reopen and continue to bleed. Bleeding stops when the pressure is released.

This is a relatively painless way to collect a small amount of blood. If you need any more... what? are you decorating your lair?... then cutting is gonna be necessary.

19:25 / 21.04.03

I can't really comment on using pain for rituals and such, because I'm a newbie in this field, but I know one good use for it. I've been trying to strengthen my will using an exercise I read in 'The Tree of Life'. You choose a habit you have, and slice your arm with a razor every time you do it. In my case, I started with chewing my nails, a nasty habit I've had since I was very young: as long as I can remember, in fact. And it worked.

It may not neccessarily be magic, but it may help more weak-willed people (like myself) do things they couldn't ordinarily do, which is a bit like magic. However, if someone happens to enjoy pain, this probably won't work. I can see some danger with actually coming to enjoy inflicting pain on oneself.... I have noticed my pain tolerance rise a bit, at least of the slicing type of pain. The less I have to slice myself, the less it hurts, hmm.

However, to make more proper use of this exercise, I need to stop using a habit that isn't disgusting and harmful. After all, not gnawing on my hands only shows common sense. I'm going to go with my habit of saying "I", as per Regardie's recommendation. So, any time I say or write the word "I" I have to take a razor to may arm. From this point on, that is.

An update about this exercise is forthcoming; in a few days there should be some progress. My vocabulary should improve, at least.

BTW, feelings of self-loathing have not resulted from cutting myself in this way, quite the opposite. There's a bit of elation that comes from quitting a habit this way, kind of a "job well done" feeling.

19:47 / 21.04.03

mixmage: This is all true, but the cutting and associated fear and pain is an important part of what I'm doing, hence the post on it. No, I don't particularly want to do it, but that aversion is exactly what gives the working power. Its like a test.

21:15 / 21.04.03

cusm: that's the "in tandem" I mentioned at the start: Just how sharp is this blade? How hard will I have to press? How deep is it gonna be?...

... this blood was earned. perhaps.

I heard a tamer version of Jrod's technique involving a rubber band around the wrist. When in the grip of negative states/bad habits, give it a stretch and Snap!... that momentary pain distraction editpoint. Pain without blood.

Try it with one of those hair-ties... you know, the ones with the metal bit

23:05 / 21.04.03

No, I don't particularly want to do it, but that aversion is exactly what gives the working power. Its like a test.

This is similar to the cutting that's induced by fear and emotional stress but which one has no direct control over; the cutting that just happens. I think it's as valuable a ritual method as cutting which is deliberately employed. It's a state of mind which can be acknowledged (without acceptance) and tapped into given the opportunity, and then a situation which could be regarded as untenable becomes a useful working tool and one which, in the proper circumstances, becomes acceptable and productive.

09:20 / 22.04.03

cusm:

If your making a set of runestones I can virtually guarantee that they will get blooded in the creation process - I've made two sets from wood and both sets have had blood on them (mostly 'cos I dont pay as much attention as I should when I'm sanding them).

13:18 / 22.04.03

As someone who has used pain and blood extensively in ritual activity I will say this.

Magickal workings are acts of will. If you don't like to cut yourself and don't like pain, then the act of overcoming this is a boon in itself, it will be part of an expression of will.

For people who cut themselves with some regularity, NOT cutting yourself for a month or two, especially during times when you MOST want to cut yourself is also an act of will.

Habit is almost the opposite of will. To do things unconciously, blindly, in a sleep-daze is to me, what magickal activity is resisting. To wake yourself up and CHOOSE every moment and movement brings clarity and focus to life.

17:08 / 22.04.03

Interesting correlary to cutting/bleeding.

18:05 / 22.04.03

I would concur with caleigh, but would add a small point.

I have found that swallowing something (water or your own spit preferably) actually clarifies and awakens! Strange but true. And no pain (Woohoo!)

When next you are getting fretful (such as a 'nail biting situation' (literally)) stop, take a breath, let it out normally and swallow a mouthful of water.

Note: Biting nails is an attack on your claws, its self-enforced harmlessness that comes from a feeling of submission (usually). A good way out is learn a martial art

21:08 / 26.04.03

Leap said
Note: Biting nails is an attack on your claws, its self-enforced harmlessness that comes from a feeling of submission (usually). A good way out is learn a martial art

Heh, interesting. That was certainly the case in my younger days. Fortunately, the razor method totally destroyed my nail-biting habit within a week. My arm took fewer than twenty cuts before the habit went away, which is really a small price to pay for a decent set of claws.

The next step was to proscribe my use of the personal pronoun in the same way. This resulted in about 140 cuts to my arms on the first day. The fifth day resulted in under thirty cuts, so there has definitely been progress. Still, my arms have more bad cross-hatching than a Liefeld pinup. Ah well, spare the lamed and spoil the aleph, as nobody ever says.

The razor exercise is definitely effective in strengthening will, but the real issue is whether it's the best method (or even particularly good). Though it has worked for me (so far), hell, there's gotta be a better way. The primary advantage seems to be how quickly one gets results, which isn't much on an advantage at all. The whole exercise probably works best as a last resort for breaking bad habits, but even then a hair-tie is likely just as effective.

23:35 / 26.04.03

CUSM: use a sharp scapel blade for the incision, try not to scratch at the skin it just hurts more. A small cross will induces more bleeding for less pentration through the dermal layers., than slices.
Think of it this way, the goddess induces the flow by the lunar cycle, your are consciously letting.

15:42 / 27.04.03

That site about the ritual piercings is just amazing!

I've had kind of a love-hate fascination with the idea of temporary piercings, and that sort of ritual seems to be the ideal way to tap into the power that piercings have for me. Thanks for putting the link up!

(Not that I'm going to be going out and doing this anytime soon...)