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Death is a Woman

18:31 / 17.04.03

(preamble: Please note that this thread is not intended to be about gender differences among men and women. This is a discussion about the archetypes of Male & Female represented by trumps 13 & 15 of the Thoth Tarot - The Devil and Death - and how these archetypes relate to the transformative process.)

So I was doing a working last night - an expansion of the LRP, which states that the aspirant is standing at the intersection of Samekh and Pe (Art & The Tower). Since this particular working was on the Middle Pillar I was focusing on the path of Art, Atu 14.

Now, Art represents the union of opposites in the Microcosm on the path from Yesod to Tiphareth, moving up the Middle Pillar of the Tree. It can be regarded as the balance between The Devil (Atu 13 - Nun) and Death (Atu 15 - Ayin), the two other paths leading up the Tree to Tiphareth from Hod and Netzach, respectively.

The Devil obviously represents Man (666), though in a hermaphroditic sense as it ascends from Hod. But Death is not so clear-cut. The archetype of the Reaper, like the Holy Ghost, has always been regarded as asexual (which in some ways is the opposite of the hermaphrodite). But the path of Death ascends from Netzach, the Beautiful Woman.

Another aspect of Art is the formula of Ayin-Nun (ON). This formula again speaks of a union of man & woman - Devil and Death. If we extend this analysis to that of creation, woman represents the application of Form to the masculine Force, the Womb of Life - Nature. Like the Kali Ma, Nature is creative and destructive and can only persist in its own recycling through death.

So my question to the forum is: How does the 15th Atu, Death, reflect the archetypes of Woman, of Nature as a feminine principle, and of death as a transformative process? And how do these relate to the symbols of the Scorpion and the Eagle?

19:47 / 17.04.03

My friend Joel is mad that LRP is now thought by most to be Lead Replacement Petrol.

19:57 / 17.04.03

I think it relates to the idea that women bring people into life by giving birth to them, so it makes sense that they'd be the gatekeepers of the other end of things.

Also, y'know, there's the masculine ego thing. Women represent the annihilation of the cocksure male ego in the oceanic experience of love, ergo they represent death?

I could be wrong, though.

20:59 / 17.04.03

velvet wrote:
Women represent the annihilation of the cocksure male ego in the oceanic experience of love, ergo they represent death?

Nice one, v! To extend this cocksuredness further (heh heh), woman represents the annihilation of the masculine ego in the moment of orgasm (assuming you swing that way...). Indeed, this is fundamental to Hermetic and post-hermetic sex magick. The formula of ON represents this on certain levels.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

21:23 / 17.04.03

judeo christian mythology in the book of genesis states, of course, that women were the corrupters of humanity, causing adam to falter and humans to be kicked from the garden.
presumambly, of the 2 trees of the garden, knowledge and life, knowledge was the one to piss off the almighty.
"You eat of the tree of knowledge, and you will surely die. You eat of the tree of life, and you remain a child in the garden forever, undying." --orson scott card, Enders Shadow

so, in the J/C sense women caused the mortality of man by choosing which tree to eat from.

16:46 / 18.04.03

The Devil could also in a indirect sense represent the Khabs, Death the Khu. Key 15 has always been hermaphroditic because it represents ALL humanity, men and women, the aspirants are male inasmuch as going has alays been atributed a masculine character. Receptivity has always been attributed to the female, and death recieves us all.

16:50 / 18.04.03

Elijah wrote:
judeo christian mythology in the book of genesis states, of course, that women were the corrupters of humanity...

I'd like to caution that this language is somewhat loaded. The Book of Genesis does not state that women were the corrupters of humanity, although it is often interpreted as such. The story of Eve eating from the Tree of Knowledge is metaphor and veils a much deeper initiatory path. Compare Genesis to the Tetragrammaton and the manifestation of the Sephira. The "corruption" of humanity was the awareness of Duality - Knowledge. This is the Fall below the Supernal Triad (Kether, Chokmah, Binah) through Daath (Knowledge). In Eden, Adam is the Tree as well as Chokmah. Eve is Binah, the Sea. In this metaphor, Woman represents the Death of formlessness and the Birth of Creation below the Abyss.

Moving up the Tree in the initiatory path, Binah represents the Death of Dualism, the first Gate of the Supernal triad. It is a higher reflection of Netzach (compare the path of Death to the path of The Magus).

16:51 / 18.04.03

Hermes wrote:
Receptivity has always been attributed to the female, and death recieves us all.

Very nicely put!

Professor Silly

20:32 / 18.04.03

The path that corresponds to Death connects Netzach to Tiphareth--the amazon, masculine female warrior to the beautiful son. One could therefore enterpret the path as a combination of these two ideas.

So what do we get when we combine the amazon (I always picture Wonder Woman for some reason, only more of a bad-ass) with the son/prince? The result seems very much a mix of the two genders, with the emphasis on the masculine. Factor in the Scorpio influence (which, as water, seems feminine) and I think we get a result that balances out and has no gender exactly.

Who's your Tzaddi?

20:39 / 18.04.03

So what do we get when we combine the amazon (I always picture Wonder Woman for some reason, only more of a bad-ass) with the son/prince?

Mercury.

21:00 / 18.04.03

"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

the secret sayings of the gnostic jesus (the gospel of thomas)

Who's your Tzaddi?

21:40 / 18.04.03

≈≈≈Synchronicity alert!≈≈≈

⊕Exact text quoted was the same one triggered in my head upon reading this thread.Holy Gnosis!

⊕I stand by my original stance = The Devil as a woman or portrayed as such; = High Priestess to Devil =17. Lucifer/Venus. Look at the "Waite" tarot and the illustrations of the Lovers and The Devil card.

⊕AThH HMN HOTz is Hebrew for the biblical text "Hath Thou Eaten of the Tree?" - Genesis 3:11
⊆The Number 311 is a gemetrical code as well.-Tz⊇

⊕Death=History. HIS STORY

Everything we do is ALL♠TO♣GET♦HER♥

18:15 / 22.04.03

So if Netzach presents a feminine visage embodied by the beautiful woman, how does Hod present it's opposite in the form of the Hermaphrodite?

18:25 / 22.04.03

Tzar wrote:
⊕I stand by my original stance = The Devil as a woman or portrayed as such; = High Priestess to Devil =17. Lucifer/Venus. Look at the "Waite" tarot and the illustrations of the Lovers and The Devil card.

Would you expand on this a bit? How is The Devil portrayed as a woman? It's always seemed quite masculine to me... And would you say more about the Devil-Priestess relationship?

Odd that the Devil is the path leading up from Hod, the Hermaphrodite. I can't seem to resolve the Hermaphrodite with 1) the masculinity of the Devil, and 2) as an opposite of Netzach, the Beautiful Woman.

The Hermaphrodite is Duality in Unity, the feminine Form of Binah as the progenitor of both sexes portrayed in Hod...So I guess Netzach is the masculine Force of Chokmah manifest in the Feminine Countenace of the Beautiful Woman.

18:45 / 22.04.03

I would guess that the paths on the tree are not as they should be. The High Priestess/Pope Joan follows the path of 13.The Devil path is 26. My teacher/teachings have always shown the 26th running from Tiphareth to Yesod (6-9) thus adding to Trump Fifteen.

21:11 / 22.04.03

'All-to-get-her'. I salute you, sah!

How do you get those playing card symbols to show up in your posts?

Who's your Tzaddi?

21:14 / 22.04.03

"I am the creator of all I survey! I am God and there is none other before me!"

"You are mistaken Samael..."

The beauty of it really is, they are both the same!

DEVIL=Capricorn=SATURN/SATAN (who Sets himself higher than God = Jupiter)

The Saturn connection to DEATH= Sickle, Time, The Cloak, The Hidden Face, Water,The Skeleton itself.

Death must also be considered as THE EAGLE, and previous, THE PHOENIX. [Again, why the switch up?]

Back to the point:

The Lovers

The Devil

I wish there was a way for me to overlay the two, as to see the Holographic Image within.

≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞

This is to give example. I will return for the debate

17:17 / 25.04.03

Devil = Fire
Death = Water

Unite the two to create steam - Air = Art, the Middle Path to Tiphareth

Fire burns up the Water
Water extinguishes the Fire

Babal-ON

"The formula of continued life is death, or putrefaction."

V.I.T.R.I.O.L.

Who's your Tzaddi?

18:47 / 25.04.03

"The formula of continued life is death, or pure fiction."

Horus Hiesenburg

01:06 / 27.04.03

Hermes Nuclear: The magician also stands within the circle. The ultimate atainment is dissolution of the Ego so that self, unites with other and dissolves, or "Death". A scorpion, when surrounded by a circle of flame (Spirit), will commit suicide, stinging itself, the magician destroyes himself to realize SELF.