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Dream initiated Bibliomancy, any theories?

  
 
Olulabelle
00:23 / 17.04.03
I just had an odd little dream in which I picked up two books next to my my bed, turned to particular pages and particular lines and read the passages. When I woke up I recalled the page and line numbers, so I looked at the passages. (BTW, I am not up to either page number in either of the books in my waking reading, so I hadn't read the passages before.)

This is what I read:

Real Magic, by Isaac Bonewits. The Thelemic philosophy is one that only a saint can handle without causing great damage to those around him or her, and if one is already enlightened they probably have no need for it. Despite the best efforts of Thelemic organisations (such as the O.T.O if which I am an initiate), the overwhelming majority of Crowley’s followers still insist on interpreting it as “Do whatever the hell I want shall be the whole of the law. Lust is the Law, lust under any circumstances.

Astral Dynamics, Robert Bruce. Many entities seem to choose a form taken from the mind of a projector (which indicates some degree of telepathic activity) and use it to generate the maximum possible level of fear.

The second one kind of makes sense to me, it's the first one that I am most interested in. If the actual Law of Thelema is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, love under will" can someone please explain to me what their interpretation of it is, or if it has an exact meaning, what that is? I don't see how the Bonewits passage applies to me *at all* as I know very little about Crowley or The Thelemic philosophy.
 
 
Quantum
07:26 / 17.04.03
IMHO it's Crowley's adaption of the traditional Wiccan philosophy 'An thou harmst none, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'. He felt harm was allowable and magicians should impose their will on others as and when they felt like (I'm with Bonewits on this one).
Alternatively (and perhaps more charitably to the great beast) it can be interpreted as a doctrine of total freedom, with the emphasis on love, so that freedom is used beneficially. Most Thelemites seem only to read up to 'Do what thou wilt' though.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:08 / 17.04.03
So being a Thelemite means...what? At it's most basic level.
 
 
Quantum
08:26 / 17.04.03
A follower of Crowley basically, who founded the Temple of Thelema (punned on the site temple ov thee lemur.com )
There's a billion webpages devoted to Crowleyanity and Thelemism, google it and check it out- he was a fascinating and amazing man (but evil)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
21:42 / 17.04.03
thelemite philosophy boild down to "its ok to do whatever you like, even if it hurts others, as long as you are a 'magician'" IIRC from chats with friends

growing up my mother had a copy of the book of lies in the house, she kept it wrapped in silk and was afraid to destroy it, i dont know what ever happened to it, but the way it was stored in the house colored my opinions of crowley at an early age...
 
 
LVX23
22:59 / 17.04.03
thelemite philosophy boild down to "its ok to do whatever you like, even if it hurts others, as long as you are a 'magician'" IIRC from chats with friends

This is a very profane interpretation and shows a huge misunderstanding of the canon. But of course, to take any metaphysical statement at it's face value without taking the time to research it's depth and intent always leads to problems.

I've spent over a decade working with the ideas gathered and created by Crowley, both intellectually and magickally. I've never joined the OTO due to the difficulty in finding a really true group, though I've had the honor to spend time with some serious and high-ranking members who not only "get it", but were students of Crowley's students. So if you'll allow me to don the Thelemic hat for a moment...

Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law:

This statement is not for the layperson, nor even for the initiate, as it urges the individual to discover exactly what it is that they are most suited to performing in this incarnation. It is predicated on many years committed to finding internal balance, understanding your personal history and how you became the person you are, realizing your ultimate potential, and working in accord with Universal Will. When an individual's Will is in alignment with Universal Will, every action they take is right and true in as far as those actions are merely extensions of the Will of God, and their specific role in Creation is fulfilled.

Love Is The Law, Love Under Will:

The principle of Love is the fundamental current of Creation. It is God at play in Nature. It is the Will of the Absolute to manifest Existence. All physical laws are merely extensions of this principle. The apprehension of this by the adept impels Love of Creation and God. This is not the love of Eros, but the love of Agape. Life is thus the working of Love under the Will of the Absolute and the Will of the individual.

These are the ideals of Thelema. Obviously very difficult to attain, and Crowley himslef fell short in many regards. But of course the journey is far more important than the destination. And if you meet any "thelemites" or "crowleyites" who claim the Law of Thelema justifies any action they wish, don't listen to anything else they have to say. These people are usually just too scared to join the Church of Satan where they belong. That being said, I think the assertion by Bonewits that the far majority of Crowley's followers misinterpret the maxim is off the mark. I think the majority of us understand what it implies, or rather how it doesn't apply to our lives until we've found the Will to handle such freedom with compassion and integrity.

Olulabelle, for the sake of your dream interpretation, it may be helpful to view his assertion as a warning of what not to do if you engage Thelema, as well as a call to interrogate anyone who attempts to influence you with their ideas of Crowley.

BTW Quantum, why is it you keep saying Crowley is evil? I thought Good and Evil were out-dated concepts long since abandoned by chaotes and magicians...
 
 
Saint Keggers
00:36 / 18.04.03
I always interpreted Do what thou wilt not as do what you want but rather do what is wanted OF you. Find out who you are and what you're supposed to be doing. Einstein was wilt to be a physicist and DaVinci an artist. Find your true destiny and let nothing stand in your way.
 
 
illmatic
07:07 / 18.04.03
Just quickly - I back up LVX's and Kegboy's statements. I'd add that in Thelema, one relationship with it's sacred text The Book of the Law is something that your meant to keep private and personal. I'd extend this to the whole of Thelemic ethos, and say it's up to each Thelemite to develop their own idea of Thelema.

For what it's worth, my take on it, in a practical sense, is the momentum that's left when your not reacting from a conditioned point of view ie. if you stop reacting with all your hang ups and fuck up, what's left? Where are you?

Not that I'm there, but something to aspire to, maybe. More later perhaps.
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
19:44 / 18.04.03
≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞

Do What Thou Will
What Thou Will Do
Thou Will Do What?
Will Do What Thou

Will

≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞

My contribution is: On CNN last week, I heard of this 217 K Bomb found (or planted) at Moab. My mind kept telling me there was something to the name Moab. In a dream later, "Page 207!" was in my head. A reference to ISIS UNVEILED by H.P. BLAVATSKY. The book, onn that page, told of how Moses was personally buried bt THE LORD HIMSELF at Moab and no man knows the location to this day.

Strange.

≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞≡∞
 
 
Olulabelle
23:58 / 18.04.03
Dream initiated bibliomancy always gives me strange results. Things I have to really think through.

Thanks everyone for your input, and LVX23, thanks for your explanation. You write in such a way that it's easier for the less knowledgeable amongst us (me) to understand the theory.

It now appears that the page number of the Isaac Bonewits passage may also have some significance, page 222. I've looked this up on the internet, and found some references to it, but I'd be interested to know what you all think. Of course, given that Bonewits wrote the book, this passage being on that page could be entirely orchestrated. I am not sure how much to read into it, if anything at all.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:13 / 19.04.03
hmm, i have often wondered things like that, if authors plan certain items on specific pages or paragraphs for reasons other than "proper writing techniques"

dream initiations are something i am not very familliar with, as my dreams usually involve being in the role of the white guy in Fastlane...
 
 
the king of byblos
08:00 / 21.04.03
hello,
thanks to LVX23 ;-)
this is my hapenneth for what it is worth.
"do what thou wilt,
shall be the whole of the law.
love it the law,
love under will.
every man and woman is a star"

True action, the Will etc. is 'simply' the correct action at any given time. Impossibly easy :-(
and it is the only/primary directive for any human being, it is The Law as opposed to the 10 commandments, the 5 pillars of wisdom etc.

the Will is = to Love, every action you take should do no harm to anyone and should be done with love and for love and out of love. Which is how "[Will]..shall be the WHOLE of the law" but "love IS the law" aswell. (A=B AND C=B :. A=C)

the reason is and the reason you do this is that everyone is equally deserving of respect and love, we are all made of the same ;-)

but as more words usually muddy the water this could be reduced to:
"treat others as you would like to be treated"
"you and everyone else deserved the best at all times"

PEACE
 
 
the king of byblos
08:08 / 21.04.03
P.S. to olulabele. i thnk these two passages together seem to be saying:
don't get shit scared if your Will suddenly rears it's head
gulp
 
  
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