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Darkness

 
 
Zhi
08:55 / 13.04.03

Much of magic and magical technique uses images of darkness.
I was wondering how people may think of darkness, what does it mean to you? do you use darkness,?dark imagry in your magic/intiatory process etc?

Do you see darkness as a metaphor or as a substance?

Is darkness opposed to light? Is it a part of light? or is 'something else' altogether?

Titus Crow
 
 
penitentvandal
13:28 / 13.04.03
Yeah, I use darkness. I also use neon Erisian chaospheres and perform my magick using a Jelly Belly jellybean cane instead of a staff, on occassion.
Sometimes I do the whole black candles death trip live-and-let-die thing, sometimes I jump around like a hippy and sing Polyphonic Spree songs.
Darkness and light are two halves of the holographic equation that makes up the universe. Each needs the other.
In the process of initiation you do come across dark material, it's true, but this is all part of the process. You can consider yourself truly initiated when you do not let fear of the darkness - either without or within - control you, either by succumbing to the darkness or closing yourself off from it.

Trust me. I am wise and know many things. Om.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:24 / 13.04.03
Be kind to the semi-lurker!

To tell you the truth I don't really get what you mean by darkness. What are images of darkness? I'm grasping for whether you're talking about actual darkness and thus an absence or something else and I think if you are then I'm at a complete loss for what dark imagery means.

In my own magical terms I suppose there's an underlying magical (and literal) darkness in that I tend to practice the little ritual magic I perform at night and during the waning moon but I don't think that's what you're getting at so could we have some clarity please?!

As for succumbing to the darkness or closing yourself off from it.
What- are we living in a movie where you acquire a strange form of psychosis if you succumb to the dark? Sorry but it seems a bit like bullshit to me. Why the hell does magick have to be clouded by people talking like Darth Vader? We should be afraid of the dark all the time because it keeps us on our toes and reminds us not to act like complete tossers with something we'll never fully understand. We should always be edgy when we walk down dark alleyways in the middle of the night and be scared of lorries on the motorway. These things are just sensible precautions to take in the world and just because you've walked that way a hundred times before doesn't mean some utter bastard with a knife won't be ready to mug you this time.
 
 
illmatic
17:06 / 13.04.03
You might find this thread on qlipothic tarot of interest, Mr Crow. And this one, which is about Shadow archetypes

I't quite a loose concept isn't it? My first thoughts are of it as a part of a dual pair, yin and yang. It which case it's just part of a shifting of plane of opposites - night and day, the play of change.

Secondly though - something with a bit more "meat" on it, I kind of associate this term with the works of Kenneth Grant - Kennygnosis, I heard someone refer to this as recently. I've never felt confident enough/in the right place to work with this intentionally. As discussed in the threads linked above to here it's not necessairly "evil" just very far away from our human concepts, kind of similar to ideas of Cthulhu. Our atvastic survival urges etc. Though I say I've never worked with "darkness", as such I've have had a lot of "corruption" imagery turn up in my dreams etc. Rotting and decaying stuff. I'm not sure where this come from, perhaps stuff picked up about dirt etc. picked up in childhood. In one instance, this stuff seemed to be "covering" a spirit - kind of like it had to push it's way through loads of muck and filth to come into contact with me. Very odd. So maybe this stuff is there anyway, and crops up as part of the broader picture, when we're working anyway.
 
 
penitentvandal
19:29 / 13.04.03
Of course you should be scared walking down a dark alleyway, Ana, but not to the extent of being crippled by the fear. If you need to walk down the alleyway, walk down the alleyway. Take that on whatever level you want.

And yes, succumbing to the dark side is a cliche, but what I'm trying to get at is the way some people wind up so bogged down in doing bad things that they think they are bad people, and internalize that view of the world. In much the same way that some poor sods become so obsessed with doing good things that they lose that streak of nastiness you sometimes need and get the shit kicked out of them. The point is that succumbing to the 'light side' is every bit as disadvantageous as going the other way: the trick is to be able to do both and identify with neither. Y'know?

Honest.
 
 
Zhi
08:04 / 14.04.03
(I'm not sure what being a 'semi-lurker' means - i just find that i often dont have much to add to whats already been said )

I think on the looseness of the term darkness - its kind of what i'm trying to uncover, of course this is personel, illmatics refrences to grant I think are good, the idea of something Alien, in a lovecraftian sense, but also some thing that is internalised by social conditionaing. The first part for me has something of the initiatory about it (ie the potential for expansion of conciousness) whilst the second is more psychological, of course the two are deeply conected.

I'm not sure about the ying and Yang thing or at least thats what i'd question. Is it just a truism - no light with out the dark, cosmic balance etc?

On Kennygnosis (great term) I guess perhaps it is difficult to feel confident enough or in the right place to work with it - i think that hits the nail on the head - perhaps it is a matter of taking the plunge, and by doing so transcending the darth vada - goodside badside stuff? how can you every be reay to put yourself in a completly diffrent/unknown/unknowable place?
 
 
Cygnum
10:22 / 14.04.03
[quote]I use neon Erisian chaospheres[/quote]


Oh, I gotta get me one of those...
 
 
Dances with Gophers
11:24 / 14.04.03
Do you see darkness as a metaphor or as a substance?

Is darkness opposed to light? Is it a part of light? or is 'something else' altogether?


Good question! My thoughts on this.

Darkness is the absence of light, it absorbs radiation ie light heat etc it is passive unlike light which requires energy to produce.

Darkness is scary (as already mentioned) because you can't see whats coming or what is hidding in the forest. How ever darkness is good if you happen to want to hide from what is coming or whatever is in the forest.

Darkness is often used a metaphor for evil, but I personally think that they are seperate. Like most things its more how you use it, after all too much sunlight will give you skin cancer.

Try meditating in a darkened room with a blindfold or visiting one of the mines open for tourism, they will often turn out the lights, best way to experience complete darkness.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
17:22 / 14.04.03
(well you've been around for a while- yeah, I've been checking you out-but you haven't posted much but you are posting at the moment... so you can't be a lurker, so I had to make up a term )
 
 
illmatic
21:18 / 14.04.03
Annnnyway....this whole ying/yang - light/dark thing, the (rather hippy) idea of "cosmic balance" I don' think ying /yang means this at all. The way I understand it is that they are relational terms, arbitary divisons that we impose on situations and circumstance, rather than how things "really are", and that imposing one, necessitates the other (cf. Austin Spare). Insisting on one, brings the other into focus, makes it real. As some of the posts above seem to be saying the place to be is in the mid-point, perhaps I can get all arbitary and link that to the fulcrum, the changing line in the I Ching.

Maybe ignore that - I am currently straddling the drunk/sober duality (yet leaning heavily to one side, can you guess which?)

As for "Kennygnosis" - I don't know, there's other things I want to focus on for now, rather than the heavy trip his stuff implies. Scares the crap out of me to be honest. Don't know if I could handle that sort of stuff - your point about never being ready is avery acute though. What's your point of view on the whole concept?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:20 / 15.04.03
I have a suspicion that Kenneth Grant's stuff, as written, isn't really suitable for anybody else but Kenneth Grant and the members of the Nu Isis lodge who did all that stuff at the time. Which is not to say you can't get a lot of interesting and useful material from his writings, but there's so much channelled material in there that you're probably best off using his work as an example or model of practice rather than a fully functioning received system.

I'd approach Michael Bertiaux's work in a similar way. Whilst this material probably is 'divinely inspired' in some sense, it's been translated through the personal filters of the person receiving it and therefore much of it may be specific to them. Of course, there's nothing stopping any magician from downloading their own 'divinely inspired' system of magickal practice through their own trials and efforts, and the recorded experiments of people like Grant and Bertiaux could function as an interesting 20th century model for stuff like this.

I think every magician probably reaches a point where the magick takes over and they find themselves working within a fairly unique system/framework that has been developed out of their own communications with the Gods and Spirits who they work with. Look at Crowley, or John Dee, or any shaman who has wandered into the wilderness and come back with their own magickal system taught to them by the Spirits. I wouldn't attempt to impose my way of doing things on another magician, and it seems to me that trying to work entirely within Kenneth Grants system would be equally misjudged. It may be the case that the level of scary alienness required by Kenneth Grant to get good results, is not ideally suited for you, or who knows you may require even more. I think the only way to tell is to walk your own road. If you're genuinely connected up to 'the Divine' (however you prefer to frame it), then you will probably find yourself developing your own way of doing things, as unique and interesting as anything received by Kenneth Grant or Aleister Crowley or whoever, but entirely tailored to inspire your own imagination and satisfy your own needs. If a degree of 'darkness' is required in your magickal career, then this will come through of its own accord at the right time, and you'll have a chance to deal with that in your own way.
 
 
Zhi
17:17 / 15.04.03
excellent and usefull stuff...

I think on the ying/yang thing - ie not buying into the duality of it, which is what i guess the honourable illmatic is saying, i think thats right - well sounds right to me - but its a bit of a trap isnt it? because from there its a small step to think that the task is ballance - when perhaps what is called for is detachment, or perhaps to be amoral.

This leads me to think of 'darkness' as a space in which dualitues are merged or redifined in ways that highlight there ridiculousness - after all dark and light as opposites - its actualy ridiculus if you say it enough!

Gypsy lantern I like your image of darkness absorbing radiation, though i just cant see this as a passive thing - the image that springs to my mind is a kind of black hole activly pulling radiation into itself (dark astral vortex!)- or better still anti-matter. Its something that destroys 'this reality' because it transcends all the 'laws' of how the universe works - yet is inherently part of its fabric, now i'm applying that to the microcosmic level........

Meditating in a darkend room idea is good, i was on a school trip potholing years ago and we turnd our lamps out in this cavern underground, loads of the kids started to scream and stuff - but i remember just thinking that it was tottaly far out - beutiful, thanks you reminded me of that.

Gypsy lanterns remarks about KG I agree with, This is of course someting thats poping up for me - darkness that is, not KG - so theres obviously stuff there i need to explore, hence the post and the benifit of y'alls wisdom. I agree though to replicate what someone else has done is probably next to useless unless its in order to be a jumping off point, but personally i wouldnt use KG as a jumping point. But the idea of alienness deffinently strikes a chord at the moment.

HHmm, i'm off to sit a room with the lights out......
 
 
grant
19:34 / 15.04.03
All cats are black in the dark.
 
 
illmatic
19:59 / 15.04.03
There's actually an adaption of KG's work called "Typhonian Tetromatas" by Mishlen Linden. Very interesting little book, it's a series of meditations based on The Shadow Tarot designed by Linda Falario - both cases of someone adapting his system, I guess
It's actually kind of shamanic stuff, weirdly, considering his books are so bizarro qabalah...I just mention to show that someones pulled a workable system from from his stuff. I think with KG, his books are one thing, and are intended to have their own effects and inspirations. Actually going into the same areas as he has is something else again.

I talked to someone who'd worked a bit of this stuff and it sounded pretty powerful to me. I'm not at a stage in my development yet where i want to jump into this particular abyss (if I ever will). Then again, I suppose any energy/ element/ goddess has the possibility of opening up some very surprising areas, or else what would be the point...Fear is part of the gnosis with his stuff, I guess. He certainly knows how to weave a powerful glamour.

The potholing analogy is a nice one, I suppose darkness in terms of being hidden warm and comfortable is a very positive thing.
 
  
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