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re:'for the last 30 years [Ireland} has been one of Europe's poorest nations, with little political infrastructure and almost no international relevance'
quote:And this has what relevence? Northern Ireland should stay as part of Great Britain because the Irish economy is shit? Obviously we shouldn't consider doing something that will end the violence and is morally correct
You see, the problem with this thread is that you started your arguments by saying you hated (tactical error given the content of the thread) the Northern Irish, and further forcing the word by saying it was 'only half in jest.' This has meant that your arguments are hard to see as dispassionate, logical attempts to deal with the real issues in the North.
But anyway, let's move on and deal with two points:
1) economics
2) morality
The 'relevance' of my comparison between the economic conditions of Ireland and Britain to the argument is probably best argued by some of my friends in Belfast who are republicans. There is a large group of people who see the Republic as a wonderful, beautiful country, as I do. However, you only need to cross the border, less so now admittedly, to see why economics has made Northern Irish people of both 'sides' wish to stay part of Britain. For decades the South has been in economic and political chaos and Northern Irish people could not conceive of fundamentally changing their way of life to adapt to this. Small things, like Post Offices and telecommunications, hospitals, roads and education, all of these have been corrupt, inefficient and 2nd-rate compared to Northern Ireland. Of course people want to remain part of the UK. I could on with anecdotes from years of living in Belfast and visiting Dublin. Hopefully, I won't have to.
I find your idea that a united Ireland would end the violence and is morally correct, if you'll forgive me, laughable and most people from either side of the border would have the same reaction.
It is simply not possible to click your fingers and remove over 1000 years of differences between the northern province of Ulster and the other three of Leinster, Connaught and Munster. First of all, if it's any consolation, 'the Troubles' are not a purely British creation. The same split desires existed in the North from the days of Brian Boru in the 11th Century. All that happened during Plantation was that the British exploited the already present differences in the religions of Ulster peasants; i.e. treating the Protestants better because they went to the same churches.
Ulster has always been richer (purely because of arable land), and always been more strongly Protestant. Confusion does come in the late 18th Century when it was Belfast Protestants, the United Irishmen, who were fighting British landowners in Dublin for a united Ireland, but those were brief days and are long gone.
Both sides in the contemporary arena conveniently 'forget' aspects of their heritages and overly highlight others. This results in the current intractability and extremism.
To my mind, born and brought-up in Northern Ireland, a history graduate from Queen's University Belfast, a protestant of English parents and a holder of an Irish passport and dual nationality, the only 'moral' political solution is the one being worked on now. Northern Ireland and Ulster are different to the rest of Ireland, even the ancient King's realised that. The only way to find peace is to have a largely independent assembly in Belfast, with strong cross-border initiatives.
People in Northern Ireland like devolution, they all do. It gives something to aim for in Northern Irish politics which means politics is worth something. And when politics is worth something, violence is very hard to justify. We all just need to keep our heads. |
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) That's why I'd like to keep this thread going, and get some real, experiential knowledge instead of bullshit propaganda from either side. 
