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Scripts - approaches and help.

 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:42 / 09.04.03
I'm supposed to be getting in on a comic project with a couple of people. So I wanted to ask what the go with scripts are? I mean, how differnt to other types of script - film or theatre - are comic scripts? WHat's helpful? What's not? Are there examples kicking around? I'm intrigued, and though I figure muddling through is what everyone does anyway, I'd like to know if htere's anything specifically that might help me out?

Thanks.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:57 / 09.04.03
There's an existing thread here - I'm not sure if this subject belongs in Comics or Creation - it really straddles both (same goes for the Self-publishing one, arguably). What do Moderators here think?

The Warren Ellis you've never interviewed has script samples in the 'writings' section of his site. Lots of other comics writers do too.

On a 'beginner'/personal level: I don't have copies to hand now, but I can email you the scripts for the first and second Jenny Everywhere strips I've done (which you can compare against the finished, Nelson-ed version of the first currently and the second presently). In fact, Persephone was talking about making the first script available from Queer Granny, to which I have no objection.
 
 
sleazenation
13:35 / 09.04.03
Individual scripting styles vary - but most are pretty similar - Neil Gaiman includes a copy of one of his scripts in the sandman: dream country trade, the comics from marvel's nuff said event included scripts at the back.

putting on the mod hat for a minute I'm more than happy to have stuff about creating comics here. Just because its a comic section, doesn't mean that it should exclude issues surrounding the practicalities of creating them.
 
 
rizla mission
21:24 / 09.04.03
I tend to write comics scripts in a similar manner to filmscripts, only strictly divided into panels instead of shots.

I also tend to use stuff like "facing the camera" and "reverse shot" and other film terminology which obviously doesn't apply to comics, but works surprisingly well in getting across the idea of what you want a panel to look like.

The only thing that's really hard to communicate is panel arrangements - I tend to either not bother with them or assume that the page will be split geometrically into however many panels I've put onto it.
 
 
rakehell
04:48 / 10.04.03
The Dark Horse script guideline for writers is great. It covers most of the things you're likely to write.

From talking to people, scripts also differ depending on whether they're meant for a writer's eyes or an editors, with the former being more visual and the latter more narattive driven. Though, I would think, the perfect script would lie somwehere in between

Rizla > Unless the layout you have is very specific and important to the story, it's probably best to trust the artist to come up with something.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:01 / 10.04.03
Mark Millar used to have complete versions of some of his scripts for The Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men up at his site: www.millarworld.biz

Not sure if they're there anymore, though.

Yeah, Film jargon's good. Gen up on that - there's loads of books.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:10 / 10.04.03
Fly: mailing those scripts'd be great, ta.

Thanks everyone for the ideas: I think I'm going the quasi-filmy path at the moment, with rehashings along the way.

Another question: you find scripts easier to revise than chunks of narrative for, say, a novel?
 
 
Jack Fear
13:16 / 10.04.03
[Do] you find scripts easier to revise than chunks of narrative for, say, a novel?

Scripts are a lot more flexible. Don't know if I'd say it's easier exactly, but you've got a lot more options and can change the effect of a scene with relatively minor revisions—for instance, by changing the position of the panel breaks.

Comics are a hybrid artform: unlike a novel, which is a temporal object, unfolding purely in time, where a scene can last for as long as you take to read it, comics uses the spatial properties of visual arts to determine the pacing.

Say you've got a conversation between two people, a back-and-forth exchange:

JACK: So, whaddya doing tonight?
ROTHKOID: Dunno. Might see a movie. You got any plans?
JACK: Not really. Say, maybe I could come with?

Now, that entire exchange could take place in a single panel in three word balloons... or it could take an entire two-page spread, in six balloons (one for each sentence) with wordless panels interspersed. The first approach yields a casual exchange between friends: the second gives you Chris Ware-esque squirming discomfort —all those awkward silences!

That's the kind of control a writer gets from the full-script approach—precise control of the beats of a scene, controlling the temporal element in ways that can change the entire meaning of a scene.

On technical vocabulary: Like Rizla, I tend to use screenwriting terms in my scripts—two-shot, reverse, reference to the "camera eye" and such—in part because the language is very familiar to me (I did the screenwriting program at university), and in part because it's simply very useful: it's a full, pre-existing vocabulary, and anything comics-specific ends up just being a variation on standard screenplay jargon, so why re-invent the wheel?

On page layout: As you can see from the script sample at my blogI tend perhaps to be overspecific: if I knew the artist well and understood hir strengths as a storyteller, I might be go a little lighter on the detail, but for a spec script I would say you should be as specific as you can—because these things do make a difference: a six-panel page in a two-tier grid has a different effect than six panels in a three-tier grid. It's subtle, but you can feel it.

Somewhere—I no longer recall exactly where, but it might've been from James Hudnall—I picked up a shorthand for specific panel shapes: box for a perfect square, flapjack for a horizontal panel, i.e. one significantly wider than it is high, and silo for a vertical panel, i.e. higher than it is wide.

Last note: You will find that once you've been writing comics for a while, you start to read them differently: you notice layouts to a much greater extent, and notice how a writer or artist will solve a particular storytelling problem, or when they have failed to do so adequately. This may end up lessening your enjoyment of the reading experience: it's kind of like watching a magic show when you already know how all the tricks are done.
 
 
The Falcon
03:05 / 11.04.03
Or being a capable musician, I'm told.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:51 / 11.04.03
I'd actually recommend drawing the thing out in rough thumbnail form on paper before you get anywhere near a word processor, no matter how bad an artist you may be - it makes it so much easier to develop the visual narrative if you're thinking in pictures as you write it.

As a writer/artist, I've seen scripts by people that just don't make sense visually when you come to draw them because they've been written entirely on a word processor - which is always a significant distance away from the finished product. Unless you give your script a trial run yourself on paper before the artist gets it (or 3 trials, or 10), as a loosely thumbnailed mini-comic, you've got no way of accurately gauging the strength of the visual narrative, making any necessary corrections, and tightening up the flow. If you leave all those decisions to the artist, then you're effectively asking them do 60% of the writing for you. I think the artist should only really have to worry about drawing beautiful pictures, and everything else should have already been fully worked out before s/he gets it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:39 / 11.04.03
I think that kinda depends on how easy you find spatial visuallising, for want of a better term. I've found I don't necessarily need to *literally* draw the whole thing out in thumbnails, though it can be helpful. I do usually block it out in my head first - if that works for people without inducing migraines, I say go ferret.

And the extent to which you can leave layout up to an artist in turn depends, I think, on how much you trust them...
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:24 / 11.04.03
I'd still have to disagree there. I trust the main artist I work with 100%, but page layout and the exact way in which one panel relates to another and shapes narrative is as much a part of the writing process as drafting dialogue, IMHO. I know I'm a bit zealous on this, so excuse my ranting. I did used to reckon my visual imagination was strong enough to just write a script and then fire it off. But experimentation with other methods has really brought it home how extraordinarily easy it can be to overlook some very important aspects of visual storytelling, which wouldn't really be obvious until you see them on the page in front of you.

I'd really reccomend this method to anyone writing comics, to the extent that it seems really odd to me that people actually try to write them on a word processor without mapping it out on paper as a comic. I think it places such a handicap on your ability to fully engage with the medium you're working in, and it's not as if you have to be a brilliant artist to make some crappy thumbnail sketches.
 
 
sleazenation
12:04 / 11.04.03
I think this question of who does the layouts is a real locus of contention in the colaborative comics process. And as with all successful colaboration i think the key is is a bit of trust, respect and input on both sides.

Writers creating layout information as a guide can much simplify the task of an artist, and can add another leayer of meaning to a strip. An artist can often vastly improve the flow and communication of the strip through departing from the layout script (as Warren Ellis says a good artist will make you look 100 times better than you deserve too).

Its all give and take in the marrage of artist and writer. Or recrimination and acrimony.
 
  
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