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Underground > Comic Books >

Self publishing comics

  
 
Jack Denfeld
16:52 / 08.04.03
So, is it easy or hard? I guess it depends on what you want? I'm assuming an online comic would be easiest, but I'd want my comic to be distributed through Diamond, and to be able to order it from Previews, and see it in a comic shop.

I always thought the hardest part would be the printers. Doesn't it cost a couple of grand?
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:14 / 08.04.03
I worked for a SMALL SMALL SMALL indy years ago... been a while since I checked but this is what I recall...

Diamond use to print solicitations on the premis the book was completed (not "printed" but photo-copied "dummy" of the camera ready art). A publisher could then gague their print run based on the number of "orders" recieved from the diamond solication. Of course you'd print X amount to tour the cons with & there's always a minimum print order involved... 500 copies with price breaks after a 1000 (more or less).

Color comics are easily 4-5 times more costly than B/W. A 4 color cover is pretty common. Digitial pre-press has cut costs but have probably been off set by the rising costs of paper.
Many comics are printed in Canada but you may not be able to work the minimum orders... you may have to shop around for printers in the states where the eco-laws allow for cheeper printing costs...

good luck
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:14 / 08.04.03
Go to small press publishers in your area and get ideas from them. To get distributed through diamond, I've heard you have to produce over 700 copies of 3 issues (this is according to a small-press artist I met at a con). To prove what? You're serious? You're rich? I dunno. It's a tough way to go because the only benefit I can see to going through Diamond is to compete with the Big Boys. You can also submit it to Image, who would distribute it for you, but you'd still have to pay at least 80% if not all of the printing cost.

Why not start locally and small, building up revenue, learning the ropes as you go? Just my two cents. All I know is I've seen locals go through all the trouble to get into Diamond and their expensively produced comics go into the quarter bin. All true.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
17:16 / 08.04.03
Crap. Tricks knows far more than I do. Listen to him.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
17:44 / 08.04.03
I self-published a book for all of two issues before bankrupting myself, but I was being overambitious. I'll be getting right back into it this summer with another venture of my own, plus some collaborative work.

In addition, Diamond isn't your only choice for distribution. They turned down my first attempt, but Cold Cut picked it up and treated me very kindly. The majority of my orders came through their catalogue.

I can say this: despite the cost, despite worrying over how to market and arrange for distribution, despite the added scheduling and accounting effort in arranging for printing, self-publishing feels fantastic. The book is real, it's your creation, and every sale you make is earned on your merit.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:47 / 08.04.03
THANKS 6

That's high Prase coming from you !!!

Still my info is on the old side, I'm sure I call or e-mail to diamond would be much more informing...
 
 
Char Aina
19:28 / 08.04.03
i was wodering, how many here actually read a considerable amount of independent comics?
is that not one of the best ways to foster intelligent and creative works? by buying them , i mean?

it seems that amongst folks i know, there are few who actually read such toitles, but several who would like to publish them.

is it like blogs?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:59 / 08.04.03
Monthly, I stop by Jim Hanley's and gorge myself on an assload of books I've never heard of. Recently got me turned onto Sugar Free Days and Epoxy, both of which are astounding, and not nearly as read as they should be. I'm publishing my first issue this summer (in color, too, thanks to some in the clutch benefacting) and am probably going to focus more on internet distribution than through Diamond. I just fear that I won't be publishing enough copies to meet their requirements. I haven't completely done all the research for it, so maybe that's not an issue. My plan is to send freebies to high profile stores (Isotope, Million Picnic, Quimby's, etc) I know of and see if they want to carry it.

It's definitely critical to keep up on the best work being done independently, so that you know the potential of elbow grease and imagination. Jordan Crane and John Pham output spectacular work independently, that doesn't look like it was printed on their lunch break using their boss' Xerox. Which is good for some, I suppose, but I can't imagine expecting money on a book that looks like shit. To that end, I'm re-leterring about two thirds of my prologue and probably investing in a pantone guide. I will definitely be using an offset printer in the city so that I can have as much to do with process in person as possible. This is the first time I've ever done this, so I want to know how the fuck it works. I would like it done right, as well.

I'm looking for the final book to physically look like the pages of Eightball or Acme Novelty. As you all know, I use flat colors in my work and have no interest in seeing them on glossy paper. If possible, I'm looking for their style of cardstock cover. But, again, I'd like to do this locally, so I can actually go up to the guy who's printing my book and say, "Okay. I want my hair to look like this."

Anyway. Yeah. Sometimes it pays to wait for the optimal situation. Put your stuff on the web, build a following. The guys who do Diesel Sweeties and Achewood sell their collections hand over foot without setting foot into the distribution market. If it's good, it'll catch on. It will, I guarantee you, take forever, but quality is discovered eventually. It just has to be.

I also have a day job. Not relying on the book for personal sustenance helps immensely.

But I would echo the statement that end of the day, a published book is a published book. It just feels good. Or so I've heard. Or so I'm hoping.
 
 
Almost Normal
22:11 / 08.04.03
Jack,

Just read over the other post here and thought I’d chime in.

This summer I’ll be self-publishing a comic magazine. I’ve done a lot of research and from what I’ve learned Diamond is your best bet to get your comic seen (no surprise there). I’ll be submitting a sample to them at the end of this month. I have heard that it’s harder to get Diamond to accept your comic if it’s an indie type book (which is my case). But whether they decide to pick-up a book or not, Diamond has a lot of useful information on their web site about submitting samples and the timelines they work with (that will be important if you want other advertising to correspond with your feature in Previews). I haven’t seen where Diamond requires more than one issue, but I guess they might want that if it’s a continuing series.

Some other distributors that I’m also looking at and might be worth a look for you are:

Cold Cut
FM International
Desert Moon
Last Gasp

And again, just based on what I’ve been doing, I’m expecting to fork out about two grand or maybe even two and half. That’s to get the mag professionally printed and to do a little advertising.

WEE
 
 
sleazenation
09:04 / 09.04.03
Printers need not necessarily be too much of a problem or even too cash consuming, depending on what you want. Just sit down work out how many pages you want, what size you want those pages to be - how many need to be in color (and if you want to use less than 4 colors) what kind of paper stock you want to use - whether you want to use a different paper for the cover.

Once you have decided what you want you call around printers in your area (and even further a field if you like - I know one UK based self publisher who gets all his printing done in Canada) and get quotes - once you find a printer to who can deliver what you want for a price that is acceptable you make the deal.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
10:15 / 09.04.03
Rich Johnston did a few columns recently on getting listed in Previews, at www.dynamicforces.com, they were a little tongue-in-cheek, but worth checking out.

(apologies if my attempt at hyperlinking does not work)
 
 
The Natural Way
10:59 / 09.04.03
Interesting point, Toksik. I do read comics outside of those published by the big 2, but prolly not enough. Not only that, but it's all the usual suspects: Burns, Clowes, Lapham, Hernandez. Intend to check Tomine soon, and must nab a bit of Woodring (read loads, but never bought any).... So I guess I'm as guilty as any fucker for not seeking out the less well known stuff. I suppose it's a question of money really, but, I know, I know, if I didn't spend SO much on the Ultimates and NXM, I'd be able to make a more significant cash contribution to the indie scene.

I think all 'Lithers should take a vow to check out ANYTHING their fellow posters chuck out.
 
 
Persephone
12:08 / 09.04.03
Well anyway, I know that most of you are setting your sights higher than this; but Queer Granny is open to hosting your self-published comics & zines. There's a little blurb-in-progress in the FAQs or you can PM me for details. Not exactly the rich-and-famous route, but it's a place where people on the board can see your work. I can add links to webcomics, too.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
12:41 / 09.04.03
Runce: Can I put you down for a copy of the Genre City Prologue, dropping this summer?

Persephone: Genre City: http://www.benjaminbirdie.com/genrecity.html Could you link to that? Your site rocks ass.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:47 / 09.04.03
On PAPER:

Printers will sometimes have deals on rolls of paper previously purchased & used by the different publisher who then had "half a roll" or whatever left after their printrun. Of course you may not now what kind of paper it is so there probably an equal chance of it being better quality than you can afford... or newsprint!!!

Something you might want to look into. One of the reasons comics are printed at their current size is because deals can be made on leftover paper from the 8x11" magazine sized printruns...
 
 
mondo a-go-go
10:14 / 10.04.03
http://bugpowder.com/resources
 
 
patrick
01:19 / 24.04.03
My first self-published comic will be in shops next month -- a B&W one-shot called Great Ape. Just got word that my 136pg graphic novel Subatomic will be in the June issue of Previews for stuff shipping in July. That one's in full color, also self-published.

I think the barriers to self-publishing are mostly mental. Once you decide to do it, it's simple.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
19:57 / 24.04.03
[off-topic] Kids, kids. Please follow this link and read up on posting links on Barbelith. There are, like, two active moderators in this forum nowadays and I'm way too busy with school at the moment to fix everyone's linkage. Thank you very, very much. [/off-topic]
 
 
Tamayyurt
00:14 / 16.06.03
I found this site where they print comics cheap. Now my question is after you're printed a few hounded comics what do you do with them? How do you get them in the shops?
 
 
neo77
12:20 / 14.04.04

I am looking for an artist. This artist should be able to help work on the story process. I need a oerson who wants to be a sucess; a person who is willing to put in the time. I have a open mind. Talk to me!!!!!
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:47 / 14.04.04
are you paying?
 
 
Char Aina
01:30 / 15.04.04
I think all 'Lithers should take a vow to check out ANYTHING their fellow posters chuck out.

i assume you mean anything they make?
i would also say that no 'lither should throw out any comics that there are people willing to pay postage on.

perhaps there should also be a "holy fuck i cant believe how good this indy comic is! you have to find a copy!" thread. sorta like the 'what are you reading?' one in books, but with an emphasis on educating the masses to your latest favourite small title.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:41 / 15.04.04
Yes, lets all take this vow! My comic just happens to be available from Page 45 right now, handy eh? See here for more.

Benjamin: Put me down for a copy, please, for rizzle.

Keep meaning to add more to this thread. Keep forgetting/avoiding/running away/saying "I'll do it later".
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:18 / 15.04.04
Will do.

I've recently restructered 2/3rds of my entire life's focus and any new installments of Genre City are on hold until the prologue collection is finito. I'm terribly excited.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
06:53 / 16.04.04
nice to see a thread like this revived. Dream Weaver sounds interesting, thanks; anybody have seen something printed by them to get an idea of production values?

and some very useful of Larry Young's secrets of publishing:

The very best that an unknown can do with monthlies is break even. Anybody can make money with an OGN. These are just ballpark numbers, but:

Let's say that you have a $2.95 book. You get $1.18 from distributors at your discount; you have to sell 1483 copies just to pay for your $1750 printing bill for 3000 copies. Say you took out a full page PREVIEWS ad, which adds another $1200 to it. Now you have to sell 2500 copies just to BREAK EVEN. You only have 500 copies left, so your profit MAXIMIZES at $590.00 for THE WHOLE FLOPPY. If you sell out the print run, which you won't.

Say you do it as an OGN, though, with the same number of copies printed but a $12.95 price tag. Yes, it'll cost you four large or so for the print run, but you pay for your print bill and PREVIEWS ad at 1003 copies and your profit maximizes at $10,344 when you sell out of your run, which you eventually will.

This is the secret of making money in independent comics, and everyone reading this has to go out and buy a copy of the ASTRONAUTS IN TROUBLE hardcover to thank me for telling you.

----

You solicit a book, as a self-publisher. Diamond says, "That's looks great; we want 3000." Your book is a $2.95 retail book, in which you're on F discount, and so sell to Diamond at $1.18 a unit. You get $3540.00 in thirty days. BUT. For a 2% discount, Diamond will pay you in ten days. That means you get $3469.20. Doesn't make any difference to you, really, but saves Diamond some beans over all the other publishers they have to deal with.

So you get your $3469.20 twenty days before your printer bill is due, because you are on pay-in-30-days terms (net 30) with your printer, see?

If this all works like clockwork, you get paid two weeks before your print bills are due, and can theoretically produce work for no up-front outlay. Of course, I don't recemmend this for first-timers, but it's always what I think of when people tell me they can't make comics because they have no money. The fact is, you only need a magic marker and some typing paper to make comics, and if you do it well, the money takes care of itself.
 
 
scratch_uk
10:49 / 16.04.04
Hello All. Slightly off-topic here but please indulge me. I there an equivalent to 'digital webbing' here in the UK? Ive been searching for artists in the London area without a great deal of luck. Could anyone point me in the right direction?
 
 
scratch_uk
11:00 / 16.04.04
There may be pay....
 
 
kozodoman2205
20:10 / 20.04.04
thats very good i done one called kozodo man
 
 
Kitchen Music
10:04 / 04.07.06
This is all fascinating stuff; I have a friend who is becoming quite serious about his comics so this should all come in handy for him.

I've only ever approached self publishing from the 'zine-ing it' tack; drawing and inking on A4 card, going down to Staples and then assembling it myself. If anyone wants to try their hand at comics for the first time, I highly recommend this approach as it is relatively quick and cheap (a 50 copy run on a 16 page A5 comic cost me about £30 to make, including materials, which will always last a couple of issues if you're careful). It's also feels very empowering to be in complete control of the process; you decide what goes in your comic (without fear of censorship), how many copies you make and who distributes the comic for you.

The downside has to be distribution channels. After you've made your first comic, you could find yourself with no way of getting your comic out there except for giving it to your friends if you aren't familiar with the British self-publishing scene. I myself know of perhaps one or two reliable distros; Roku Press and Manifesta*, who are usually very good at getting things out, but they are by no means big hitters and you're stuff is incredibly unlikely to reach those outside of the zine reading public unless you take the comic to a Travelling Man shop or perhaps a social centre like the Basement in Manchester or the Common Place in Leeds.

But this is only just a brief summary of what I know, and I probably don't know that much; there must be a lot of details and nuances to the self publishing approach that I haven't even considered yet. I am only on my fourth issue of my own comic 'The Pony Farm', and I'm still learning.

Has anybody else had an experience with this approach to self publishing? More pressingly, should the 'zine-ing' approach be posted here? I'm new, I'm afriad, and though I thought this info might be relevant to the thread, I realise there is a possibility that I'm wrong.

*Still figuring out how to post links to different threads and sights. Will work on this soon.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:25 / 05.07.06
I still have to read the thread with atention, but this is just my own experience:

last year I self-published a split oneshot called ZOMBINGO/(IN)VERSION and it was hard. I went with Comixpress and then they didn't have their shit together. lots of delays and such. I asked for a tiny print run and it was up at their online store for sale. now ZOMBINGO is up as a webcomic at Night Office.

I'd advise - if you're only a writer - try finding a publisher first. try getting a parter to do the first pages of your script and pitch it to Image [first] and other publishers [later]. if nothing comes out of it, you can try bigger printers or on-demand houses like Ka-Blam [which seems to be much better than ComixPress].

also: try getting ISBN numbers for your book. it is the universal code for product that is made into barcodes. not that expensive and this way most retailers can take you directly [if they're willing to deal with you withou a distributor] and it makes things easier for dealing with smaller distributors as well.

with a ready-to-go book you can even try Diamond - not that easy as Rich Johnston said. tried it myself and they ask the full first issue printed for new publishers...
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:07 / 04.05.08
I've been kicking around an idea for some time and my day-job has become so intolerable that for the sake of my mental health I really need to be getting money for doing something I don't despise.
Here's my idea. In my city there's a local free magazine that you can pick up in just about every local cafe, bar, chip shop and hairdressers with cinema and gig listings, record reviews, horoscopes and the like. It has a print run of 10,000 and by my calculations sells roughly £12,000 in advertising per issue (which, if the writers are doing it for the love of the game, means each issue costs £1.20 to print, though I'm guessing it's actually a little less).
The big problem with this little 'zine, professional though it is (the new issue has interviews with Public Enemy, Benga and the Go! Team), is that there's very little incentive to read the magazine, or to keep reading every month. My idea is this- a comic book published and distributed in the same format. Something with a narrative brings people back for every issue, meaning more eyes on the pages and more incentive for advertisers.
So what are my options here? Are there companies out there who can print a run of 10,000 30 page full color comics for, let's say £10,000? How do I find them? Is this even a feasible idea or do I have to stay in my awful job?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
12:07 / 05.05.08
i suppose the best you can do is try getting the comic done, then send it to publishers that you think already put out similar material.

if you want to self-publish, you'll have to find the breaking point of how many copies to order vs. how much are they going to cost - taking into account a cover price that won't leave you penniless.

try to make it in a way that if you sell 40 to 50% of the print run [the less the best] you get your invested money back.

publishing is tricky mathematics, but you can work it out if you start small. make a research about printers that do small runs for a nice price or quality print-on-demand services. there are small publishers that order stuff from Korean printers, for examples [it takes longer in this case].

in the worst case scenario, throw the comics on the web. we're in a transition phase and it's harder to make money from this model [although there's always Wowio.com], but it's a great alternative to have more people around the world put eyes on your comic. but i know, print is still more valued as a media.

i've got some of my comics online and found some interesting print on demand houses here in Brazil. money [as usual] is the only thing preventing me from doing it right now. good luck, man, i know how you feel. =)
 
  
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