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The ends fail to justify the means... right?

 
 
Francine I
21:43 / 04.04.03
According to this article, false documents were provided in the justification of this war to the media, the world community, and to U.S. officials. While it seems to be public opinion that Bush has been thus far unwavering in his commitment to the goals and values behind this war, he has publically compromised his own rationale repeatedly, all the while rolling out brand new reasons for a war on Iraq. He (or his cabinet) has issued and withdrawn conditions for the avoidance and cessation of conflict in Iraq, announcing as each condition is met that new conditions now exist and old ones are no longer pertinent. If nothing else, Bush has made it clear to the world and to the U.S. that his motivations for war this on Iraq are concerned with anything but disarming Iraq of weapons declared illegal by the U.N. While we can argue for days as to the validity of an "Army of Liberation" fronted by the U.S., the question here is not whether or not an Army of Liberation is possible. Those referring to the American role in rebuilding parts of Europe and Japan after World War II will recall that the U.S. remained uninvolved in the conflict until war was declared by the Axis powers as a result of an act of violence against the U.S. Iraq has neither commited such an act nor given the world reason to believe it will. It's been mentioned elsewhere on Barbelith that the CIA produced a report recently declaring an attack on the U.S. by Iraq to be highly unlikely. To argue that U.S. and U.K. behaviour in this instance might be appropriate in the context of World War II is fallacious. The stated reasons for conflict by the powers-that-be have a dramatic effect on the tone, and perhaps ultimately, the outcome of the conflict. It is my contention that the irresponsible jockeying, possible overt deception, and unclear rationale that are the hallmarks of U.S. foreign policy in the context of current events are a clear indicator as to the (lack of) relative moral and political justification for this war. This war is, in many senses, wrong. Not just because it flouts the U.N. -- everyone flouts the U.N. sometimes. This war is wrong because it's rationale deceives, outright, the public of the two nations principally involved in accomplishing the war in order to secure their support. Because it shows no intellectual integrity or consistancy in the presentation of it's rationale. Because the decision to execute it was made principally by individuals who stand to benefit financially and politically from a U.S. occupied territory (even on a temporary basis) in the Middle East. Because it greatly threatens innocent individuals throughout the world -- the least of which being those of the Western democracies this war is ostensibly supposed to protect. Bush will enjoy the protection of the American Secret Service all his life for serving as President of the United States of America. I can't say the same for the U.S. and U.K. citizens who stand to bear the burden in death and injury for Bush's political agenda. I can't say the same for anyone in Iraq.

There is much talk about democratizing the Middle East in the name of protecting the West (which will soon mean "Western-style democracies") from 'Islamo-Fascism'. Unfortunately, the doctrine of democracy by force presently in action is precisely the explanation for violent acts given to Al-Q'aida recruits the world over. It might seem logical to argue that a rise in the power of Islamic extremists is a temporary but necessary evil resultant of the actions necessary to negate the societal impetus that creates them. This argument, however, utterly rejects the question of whether or not we can solve this problem by selfishly and brutally enforcing our worldview and projecting our interests onto the politics of Middle Eastern Arab nations. I believe this question, thus far ignored: Will a free and wealthy post-war Iraq excuse the blatant disrespect for the arena of world opinion and especially the opinion of neighboring Arab states... I believe that this question is far more important than the question of Iraq's limited cooperation with U.N. sanctions or the rewards of creating another democratic state in the Persian Gulf. More important to the world, and even, in the long run, to the U.S. It seems to be the stance of many Americans that overwhelming military might is equal to a lack of negative consequence, functionally speaking. They do acknowledge that this war will likely fuel the hatred of extremists, and perhaps even ignite the concern of moderates. But they don't translate that into an actual failure to protect U.S. interests or, perhaps more importantly, the failure to be a responsible member of a world community. To make the claim that Saddam 'did it first' is totally inane -- that doesn't excuse everyone else from their obligations or responsibilities. The U.S. has almost consistantly been involved in violent uprising and even the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons in the Middle East for thirty years.

In a sense, we've been trying to engender demoracy in the Middle East for thirty years. Really, as long as despotic states are willing to support the financial interests of Western democratic states, we don't concern ourselves with their method of government or their human rights record. It is only in the case that a profit stands to be made that we tamper in the politics of the Middle East. In reality, this is an awfully convenient battle for democracy.

How can we honestly assert ourselves in the name of freedom and in the name of the Iraqis, given our track record of self-interested military tampering that leaves opposition movements to be crushed by dictators; that leaves dictators in the position to enforce rigid theocracy and more? Is it a reasonable contention that the result of our past involvements in Middle East politics still leave us in a position of moral superiority due to their state now? Must Saddam's brutal regime be dismanted immediately, by the U.S. and the U.K., with no delays, no contention, no blessing from the U.N.? Is this necessary and desirable? Is this the only way? For a while there, everybody but Bush was optimistic about the inspections. What changed?

Bush talks about democracy and freedom and the crimes of Saddam's regime while others, some responsible for planning this war and the policy that governs it, talk about the importance of having U.S. military control to assure a continual flow of oil toward the U.S. economy. Some even emphasize the importance of controlling the flow of oil to the rest of the world as a sort of preventative measure to deal with other economically formidable nations who may one day militarility challenge us. What's really being implied by foreign policy in Washington is that the ends justify the means. According to Washington, U.S. government is quite simply the best in the world, and prolifering U.S. government can only result in good things for everybody. Washington knows, however, that much of the world does not agree. As far as Washington is concerned, those nations that practice a disorderly form of dissent against Washington's political ideals have become too unstable. It has become not only morally justifiable to the political elite of America, as anything that will bring third-world, depostic nations into the cradle of Western society is indeed seen as good, but also strategically necessary. Strategically necessary because, as has been pointed out by others, many Arab nations have little interest, being nearly as insular as the U.S., in helping along U.S. agendas in the Middle East -- but they simultaneously enjoy residence on one of the most politically and economically important chunks of land in the world. This puts us all at an impass. Most Arab nations are not yet sure they want to make the switch to democracy. It's not easy to make these transitions without violence -- not always because of any great evil on the part of those in office, but because it's hard for enough people to be sure, all at once and in the same way, that democracy is the right thing to do. Furthermore, it's difficult to manage the transition of those currently in leadership, as they are needed to help transit the control of national resource away from the state. You'd have to admit, that'd be an odd task to be managing after spending your life governing those very resources for the state. But would you trust those who stood up for office after the present leadership stood down to manage affairs well? It's not a simple task, breaking old habits. Not for the people, not for the state.

All these things in consideration, then, this war was a bad idea. It was introduced and at first waged through sometimes clumsy and sometimes deft P.R. maneuvering. There is good reason to believe it is being persecuted for purely selfish reasons on the part of certain wealthy Americans who have no sense as to the realities of war, and still the U.S. calls this action "Operation Iraqi Freedom". Some of the ideas that were tossed out by the Bush administration during the justification phase of this operation were, in a sense, valid. In my opinion, however, they do not validate Bush's (or the Coalition's) actions in a larger context. In my opinion, even the discovery of a cache of chemical and biological weapons under Saddam's bed in the Presidential Palace would not excuse the manner in which the case for this war was handled. The September 11th attack on the U.S. is not analagous to Pearl Harbor, and even if it were, the Japan in this scenario is an ideological group more alike to a corporation than a country. The reasons behind the war in Iraq right now seem to have much more to do with nationalism than security, freedom, war crimes, or weapons of mass destruction. While I will not have the facts necessary to argue from a standpoint of historical evidence for or against the war in Iraq until all is said and done, I believe it is necessary to opine on what information I do possess, and to oppose the war and Bush's conduct accordingly.

Do more people feel this way than it seems?

I would welcome a rebuttal, and I promise to keep a cool head. This is important to me.
 
 
Fist Fun
11:25 / 06.04.03
The reasons behind the war in Iraq right now seem to have much more to do with nationalism than security, freedom, war crimes, or weapons of mass destruction.

I think the war has a confused idea of nationalism. Is Iraq the country being attacked or is it the current administration? Aggression or liberation? We'll only really know when the dust has settled.
 
 
Undecided
17:14 / 07.04.03
Ummm...what you said.

And well said, Frances. At least insofar as you have more or less articulated my own position on the war far better than I ever could have.

There's a lot about this to-do that pisses me off, but I think that the outright lies told to the public-at-large are at the top of the list. Mostly because I don't think that this would be happening if the Bush administration were the least bit honest about their intentions. This war is accepted by so many people because those in charge of it are liars who exist within a system that is perpetuated so that they can continue to be liars.

But, yes, I'm fully aware that honesty and full disclosure would be, in this case and many others, political suicide. I'm just saying, is all.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
18:18 / 07.04.03
I would like to attempt that rebuttal, if I may - although you may find this too mild a response. I agree with many of your points.

It is, as you state, absolutely clear that Bush and his administration wanted this war from the start, and were willing to deceive their own citizens and the representatives of the UN to gain their support. However, that isn't reason enough to assume that the motivations for war are "concerned with anything but disarming Iraq of weapons declared illegal by the UN". If, in fact, these weapons exist, it is in America's best interest to eliminate them. Hence, it is entirely possible that this elimination is part of the driving force behind the war.

Furthermore, reference to the American role in rebuilding damaged nations after WWII may not be as invalid as you claim. Post WWII, American aid helped to rebuild France among others, after it suffered damages from an occupying dictatorship. American aid also assisted in the rebuilding of Japan after it suffered damages from American strikes. Whether one argues that America is responding to an oppressive regime with expulsive force or aggressively targeting the nation, they won't be doing anything they haven't done before. "Who attacked first" doesn't really bear much relevance when one is talking about who will absorb the cost of reconstruction - unless one is to apply the lens of justice, in which case the aggressor would naturally be assigned the role of provider. Which is exactly what is being proposed by the American administration.

How deceived, exactly, is the public in this case? We know quite well that the administration declares that it is seeking an end to Hussein's Ba'ath regime and the destruction of any weapons of mass destruction that may yet remain in Iraq. They say that they hope to free the people of Iraq from dictatorship and pave the way for democracy there. We suspect (and it isn't hard to read between the lines) that there is further economic motive, related to the oil fields of Iraq (and this suspicion is borne out by the behavior of the powers involved: France and Russia, with large oil contracts tied in with the existing regime, are opposed - while American firms are lining up to take advantage of the clean-slate aftermath that will most certainly result). There is no reason to believe that America's administration is not seeking the destruction of the Ba'ath regime and their alleged weapons. Now that the encouragement of democracy is one of America's stated goals in Iraq, it would be an embarrassment to them if another dictatorship arose.

Will a free and wealthy post-war Iraq excuse the blatant disrespect for the arena of world opinion and especially the opinion of neighboring Arab states...

I believe here, you have asked the most pertinent possible question, and highlighted what may prove to be the Bush Administration's greatest diplomatic error in this conflict. Even in a best-case scenario for a post-war Iraq, will the war be justified? And, perhaps more importantly, will it be seen to be justified? One might say that the latter is more important than the former, especially if we're talking about the potential for inspiring a new generation of terrorists. What will Iraq's neighbors think of the post-war arrangement? Will they tolerate a prosperous democratic Iraq, as created by American intervention?

Does that question, however, point to a failure on the part of the U.S. to play a responsible part as a member of the world community? The answer to that depends on what you think constitutes responsibility, and how inclusive you are. That is: if the action America takes is considered provocative, then their failure is evident. If it is responsive, then failure can only result from the aggressive action of Iraq's neighbors, and from the terrorist individuals.

To those who argue in favor of liberation of Iraq by military means (and I am unabashadly one of those), the response to this question:

Must Saddam's brutal regime be dismanted immediately, by the U.S. and the U.K., with no delays, no contention, no blessing from the U.N.?

is yes. YES. The delay has already been significant - fourteen years since Hussein demonstrated a willingness to unleash unimaginable brutality on his own citizens. Eleven years since he made clear a violent, expansionist intent. Six months since the proposal to dismantle the regime was made to the UN. How long is too long to wait? How many people have do die under the regime while economic incentives are bandied back and forth in the UN? Over three hundred and seventy-five thousand civilian deaths in Iraq under the Ba'ath regime in the last decade, according to the Human Rights Watch. Is that enough? Or should we be waiting for more?

And while I agree that Washington's foreign policy is arrogant (at best), it is hardly accurate to claim that they have labeled nations that display dissent as "unstable". Canada, for instance, is among the nations that expressed both civil and political dissent with the policy in Iraq, and America has hardly targeted them for punitive action (although much has been made of statements of "disappointment" from Capitol Hill).

In the end, I have to say that your post shows a lot of consideration, and a rather deep regard for issues of responsibility, awareness, and co-operation in the global theatre. I share your worries about the outcome of the war, and I agree that the Bush Administration has failed to conduct themselves with the honesty and forthrightness one would expect from a force that places itself in a position of moral superiority. Furthermore, I fear that the Administration is being less than honest about their plans for the future of Iraq, and that their action there might tend more towards their history of ill-advised interference (see: Iran) than their more beneficial assistances. I fear that the conflict may lead to a spate of greater violence, and the aftershocks may take some time to die down.

As an individual with libertarian views, deeply opposed to the totalitarian oppression of any peoples anywhere in the world, I take the stance that outside interference can be called for, and should be undertaken in some cases. I believe Iraq is one of those cases, and am saddened that an economic imperative needs to present itself before the case is seriously considered by the American Administration. I am further dismayed to see that the United Nations is reluctant to take the necessary action to eliminate the totalitarian dictatorship, and that the economic motives of the members most vocally opposing the conflict are all too apparent as well.

I hope this response serves, and appears anywhere nearly as well thought out as the post that invited it.
 
 
Francine I
16:19 / 08.04.03
Hello Ray,

Thank you for your rebuttal. My response follows.

"If, in fact, these weapons exist, it is in America's best interest to eliminate them. Hence, it is entirely possible that this elimination is part of the driving force behind the war."

If, indeed. I think it's a good possibility. There's this matter of the U.S. having sold Iraq Botulism, Anthrax, and Sarin to be employed against the Iranians and Kurds. We know that a country with a decaying, highly centralized form of government, such as Iraq, probably has some of these weapons somewhere, which they themselves no longer have record for. We sold them a considerable quantity. They probably have Weapons of Mass Destruction, somewhere. It's my opinion that if in fact they know they have these weapons (and where they are), they will deploy them in defense of Baghdad at some point.

More importantly, it's worth noting that Iraq entirely lacks the effective delivery medium necessary to employ WMD effectively in a war with a remote nation -- like the U.S. U.N. inspections do successfuly impede the process of amassing weapons, even if pre-existing weapons could be shuffled around in, say, refrigerated vans. We can therefore say that continued diplomatic pressure would, if nothing else, effectively freeze any diabolical plans Mr. Hussein might hatch. If what I say is true, war is then an excessive means of dealing with the relatively minor threat posed by Iraq in the world arena.

I thoroughly believe that had Weapons of Mass Destruction been the primary motive for this invasion, the administration would have unwaveringly emphasised the rationale behind the perceived threat. The administration, however, did just the opposite -- leaping from reason to reason, erecting a brand new argument when an old one comes into question. This behaviour is highly suspect.

"Whether one argues that America is responding to an oppressive regime with expulsive force or aggressively targeting the nation, they won't be doing anything they haven't done before. "Who attacked first" doesn't really bear much relevance when one is talking about who will absorb the cost of reconstruction - unless one is to apply the lens of justice, in which case the aggressor would naturally be assigned the role of provider. Which is exactly what is being proposed by the American administration."

The problem I see with this reasoning is that the U.S. stands to benefit politically and economically from even a six month occupation of Iraq, and U.S. corporations will enjoy a brand new economy in Iraq. The U.S. has made numerous overtures to an overwhelming list of "regimes" that need toppling. Sure, they all could threaten the U.S. at some point in the future -- politically, economically, militarily. But when did this become a reason to roll out the bombs? It feels to me like folks are essentially saying that "This is like toppling Nazi Germany before they became strong!" .. but Iraq is not Nazi Germany, and the Coalition is not going into Iraq to defend against an actual enemy, but rather, a potential enemy. In fact, this was one of Hitler's greatest tricks. Hitler had a way of making a pre-emptive attack sound like a reasonable defense. This does not, however, equate Bush to Hitler. This, from an anti-war standpoint, is a tempting but deceptive logical leap. Likewise, from a pro-war standpoint, comparisons to the heroic and generous U.S. foreign policy resulting in the rebuilding of suffering nations after WWII is a bit of a leap.

The U.S. had the opportunity to delay the policy decisions regarding who would be awarded the reconstruction contracts. This could have given an air of legitimacy to the proceedings. Unfortunately, in the first few days of the war, the administration announced that the U.S. would enjoy all of the economic benefits of this war. A little early for this announcement if you ask me.

The fact that some of the same things went on during and after WWII does not remove the context from which these most current events must be judged.

"That is: if the action America takes is considered provocative, then their failure is evident. If it is responsive, then failure can only result from the aggressive action of Iraq's neighbors, and from the terrorist individuals."

Provocative in what sense? If you mean a massive upheavel and divide of world opinion, lining the U.S. up squarely against the safety of world peace as defined by many Europeans and most Middle-Eastern Arabs, then the U.S. has already failed. If you mean provocative in the sense of law-flouting, vigilante action demonstrating flagrant disrespect for all forms of dissent, we've met that qualification, too. Or are you saying the U.S. has only made a poor decision in the event that the Arab world decides to fight back against a perceived threat to their freedom from bombs? That might not be as unlikely as it seems to folks watching U.S. news.

"What will Iraq's neighbors think of the post-war arrangement? Will they tolerate a prosperous democratic Iraq, as created by American intervention?"

This is a good question. Although, I must first qualify -- the queston you highlighted as the most fundemental to the issue -- that is fundemental mostly to American interests. Here's what I think: We should understand that Iraq's neighbors will not and do not trust U.S. motivations in the Middle East. That's just the way it is. We've given them reason to be suspicious for thirty years. Will they tolerate it? Providing nothing terribly fucked up happens, they will. For the most part. The Middle Eastern Arabs are far more peaceful than they seem in the Western media glare. Will they agree with it? Emphatically, no. From their standpoint, this is American interventionism, and we have done very little to convince them otherwise. But there are more questions. Will a U.S.-created Iraqi government fuel the extreme anger of Islamic extremists? Will those Islamic extremists have more places to go if Middle Eastern countries begin distrusting U.S. influence even more? Fighting a war in Iraq is to U.S. national security what consuming a candy bar is to your body's nutritional balance. To the brass of the U.S. economy, though, it's like methamphetamines.

"Over three hundred and seventy-five thousand civilian deaths in Iraq under the Ba'ath regime in the last decade, according to the Human Rights Watch. Is that enough? Or should we be waiting for more?"

A powerful rhetorical argument. Makes it sound like brooking any dissent would be distracting from the issue. I've seen quotes alleging that 500,000 Iraqi civilian deaths have resulted from what some consider to be poorly designed U.N. sanctions preventing Iraq from selling their oil for a reasonable price in exchange for a reasonable product. The culpability for those civilian deaths is not nearly so clear as you make it sound. To give this some perspective, why haven't we applied some of this brave U.S. take-no-shit attitude to the Israel-Palestine conflict? Why is Iraq so urgent while atrocities outnumbering those and not involving our interests don't make fifth page news in U.S. papers? If one day the U.N. or the World Court manages to bring Israel to justice for all those human right's atrocities, what happens to the U.S. -- the venture capitalist funding and legitimizing the handling of the conflict thus far?

"...and that the economic motives of the members most vocally opposing the conflict are all too apparent as well."

It's true -- everyone's hands are dirty. But then, I mean everyone. We highlight Germany and France and their interest in Iraqi oil because they are some of the most powerful forces in opposition -- but I don't think that constitutes an invalidation of their standpoint. All these positions must be judged in equal light.

I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my post. I hope my response has been valuable. Please let me know if I missed any of your points -- I've been a bit hurried as of late.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
18:46 / 08.04.03
There's this matter of the U.S. having sold Iraq Botulism, Anthrax, and Sarin to be employed against the Iranians and Kurds.

You're right, and I think we both agree - if these weapons exist, and the American Administration knows they exist (or think they know) then they've got a reason to go in there. The reason is muddied further though - are they going in because they want to prevent the use of these weapons, or are they going in because they want to prevent the use of weapons that may ultimately be discovered to have been made in America?

What we're talking about, then, is a potential half-truth. The end result though - destruction of the weapons - is still a valuable one. For this specific point, I'd say ends do justify means.

The problem I see with this reasoning is that the U.S. stands to benefit politically and economically...

True...but the US has always benefitted politically and economically from assisting the reconstruction of any war-torn state. The logic behind using this to question their justification is somewhat circuitous. If the US cannot claim that their willingness to aid in rebuilding the nation is a valid act of goodwill (because they will certainly reap benefits) then neither can any other nation that is willing to show goodwill to Iraq - because they all stand to benefit. If, furthermore, the US cannot justify attacking Iraq (because they cannot justify participating in its reconstruction) then the opponents of the war must similarly remove themselves from opposing the attack - because they benefit from the current regime, paid for with the blood of citizens. As you mention - all players in this game (and, let's face it, global politics in general) are dirty, and there is no way to avoid that.

Here, to return to your original question, I must say that I am personally confused. Do the ends justify the means in this case? I think we can only tell that in the end. If the American Administration treat Iraq as an ally after the war, both American and Iraqi citizens stand to gain from the reconstruction. If they treat Iraq simply as a resource, only America will gain. In the former case, we have a favorable result (admittedly, at considerable cost - but my contention is that the cost of peace with the Ba'ath regime is worse) in the latter, an abominable one.

Provocative in what sense?...
Provocative in the sense that America is seeking to make war instead of peace. Now before accusations of naivete are levelled at me, I need to clarify. If America's motive is a war-mongering seek-and-destroy misson targeting all potential enemies, it will soon become clear. If their motive, however, really is the disruption of a cruel regime and the elimination of weapons of war, we will likewise know soon enough. In the former case, they are provocateurs. In the latter, they are responding to a threat (perhaps not to themselves, but to others as well) and eliminating it. In that latter case, violent reprisal should be unfavorably looked upon.

We should understand that Iraq's neighbors will not and do not trust U.S. motivations in the Middle East. That's just the way it is. We've given them reason to be suspicious for thirty years. Will they tolerate it? Providing nothing terribly fucked up happens, they will.

From a libertarian perspective then, you are arguing my point - that the war is justified despite the lies of the Bush Administration. If Iraq is rebuilt into a democracy and it is tolerated by its neighbors, has the situation not improved significantly for the citizens of Iraq?

The price paid by American people - the increased activity of extremists - is one that many are not prepared for. But is it a reason to avoid the conflict? I am led to believe that it must be acceptable. A sentiment I feel strongly applies: if we would fight and die for our own freedom under threat of oppression, what kind of people are we if we quietly let it happen to somebody else?

The culpability for those civilian deaths is not nearly so clear as you make it sound.

I'm sorry, but that culpability is exactly as clear as I make it sound. It is the fault of those who order the deaths - the Ba'ath party of Iraq.

To give this some perspective, why haven't we applied some of this brave U.S. take-no-shit attitude to the Israel-Palestine conflict?

You're right, of course - but you're not arguing in favor of peace there, unless you're saying that because we've done nothing to stop a crime in one place, we should do nothing to stop a crime in the other. I argue the reverse - America, as well as the responsible nations of the world (most specifically, the United Nations, a body with a declared mandate to spare humanity from suffering in conflict) should be putting an end to the kind of injustice we're talking about - in Iraq, in Israel, wherever - and they shouldn't need any reason beyond the crimes in questions. Why is it necessary to say that elimination of weapons of mass destruction is the motive here?
 
 
Pemulis / Dee Vapr / Hungrygho
20:09 / 08.04.03
A salient article:

http://english.aljazeera.net/topics/article.asp?cu_no=1&item_no=2154&version=1&template_id=277&parent_id=258
 
 
Francine I
15:36 / 10.04.03
Ray,

I've been deliberating over how to respond to your argument. In your most recent response, you've isolated certain quotes of mine and rebutted them; but lacking context the argument has become distorted. For instance, you say: "You're right, and I think we both agree - if these weapons exist, and the American Administration knows they exist (or think they know) then they've got a reason to go in there", in response to my point that the U.S. provided Hussein with certain chemical and biological weapons and that some of those must still be unaccounted for in Iraqi stockpiles. However, my conclusion was just the opposite of yours, and this would've been clearly illustrated had a more representative portion of my statement been used in the response. In order to clean the slate, then, I will be using none of your quotes. Instead, I will attempt to distill your argument into core statements that we can agree upon. Please let me know if I've misrepresented your opinions.

i. If the U.S. has a reasonable claim that WMD exist somewhere in Iraq, the U.S. is therefore justified in attacking Iraq pre-emptively.

ii. The U.S. cannot be denied humanitarian or altruistic credit for rebuilding Iraq, as everyone involved in rebuilding any country will always stand to gain from their efforts.

iii. (I know this is loaded, but this is essentially what you're saying) Any resistance short of violent response on the part of neighboring countries is acceptable, as a democratic state in Iraq is a significant enough improvement in affairs to warrant seriously upsetting Arabs who (justifiably) fear Western interests in the Middle East.

iv. The U.S. and other powerful countries have the priveledge and duty of deposing rulers who have a track-record of mistreating their people.

My response:

In regards to the first point you've raised, I think I've shown that contextually, this situation is far too sticky. If America knows there are Chemical and Biological weapons in Iraq because America sold them to the Iraqis, America is not henceforth justified to act militarily in Iraq to disable or destroy these weapons. This is not taking responsibility and cleaning up the world -- it's more like framing the Iraqi government and taking their political assets. You yourself did not disagree with my reasoning indicating that Iraq likely possessed WMD because they don't have the means to keep a reliable inventory of their own weapons. This, if true, validates further efforts to enforce Iraq's cooperation with U.N. weapons inspectors. It does not automatically validate war.

In address of your second point, I'd like to first clear the air by verifying that we both agree that comparisons to post-war efforts in Europe to clean up after WWII are questionable. Providing we agree thus far, these are my principal concerns: That the rebuilding of Iraq will occur in the context of a U.S. occupation. That, as we see often in globalization, U.S. efforts to privatize Iraqi assets and infrastructure will result in the Iraqis being compensated considerably less than is fair for their national resources. Finally, that American contractors will limit the work market in a Capitalist Iraq to English speaking Iraqis who hold dear Western values. Those who do not speak English and who do not endorse Western values will likely find themselves working difficult, laborious positions for a thankless amount of pay. These events sound like things we Americans should take for granted -- but to the Iraqis, they're going to feel like colonialism.

To respond to your third point, I don't feel it's acceptable to utterly flout the sentiment of the folks who actually have to live there just because they probably won't mount an armed resistance. I do not think a forcibly imposed democratic state is so wholesome, so good, so advantageous to everyone involved, that it's virtue will overwhelmingly quell the concerns of Arabs in the Middle East who know better than to count their eggs before they've hatched. A little more money flowing into Iraq does not automatically render the discomfort that results in a huge occupying force sleeping right next door moot. These things, I feel, do matter. Far more than your average American cares to consider. You see, we Americans have only experienced one "regime change", and that was voluntary -- and profitable. The Middle East has been experiencing regime change for a very long time, now. And believe me, they don't like it.

And lastly, the concept that it's perfectly acceptable for free countries to "liberate" other countries if their rulers have poor track-records. I'm not so much interesting in arguing that point unilaterally -- only how it applies to this situation. And in the context of this situation, as I've mentioned, this an awfully convenient battle for freedom and democracy. Israel -- ask any Middle-Eastern Arab -- is the source of more pain and suffering in the Middle East than all of the depostic Arab regimes combined. Why, then, does Iraq come first? Because ten years from now they might save up enough money and garner enough resources for themselves so as to attack the U.S.? Then call it self-defense; But if you're going to call it self-defense, acknowledge that the Iraqis themselves were damned near defenseless. You see, there are bigger fish to fry in the freedom pond -- and we not only ignore, but finance those particular threats to world peace. Our hands are too dirty to go innocently charging into Iraq screaming about freedom and democracy, and most Arabs are too intelligent to go chalking our behaviour down to youthful exuberance.
 
  
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