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Underground > Comic Books >

Will Epic work?

17:09 / 30.03.03

Will the Epic line work? Just amatures writing and drawing? Besides Millar doing that trouble book. And with Millar on board, does that mean that the line will actually be about 50/50 pro/newcomer. More, one way or the other? Will people buy the books? I thought I heard someone say Epic was planning to put out at least 60 books to begin with. Can the market support that? Will they solicit these books through Previews and put the advertising into it? Will Epic work?

My own thoughts, would be that Epic should be a majority of unproven talent, but also a place where big names who want to do creator owned stuff can go.

The submissions guidelines are a bit iffy. You send in a full script, no proposal for a series, but then they can call you and tell you if they want a longer series? Does that mean no dangling cliffhanger at the end of the script you send in?

I'm glad Joey Q put to bed that thing about having to have a pg only script. That saves a great deal of headache.

A perfect Epic book would be a relaunch of What If? as it could have different creative teams each issue.

The Photographer in Blowup

17:32 / 30.03.03

Just amatures writing and drawing

I suppose every artist starts somewhere - these guys are just lucky because they'll be working for the biggest comic book company from the start - Okay, DC is selling more at the moment, but just wait until Jim Lee leaves Batman...

Marvel has said they'll accept submissions from everyone - professionals included, if they want to be in; Mark Millar is there probably just to give this new line some credibility - although they could have choosen someone else for that.

Depending on the characters, i'm sure people will buy: of course if it's a new ongoing series about Brother Voodoo or The Woodgod - really, don't ask - no one will be buying; but i'm sure there will be ideas for Silver Surfer, Doctor Strange, Iron Fist, Ghost Rider... and there's always market for that.

Jemas didn't say they'll be putting out 60 titles to begin with - he would be happy to see the line starting with 60 titles - guess he's very confident that every amateur out there will be pitching new ideas.

A perfect Epic book would be a relaunch of What If? as it could have different creative teams each issue.

Why don't you write one and submit? Seriously, what do you have to lose?

The Natural Way

17:44 / 30.03.03

Nah...there's gotta be a cliffhanger, Jack. You've gotta leave 'em wanting more. Just make sure you've told a cool, complete story first.

18:00 / 30.03.03

the creator-onwned terms look like shit to be avoided like the plague.

if know creatos can pitch to Marvel Knights or MAX to revamp old characters, what's the use? and, most important: will they have enough staff to reviwe all the proposals? I believe by next month it'll be paper mayhem at the Marvel bullpen.

00:43 / 31.03.03

hey, is there a little background info to this thread... what's the basic story, here?

01:12 / 31.03.03

Marvel Comics reviving its Epic imprint, putting out an open call for submissions.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:28 / 31.03.03

I think Epic could work, if the money is there. That's one of the reasons it's failed in the past. Vertigo comics don't (IIRC) make much money for the DC-AOL megolith, but they support that because when they do have a success then the trades make a bundle. I don't think Marvel has managed to sustain Epic long enough through failures to find their 'Sandman'/'Preacher'/'Transmetropolitan'.

13:56 / 31.03.03

"Nah...there's gotta be a cliffhanger, Jack."

I think "What If" could work, sure. It would never attract a massive following but self contained stories in a single issue are a great way to attract new readers. Continuity puts a lot of people off reading 'cos they don't know what's gone before. Doing shorts is difficult to do well, though.

14:00 / 31.03.03

Oh,yeah, and I agree that Epic could work with enough money. Marvel Films must be rolling in it. If some of that money gets chanelled into Epic then YAY.

The Natural Way

14:09 / 31.03.03

As I said: tell a complete story, but leave something hanging. Shut up, scottish.

14:28 / 31.03.03

Runce has a turd hanging out of his anus. He's obsessed with leaving things hanging.

Sorry.

Ignore this post.

02:18 / 01.04.03

"Script Content Guidelines

Please keep all script content PG or below. This means no nudity, sex, swearing, drug use, or graphic violence on-panel."

FUCK that! New X-Men wouldn't even be allowed under these content rules. I don't want to read children's books, guess EPIC ain't for me (Not to mention the shady payment structure).

Maybe, someday, Marvel might have a creator ownership imprint that isn't a kids line. Till then, there are a lot of companies out there that do it right. If I was pitching a creator owned series, Epic would be last on my list as it is today.

04:50 / 01.04.03

Naw, Joe said at his site to disregard the pg thing.

The Photographer in Blowup

16:35 / 01.04.03

Use all the violence, nudity and swearing you want - but is it really necessary? I think that's actually the problem with the MAX titles... too much sex and drugs and shit and no real substance whatsoever.

Vertigo never had to advertise a naked Ragged Robin to sell more.

23:46 / 01.04.03

On the topic question, I don't think there's a big enough market for ten, let alone sixty, reimaginings of old Marvel characters. I don't care how good the story is, I'm not going to be instantly attracted to a new tale of US Agent, or some hero of that level. I think Marvel would be better served by putting out a new line that puts out books by indie creators, books that aren't set in the Marvel Universe. I'd suspect that many indie books would get mainstream acceptance if they had Marvel production values, and Marvel's distribution system. I'm hoping this will evolve like Vertigo, from quality takes on old superheroes, to original creator owned stuff.

Economically, if they have one massive hit, that'll probably support the entire rest of the line, based on their economic model.

08:46 / 02.04.03

Vertigo never had to advertise a naked Ragged Robin to sell more.

Vertigo sales are not very good, though. The Invisibles was very fortunate to be published in its' entirety.

The Natural Way

10:11 / 02.04.03

I agree with Patrick, and it's precisely why I HAVEN'T gone the re-imagining-of-Speedball-route. I wouldn't bother writing anyone that didn't have the potential to be big. Has anyone thought of doing Namor? He's a big gun that's just crying out to WORK.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:59 / 02.04.03

Marvel already have a hip, young version of Namor on the way, Runceor.

Remember kids: always recycle - TO THE EXTREME!

13:52 / 12.11.03

It's been nearly a week. I'm surprised that the official announcement of Epic's demise hasn't generated more discussion. What does everyone think, especially those who had submitted material? Do you feel ripped off or was it a good exercise anyway? Are you turned off from creating comics now, or has it just prompted you to seek out other venues? Are you going to pick up the Epic anthology, even though Marvel's leaked memo states that it might not make it to the second issue?

Despite my many reservations, I had high hopes for what Epic could have been, best expressed by one of my classmates at our shared blog.

"I won't deny that the pay structure for Epic was atrocious, or that anyone submitting to Epic would most likely get screwed over in the end. Hey, this is Marvel we're talking about. But if they were going to introduce an imprint specifically designed to allow low-selling titles the time to create an audience, why not take a real chance and try diversifying their audience base? By limiting their requirements to non-superhero fare rated PG-13 or less, Epic could have been Marvel's big chance to make long lasting Westerns, Romance, War, Sc-Fi, Horror, Martial Arts, Teen, Humour, and even Funny Animal comics for all ages. With overhead that low, why not? This way, if it succeeded even slightly, you wouldn't just be transferring money from one of your other titles to another."

So many Epic threads to choose from for past reference. This thread has the first rumours of Epic's demise, while the huge nerd riot here has all the proposals and controversy.

15:17 / 12.11.03

I submitted and I don't really feel ripped off. I put a lot of work into this script and I actually got a lot of good ideas, which I'm now cannibalizing for other projects.

14:22 / 13.11.03

Here's my Epic Experience:

Decided to submit a pitch out of interest. Drew up what I thought was a passable script using the old second-stringer Union Jack in a modern British setting. Sent it in at the beginning of July.

While I was waiting I tinkered with another script, a three-issue mini about the secret fifth member of the Fantastic Four. Sent that off beginning of September.

Heard back about the Union Jack pitch in September. Was advised to take another look at dialogue and plotting and resubmit, which I did in October - the very day that Epic closed the door to new submissions.

Towards the end of October I received a letter from a Marvel editor which said they were very interested in my ideas and while they didn't "have a project for me at the moment" I should send in some more non-comics writing samples for them to have a look at.

Then got a form letter rejecting the Union Jack resubmission this week, on the grounds that Epic had died, but again suggesting I send in other samples.

Yesterday got the same form letter for the other proposal.

What do I think of the whole episode? It pretty much went as I expected in terms of the longevity of the Epic project. I was quite pleased with the responses, especially the personal letter from Marvel. Will I do anything about it? Well, my other writing commitments are taking precedence at the moment - new novel on the go, couple of Jenny Everywhere projects in the pipeline. I've got a couple of ideas for Marvel which I might chuck at them, but it's not a massively pressing concern right now.

What kind of reaction did others who submitted get?

yawn - thing's buddy

18:59 / 13.11.03

well done sax.

hats off.

sincere 'spek on its way to you from the gorbals.

yawn - thing's buddy

19:04 / 13.11.03

but you know it's a shame when the shit people on this farcical board are right.

enjoy your double wank boys (matrix 3 was crap too, well done)

20:09 / 13.11.03

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

20:18 / 13.11.03

I think the worst thing about EPIC having its plug pulled is that we could have gotten some horror, romance, mystery and non-super-hero books out of the deal. Since they were done on a lower budget and had a lower sales expectation, some experimentation could have happened with a company that had some money for promotion.

And with the news today that Shonen Jump sold 305,000 of their last tracked issue and orders for 500,000 orf their most recent on non-comic shop outlets, we ARE on the verge of a major change in comics. I just don't know if the companies who are publishing them now are going to be involved.

12:03 / 14.11.03

I think the worst thing about EPIC having its plug pulled is that we could have gotten some horror, romance, mystery and non-super-hero books out of the deal. Since they were done on a lower budget and had a lower sales expectation, some experimentation could have happened with a company that had some money for promotion.

Not to start this all up again, but you really, really don't need EPIC to see some experimentation happen in comics. All of this lamenting that a great chance for variety in comics has been denied us is exactly what I was worried about when EPIC was announced...figuring that Marvel might not carry through on its promise.

There are creators out there who are working hard to bring you experimental works, and they need support. They might have the money to promote if we give it to them.

There are also all sorts of avenues to put your own experimental works together and release them to the public.

Why grouse about Marvel's failure to do so? They're your source for superhero books targeted at adolescent males, and they've made it pretty clear that they aren't really looking to do anything else.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

12:15 / 14.11.03

I DO support experimental and "off genre" work...but the compnaies that publish it don't have the financial backing to get it out of comic shops and into the hands of the general public.

The ones that do are getting GREAT success...Shonen Jump is now selling a half million copies on newsstands and by subscription. Gloomcookie and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac are selling thousands of copies every month in Hot Topics. Love Hina is outselling a lot of regular paperback in bookstores.

However, my opinion is that if Marvel and DC don't try it, they will go the way of the dinosaur, but with their current distribution setup, they can't make a profit on off-genre work. Look at the early cancellation of Bad Girls for example...or all of the other off gerne stuff that barely makes it. Even Grant "The Filth" only sold about 14,000 copies of its last issue.

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:42 / 17.11.03

Even Grant "The Filth" only sold about 14,000 copies of its last issue.

Maybe this would have done better if the previous 12 issues had been of a higher and more engaging standard.

And Cameron, you know what he means. You killed Epic. And you made it so that the Matrix sequels were bad. You did that. That was you.

19:09 / 17.11.03

I don't think 14,000 copies in a month is bad. Look at how many copies bestselling paperbacks sell in the UK - in the top ten, it's about 6,000 in a week at the height of their popularity.