BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Experimental poetry?

 
 
paw
14:29 / 30.03.03
do any of you know anything about experimental poetry, the really weird stuff? any authors or movements you might suggest, post-modern, modern, i've come across the waste land and e.e cummings but i know theres more out there.
 
 
The Dadaist
01:57 / 31.03.03
Try to read Oliverio Girondo and Alejandra Pizarnik (my favourites poets) if you speak Spanish.
 
 
The Dadaist
02:17 / 31.03.03
In PizarnikĀ“s poems pay attention of the "desdoblamiento del Yo" (I love this phrase).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:10 / 31.03.03
Hmm...I'm not sure what you mean by "experimental"...the examples you have cited are probably best described as Modernist, and in that case you might want to have a crack at some Ezra Pound - Personae or the Cantos, perhaps.

Have a look at the hypertext of Canto 21 - as a project it's kind of misguided, but it might provide some context and a way in to an allusive and elliptical style.
 
 
Loomis
09:06 / 31.03.03
Yep, definitely Pound. In my opinion he's the best thing before, during and since sliced bread. He's most accurately described as Modernist, being at the centre of that movement (if it can be called such), but having said that, he was publishing for around sixty years so his work covers a lot of issues and he can easily be seen to exemplify some of the principal qualities of post-modernism.

Personae covers up till 1920, and goes from fairly "normal" poems to his 20 or so page poetic sequence Hugh Selwyn Mauberely which is pure genius. It's *fairly* experimental (more in terms of form and idea then in terms of weirdness), and was certainly so for the time, but I wouldn't call it experimental in relation to later work by himself or anyone else. It's my favourite poem though, and was the first Pound I read.

Basically from then on Pound wrote only cantos, which you can buy in one volume now, or you can get cheap selected versions. That's where the real experimentaion is. Pound was an extraordinarily well-read man, and his allusions cover the literature, language and mythology of many cultures. The way in which he deploys this information which he deemed necessary to present his vision ranges from regular references to reasonably well-known classical figures, to slabs of translated text to 2 inch tall Chinese characters in the middle of the page. He published them in sections as he went, and never went back to revise "it" as a whole, and so the whole issue of whether The Cantos is a long poem, or simply a collection of vaguely related poems of varying styles, has a long history and has spawned much debate, which is something integral to most experimental poetry, in terms of to what degree they conform to expected notions of what poetry is, or how it should be presented/packaged.

Some other large modern/post-modern poets also wrote long poems, as it seemed to be the thing to do, but to be honest I don't like much of it. Am trying to remember names now, but it's been 2 years since I've had access to my books and I'm drawing a bit of a blank. Charles Olson published a tome called The Maximus Poems which I think is a steaming pile, William Carlos Williams published Paterson which I think is okay, but fairly average really. Louis Zukoksky's A I also thought very little of. But then I'm a cranky reader and I don't like a lot of what I read. All these folks have plenty of stuff written about them, so somebody likes 'em.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:42 / 31.03.03
For modern poets, try Chris Cheek or Iain Sinclair. Check out Sinclair's anthology 'Conductors of Chaos'. Aaron Williamson is fantastic as well. And Brian Catling.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
11:17 / 31.03.03
If by weird stuff you mean the stuff that isn't immediately accessible, maybe, (at least I didn't find his stuff immediately accessible) you might want to check out John Berryman, his Dream Songs. I think I might have mentioned him to you before. I'm not sure.

Also, The Best American Poetry series has some pretty cool "weird stuff" in it. I find some of it a bit gimmicky, and I haven't determined if the body overcomes the gimmick yet. Nevertheless, I think it's all worthwhile if even just to know what folks think is the best (American) poetry right now.
 
 
Loomis
12:34 / 31.03.03
John Berryman, yes! He's one of my favourites, and I love The Dream Songs. Like you Apple-Picker, I wasn't sure whether or not he fit the bill, but you're right, it's not instantly accessible and is rather odd. Just as with Pound, when I first read Berryman I wasn't sure what was going on, but the sound and rhythm of his words had me hooked even before I had understood what the sentences were saying.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
15:19 / 31.03.03
The line that made me feel okay again after I read some of Dream Songs was in song 366:

These Songs are not meant to be understood, you understand.
They are only meant to terrify & comfort.


It's all still pretty tense stuff, but after reading that line, I didn't feel like I was going to explode anymore.
 
 
paw
17:10 / 31.03.03
i should have been more precise to be honest, to borrow applepickers words i guess what i'm really looking for is poetry that isn't immediatly accessible or to put it crudely the kind of stuff that you read and really have no idea what the fuck's going on. I'll look into all your suggestions though people, thanks.
 
 
paw
20:49 / 31.03.03
and poetry makes you want to explode apple! cool.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:03 / 31.03.03
That sounds about right - try John ashberry as well. Utterly incomprehensible.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
21:33 / 31.03.03
What about David Jones? He's pretty difficult (my personal jury is still out on whether he's any good - I liked parts of The Anathemata but couldn't be arsed with the rest of it at all and eventually sold it...). Basil Bunting, though you might find him a bit easier to wade through. Geoffrey Hill's Speech! Speech! isn't experimental in the sense you mean, I think, but it's certainly a challenge...
 
 
Harhoo
06:44 / 01.04.03
The king of the mandarin must be JH Prynne. Not only does he make Ashberry look like Richard Scarry, he's got a far greater lyric gift and a much finer mind. If you like Pound you'll probably (OK, may) like Prynne, as he's fairly influenced by him (and also speaks more sense about Pound than anybody else I've heard).

There's a (loose) Cambridge school that's gathered around him which produces a lot of interesting work too (obviously a lot of arsey, dull stuff as well) if you want to track down one branch of the cutting edge. Prynne and his clan are very 'academic' poets and, as such, his name recognition factor is far lower amongst the public than other 'difficult' authors such as Hill and Muldoon (poets and name recognition being the old saw about bald men fighting over a comb, mind), but he's certinaly one of the most influential figures in contemporary poetry, even if his influence only feeds into one, fairly restricted, channel.

A good introduction on Prynne

Rich In Vitamin C

Under her brow the snowy wing-case
delivers truly the surprise
of days which slide under sunlight
past loose glass in the door
into the reflection of honour spread
through the incomplete, the trusted. So
darkly the stain skips as a livery
of your pause like an apple pip,
the baltic loved one who sleeps.

Or as syrup in a cloud, down below in
the cup, you excuse each folded
cry of the finch's wit, this flush
scattered over our slant of the
day rocked in water, you say
this much. A waver of attention at
the surface, shews the arch there and
the purpose we really cut;
an ounce down by the water, which

in cross-fire from injustice too large
to hold he lets slither
from starry fingers
noting the herbal jolt of cordite
and its echo: is this our screen, on some
street we hardly guessed could mark
an idea bredz to idiocy by the clear
sight-lines ahead. You come in
by the same door, you carry

what cannot be left for its own
sweet shimmer of reason, its false blood;
the same tint I hear with the pulse it touches
and will not melt. Such shading
of the rose to its stock tips the bolt
from the sky, rising in its effect of what
motto we call peace talks. And yes the
quiet turn of your page is the day
tilting so, faded in the light.
 
 
Loomis
06:47 / 01.04.03
I'm with you there Kit-Cat. I dragged myself to the end of The Anathemata and hated it. Although In Parenthesis is not bad, but then again it's almost prose really, except for one bit. And I also second Bunting. He's very cool. Kind of Pound-lite in some ways, and he even looked like him.

What's Speech! Speech! like? I've read Mercian Hymns which didn't particularly grab me, and I'm pretty sure I've read some of his other stuff but can't remember. I have a nagging feeling that I've perused his collected poems but I'd need to have a look at it to know and all my books are many wet miles away.
 
  
Add Your Reply