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Ken Wilber and Yasuhiko Kimura

 
 
paw
13:34 / 30.03.03
In another thread on r.a.w these writers were discussed as being the intellectual big brothers of wilsons work. Since i know little about either person, What book do you recommend from these two writers?
 
 
Simplist
23:03 / 31.03.03
I'd recommend pretty much any of Wilber's post-1995 work. The earlier stuff is worthwhile too, but 1995 was when he published his monster tome "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality", which laid out the theoretical framework within which all of his subsequent (and IMO most significant) work has operated. The best intro to his thinking is probably "A Brief History of Everything" (sort of a Cliff's Notes version of the afformentioned SES). For Kimura, try "Think Kosmically, Act Globally" (an easier recommendation, as Kimura doesn't have much in print to choose from as of yet).
 
 
Tamayyurt
03:07 / 03.04.03
Weird, I was just gonna start a thread about this, thanks sean.
 
 
illmatic
16:51 / 03.04.03
Can anyone give a brief description of where either of these guys are coming from? I know zip about 'em and would like a bluffers guide

I have a huge and teetering pile of unread books. Is their any reason why they should I should go out any buy em and jump 'em to the top?
 
 
Aertho
17:59 / 03.04.03
unified theory

Wilbur gives a very cognizant view of the links between society and the individual. It's like a primer, really. It may not have the statistical and example juice that a lot of people may expect in a text of this title, but he presents the mechanism for which all things operate, allowing the reader to interpret -all things, all problems, all choices- into that machine and see how they work on a fluctuating scale.

Maybe I'm giving it too much credit, but I NEEDED a unification theory. These past three years have been HIGHLY transforming for me personally - I've read The Invisibles, Promethea, a compendium to William Blake, and Technopoly by Niel Postman. If I wasn't second brain then, I am now.
 
 
Simplist
23:26 / 03.04.03
Chesed is correct. Wilber certainly does present a "grand unified theory" (though these days he's calling it an "Integral Operating System"). When I suggested he was considerably advanced compared to RAW, I was thinking specifically of RAW's psychospiritual material, such as that presented in Prometheus Rising or Quantum Psychology. RAW's model fits into a corner (literally--you'll see what I mean if you read Wilber) of Wilber's much more expansive and inclusive model. And even within that corner Wilber's draws considerably finer distinctions, discriminates more clearly, etc., particularly in his delineation of the transpersonal developmental stages (RAW's "extraterrestrial circuits/systems"). RAW said in PR that he expected his model to be replaced by a better one before too long; reading A Brief History of Everything back in 1998, I thought to myself, "here that better one is". Chesed is also correct that this particular book is light on examples, references, etc. But Wilber actually lays all of that out in overwhelming detail in other books should you feel like pursuing it after reading Brief History (voluminous endnotes and references make up about a third of the average Wilber book). Brief History, though, remains the most concise presentation of Wilber's overall model in a single book.

As for Kimura, having already gone on about Wilber for twenty minutes of my employer's time I'll just point you to an interview.
 
 
paw
23:59 / 03.04.03
the article you linked sapient mentions spiral dynamics. i've heard of this subject but haven't explored any of the literature. have you read or experimented with these techniques yourself?
 
 
Simplist
17:33 / 04.04.03
I'm familiar with Spiral Dynamics mainly through Wilber's presentation of it in his more recent books--he got into it in the late 90s and now uses SD terminology to describe the values/worldviews developmental line in his own model. I haven't gotten around to reading Beck and Cowan's original SD book, but it's on my list at some point. It's a great analytical tool, particularly in evaluating recent national and world politics. It replaces the "clash of civilizations" narrative with what might instead be formulated as a "clash of vMemes (aka emergent value systems)", which takes place both between and within cultures as individuals and societies make their way up the developmental spiral, and interact with other individuals and societies at different levels of development. My one caveat about SD is that some of its adherents tend to commit that classic confusion between the map and the territory--guess they should've read RAW as teenagers. Wilber's summary of SD is online here.
 
 
vajramukti
17:41 / 04.04.03
I cannot recommend the works of wilber highly enough. In particular, his solution to several postmodernist contradictions helped me iron out several muddled areas of my own thinking and politics, and thus kept me from landing in jail.
 
 
Simplist
17:59 / 04.04.03
One other SD-related tidbit: A while back Grant Morrison mentioned Wilber and SD in an interview (Grant seemed to have read Wilber and assumed SD originated with him). This led some Barbelith denizen or other to speculate in one of the X-men threads that Morrison was using various members of the X-men cast to personify the various SD levels or vMemes. I didn't necessarily agree with that poster's specific conclusions about particular characters (though the most recent NXM storyline did, I think, support the general thesis that Grant is working in Wilberian and SD themes), but I nevertheless sent a link to the post to several SD-fan friends of mine in yet another probably futile attempt to improve the intellectual reputation of comic fans.
 
 
Tamayyurt
02:22 / 08.04.03
Just got "Brief History of Everything" and I love it. Thanks, I can always count on you guys for a good head fuck.
 
 
Tamayyurt
04:04 / 07.05.03
I'm done with the above book and really want to read more. As you mentioned Sex, Ecology, Spirituality is just a bigger version of "History of Everything" so can anyone suggest something else by Mr. Wilber? Or should I go for Think Kosmically Act Globally?
 
 
David Roel
09:52 / 07.05.03
Go to The Eye of Spirit next. Then Marriage of Sense and Soul. After that, tackle Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. Then go through his 70s and 80s books. Grace and Grit and One Taste aren't essential, but are nice for the Wilber fan.
 
 
Marian
10:02 / 07.05.03
But he puts pictures of himself on the cover of his books. Surely any guru so keen on amassing followers and projecting his own personality cult isn't worth all that much?
 
 
Simplist
17:28 / 07.05.03
...can anyone suggest something else by Mr. Wilber?

I'll second DR's recommendation to read Eye of Spirit next. It's basically a collection of shorter pieces in which Wilber applies his model to various topics; be sure to get the 2nd edition, as it's considerably expanded from the 1st. After that, really any of his post-SES books are worthwhile, with the caveat that many of them repeat a lot of what you've already read in Brief History--most of them are book-length expansions of topics given a more cursory presentation in that book, and he tends to spend a lot of time re-presenting his general framework prior to delving into the specific topic at hand, Eye of Spirit being an exception to this trend for the most part (he's recently said he's finished doing that, btw, and subsequent books will assume a basic familiarity with the material). Grace and Grit and One Taste are autobiographical works, the former more personal and the latter more philosophical--as DR said, not essential, but good for the Wilber fan.
 
 
Simplist
17:44 / 07.05.03
But he puts pictures of himself on the cover of his books. Surely any guru so keen on amassing followers and projecting his own personality cult isn't worth all that much?

While KW's definitely not trying to be a "guru" (he's written on the subject), I was a little put off by the pics at first too. Still, that "unholy and self-certain cyborg-mates-with-Mona-Lisa smile" (as a prominent friend of his famously put it) really only appears on two or three of his recent books, and was likely a marketing strategy on his publisher's part more than anything else.
 
 
makeitbleed
16:09 / 24.08.04
A quick thanks to Barbelith. I finished reading BHE last night and was trying to pick my next Wilber book, and everything I need to know was right here already.
 
 
Simplist
16:43 / 06.09.04
Hey makeitbleed, just in case you haven't found it yet, check out Wilber's glam multimedia site, where he hosts interviews with a diverse collection of thinkers, writers, artists, etc. (subscription-based, but free for the first month; poke around the site until you find the coupon):

Integral Naked


Also visit the KW archive at his publisher's website, where can be found a wealth of free material:

wilber.shambhala.com
 
  
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