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Living in a world that isn't ready for your ideas

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01:00 / 14.03.03

I know this post will be torn apart into a million little pieces, some of them not very nice, but I figure there's more hope for getting an overall helpful response here than suicidegirls.com. ::giggle:: Here goes.

You may think this immature or grandisoe, but I'd like to advance the human race. Not in a silly X-Men kind of way, but in a leaving consensus reality (becoming society's definition of "insane") and advancing to the next mental step kind of way.

If you can tell your little acid friends that you're the next step of evolution, there's no reason you can't tell this to the guy in the gas station. I'm sick of people hiding. I'm sick of people pretending, especially my friends. Why is everyone so secretive? I feel like I'm on the verge of some type of breakdown, because every time we're in a public place and I bring up those issues that really matter, everyone gets super uncomfortable and embarssed to be hanging out with me. "Save it for a private conversation," I'm told. I'll feel like screaming.

Not only do I feel alienated from the masses, as I'm sure most of you can relate to, but I feel alienated from "the underground" too. It seems that I know too much, that I come from the future, that I'm operating on a frequency that has made it impossible for me to relate to humanity. Even the people who consider themselves to be "free thinking mutant freaks" are unable to keep up with the way my mind operates. (mania? it's functioning at a faster rate, guys!)

What I'm truly afraid of is traveling to Europe and becoming all guru-spiritual-mature-like, all to come back to Amerika 10 years later and be presented with a bunch of kiddies chanting "we're the new breed."

"I tried to do this years ago!" I'll exclaim. But by then I'll already have moved onto something else, and my passion for creating a counter generation of telepathic time travelers will be a thing of the past.

The Return Of Rothkoid

01:18 / 14.03.03

I'm sick of people pretending, especially my friends. Why is everyone so secretive?
Possibly because it's a bit difficult to advance to the next level if your ass is strapped to a table in Guantanamo Bay. Is the gas station guy going to particularly listen, either?

The bit I don't especially get - the alienation stuff crops up fairly frequently 'round here in varying guises - is the bit where you equate maturation to badness? Maturity doesn't have to mean you are in line with some societal thing - it just means you're getting more a sense of who you are, and where you fit in (or don't). How is that bad? The experiences you have on a trip or whatever may equip you better to deal with stuff, surely?

01:29 / 14.03.03

did you ever see that simpsons episode where they decide that bart's antisocial behaviour must be due to extremely high and as yet unrecognised intelligence?

dunno why, reminded me of that. sorry. ill go now.

01:49 / 14.03.03

I'm with 'Koid on this one. You may not want to be sane, but you'll be no use to yourself or anyone if you can't do sane. Fucksake, even Jesus was a carpenter most of the time.

If you can tell your little acid friends that you're the next step of evolution, there's no reason you can't tell this to the guy in the gas station.

Er, try telling that to Tim Leary. Sorry Rage, but this sounds like a real Messiah trip. It's been tried before. They'll crucify you. And anyway, what use will you be to the human race if you loose the ability to live amongst them and communicate with them? Fine, go to the bughouse if you want, but it will help no one, least of all you.

Before Enlightenment? Chopping wood, fetching water.
After Enlightenment? Chopping wood, fetching water.

- Zen saying.

I don't especially get - the alienation stuff crops up fairly frequently 'round here in varying guises - is the bit where you equate maturation to badness? Maturity doesn't have to mean you are in line with some societal thing...

Might this shed any light on it?:

So I made myself a social pariah for a while, this way I could revert back to the group seperation I'd experienced since grade school. It was a comfort thing.

Rage, are you sure you're not slipping back into that old (?) mind-set when you think like this? Why don't you forget about saving the world for a little while and focus on looking after yourself for once?

03:33 / 14.03.03

...I'd like to advance the human race. Not in a silly X-Men kind of way, but in a leaving consensus reality (becoming society's definition of "insane") and advancing to the next mental step kind of way.

If this is what you value, then I'm more than prepared to discuss this with you. However, I'm going to need definitions/explanations on these three topics:

1) Consensus reality.
2) Society's definition of insane.
3) The next mental step.

Lilly Nowhere Late

05:14 / 14.03.03

Darling, I cannot stop meself from saying, "Relax". Get a massage,
have a holiday, read some Richard Bach books. Keep thinking gradiose,
but act out much smaller. And do remember, sanity is only relative.
I would also have to recommend a nice bit of listening to those
"secrets" and less of trying to convince anyone of anything. It will
be all right.

06:40 / 14.03.03

What I'm truly afraid of is traveling to Europe and becoming all guru-spiritual-mature-like, all to come back to Amerika 10 years later and be presented with a bunch of kiddies chanting "we're the new breed."

Why does this scare you, rage? It's what you want, isn't it? The next evolutionary step? Oh, wait a minute... it scares you because you weren't the one to lead the "bunch of kids" to the next level. A bit selfish, no? They're happy getting to be the new breed with or without you. Why do you feel you have to lead the charge?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:52 / 14.03.03

Bill's right. As is lilly. And various other posters here. Concentrate on your own head. Then let your very existence be part of what helps propel humanity to the next level. (Okay, that's not necessarily what they were saying, but I extrapolated.)

Surely coming back to find your old world transformed would be part of your own progress towards "enlightenment" or whatever?

Back to my first, and more coherent, point- if everyone worked on how they could make themselves better equipped to be part of "the next step", it'd be much more likely to happen.

Okay, so that wasn't too coherent. Sorry.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:54 / 14.03.03

And, on a more facetious note- no way would I want to live in a world that was ready for my ideas. I try to hide them from myself most of the time. They're fucked.

The Return Of Rothkoid

10:07 / 14.03.03

I guess - though I would not want to speak for him, as he'd tear me a new arse - I was thinking of Jack Fear, posting elsewhere on the board. I'm slightly pissed, and can't be arsed to link to it, but he was saying basically that his views on some things had changed because of his fatherhood - because of the life experiences that he's had at this point. Things are in a state of adjustment because of his here and now. And I guess the thing that you have to - well, not accept, but to work with anyway, is that maybe you don't have to be the messiah for the world. Maybe you just have to make a difference to you, or to even just one other person - if you can perhaps get someone to question why they do things, or to explore why things are the way they are, then maybe you've scored a victory against the machine you rage against so much, y'know?

I know you do tend to come across as arrogant and overly self-confident, and full of this knowledge that you want to impart, or think that people are ignoring, and that rubs some people the wrong way, but perhaps if you think about constraining that and going with the flow, with changing a little bit at a time (starting with yourself, maybe?) then maybe you'll get something that's smaller, but something that means more?

But then, I don't know shit. And I'm tanked. But I think you need to let experience do its work. Seriously.

10:08 / 14.03.03

You may think this immature or grandisoe, but I'd like to advance the human race. Not in a silly X-Men kind of way, but in a leaving consensus reality (becoming society's definition of "insane") and advancing to the next mental step kind of way.

Well wouldn't we all, but whatcha gonna do?

What I'm truly afraid of is traveling to Europe and becoming all guru-spiritual-mature-like, all to come back to Amerika 10 years later and be presented with a bunch of kiddies chanting "we're the new breed."

Sounds like fun to me.

(what an immensely unhelpful reply - sorry.)

10:28 / 14.03.03

If you can tell your little acid friends that you're the next step of evolution, there's no reason you can't tell this to the guy in the gas station.

I'm thinking - maybe people can't except new ideas until their old ideas have been seriously undermined?
And also isn't it a bit, um, presumptuous to assume they'll want to except your ideas rather than somebody elses or thinking up their own?
I say develop tactics to make the gas station guy question his assumptions about the world, rather than bombarding him with your assumptions about the world.. if that makes any sense..
Surely the idea's to encourage freedom of thought, rather than universality of thought?

I'm sick of people hiding. I'm sick of people pretending, especially my friends. Why is everyone so secretive? I feel like I'm on the verge of some type of breakdown, because every time we're in a public place and I bring up those issues that really matter, everyone gets super uncomfortable and embarssed to be hanging out with me. "Save it for a private conversation," I'm told. I'll feel like screaming.

Are people really that paranoid over in the states? I can't think of many things I'd hesitate to talk about openly. Maybe you & your friends need to get a bit more (hate this phrase, but can't think of a better one) chilled out? You know - summer's coming and so forth - try lazing around in the sun for a bit like a goddamned hippy and forgetting all the terrifying, head-bursting horror of government power, world politics and public ignorance for a few miutes?

The Return Of Rothkoid

10:30 / 14.03.03

Word.

10:55 / 14.03.03

When planning advancement to the next evolutionary level - "society's definition of 'insane'" - it may be useful to bear in mind that

a) this is a well, well-trodden path (you're highly unlike to say or do anything your psychiatrist(s) hasn't seen many times before),

and

b) choosing to define yourself and your life in terms of psychiatric labelling is unlikely to benefit anyone, least of all yourself.

If there's a choice involved here, might I suggest moving away from the whole 'sane/insane' issue and the "little acid friends", and instead concentrating on occupying yourself in some way that brings you into daily contact with those alienating "masses". Embrace 'em. Get a job in a gas station, spend time with the gas station guy, try your hand at becoming him.

Before deciding the world's not ready for your ideas, I'd recommend you ensure you've experienced enough of the world's ideas. The masses aren't that bad; hell, you might even want to join us...

11:07 / 14.03.03

I can't speak for the world Rage, but I'm ready. What are these ideas?

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:09 / 14.03.03

...and if I can be flippant for a moment, I can imagine that convincing everyone that they're suddenly insane is gonna put a fuck of a kink in 'Nesh's work schedule...

Ahem. Me say that? Never. But it's true - what G has just said is what I think I was trying to say - don't discount what the world has to show you. It may not be as bad as you believe it is.

11:16 / 14.03.03

Mmmm. Great, glittering ideas are all the better for being informed by as much actual experience of the world as is humanly possible - and I don't think the psychiatric system is the best place to get that experience. When importing your wisdom to the "masses", your credibility will be hugely boosted by having shared our lives.

If you're truly interested in having people listen to what you've got to say, don't go down the 'holy fool' route. They're ten-a-penny and much overrated.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:17 / 14.03.03

... not to mention the fact that deciding that everyone is insufficiently advanced and that you're going to bump them up the evolutionary ladder whether they want to or not is a tad evil.

Matthew Fluxington

11:27 / 14.03.03

I would think that the combination of rampant egomania, limited empathy, and delusions of grandeur would be an alienating thing to most people. I don't think it's the "masses" problem at all.

11:32 / 14.03.03

I read/heard something about people not really living as a community but just parallel stages of seperateness, no one will ever truly get you completely, they will always have a percieved perception of you, a somewhat edited version of what you are really like; the best you can expect is to enjoy others company and for others to enjoy yours, your looking for some kind of mindmeld thingy "your thoughts as mine, my thoughts as yours", but just share your ideas, if they wash over people so what, if they want to listen, well and good.
Of course at the end of the day, everyone feels a little bit off- from society more strongly now and again its natural (ive certainly experienced it)

12:11 / 14.03.03

Where did you read/ hear that, Matter? That's *exactly* the thing that I've been thinking about lately... and it's actually put into words, I really should try that more often.

12:17 / 14.03.03

It's the whole idea that the way to go is for everyone to get together ...see, I think that's wrong somehow...

12:30 / 14.03.03

I can't remember, it stuck with me though. I'd rather bounce off people like molecules when heated.

14:13 / 14.03.03

I really, really think you should stop doing acid—for a while, at least.

Sobriety is a way of killing the Buddha.

14:16 / 14.03.03

I feel like I'm on the verge of some type of breakdown

You'll be fine. You'll recover from the breakdown and your brother will pick you up at the resting house and take you home. Then you'll write the story about the events before your breakdown (but not about *the breakdown itself*). The story is gonna be published, and later that year some dude will gun Britney Spears down and the police will find him reading your story. You so-precious-experience will be entrapped, torn to pieces and rebuilt infinite times, unable to escape the gravitational forcefiled of 16-year olds' mindscape all around the world. Etc.

14:21 / 14.03.03

A slightly-too-old Winona will play you.

15:01 / 14.03.03

Persephone, Matter.etc:
I also have been thinking a bit on this, since December or so. Probably the dark and cold that made the concepts seem so unlovely and frustrating. But anyway, the books that sparked the ideas for me were 'Hangover Square', Patrick Hamilton and 'The Mind's I', Douglas R. Hofstadter and Daniel C. Dennett.
Semi-sorry for threadrot, you never know this go somewhere constructive. I'm kinda happy with my mind as it is. Appreciate the altruistic intent though.

16:02 / 14.03.03

I really dig what Sebastian had to say on how magicians stay out of asylums (third paragraph down or so). I think it might be applicable here.

Basically, if you've got mad synchronicities flying around like bats, ideas that will change the world, et cetera, it IS a good idea to give your wyrd information a go and see if something useful is there, but it is NOT a good idea to overcommit, because the spirits/one's perceptions/whathaveyou WILL occasionally--or frequently--just be fucking around with you, and if you have a fit because you've been led astray you'll be on the road to burning out, and/or being picked up in a van.

Lately I've been realizing that, while I'm very proud of what I've done to myself over the past year, I have to wait until I've known people for a while before I start saying things like, "Personalities don't exist! Reach into your brain and fuck with the wiring until you like how your robot platform is behaving!" That doesn't mean I can't say these things to people; I just have to translate from Mutant to Human. And given that every human speaks a different dialect of Human, this takes time and patience.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:17 / 14.03.03

Distil your ideas down to fifteen easy-to-remember soundbites, write a self-help manual based on these and re-invent yourself as a motivational speaker. It's the only way.

Oh, and what Jack Fear said. Syd Barret called; he thinks you might be overdoing it juuuust a smidge.

22:42 / 14.03.03

Rage- I know exactly what you mean. My solution is to talk about these things to people I feel can take it- sometimes I'm wrong but mostly I meet people who then blow my mind with their ideas, helping advance me to the next level- I call it Ascension.
That's how I came to Barbelith- talking about my mad theories to a stranger. But he wasn't the guy in the gas station, he was someone I intuitively trusted.
P.S. come to Europe- we'll welcome you with open arms!

Andrew C*** passing himself of as Haus

02:20 / 15.03.03

God, you all suck, especially Rothkind.

02:51 / 15.03.03

Haven't dosed in a while.

This post was what you would call pure pure silliness. I was experiencing what it was like to be 17 again. Sometimes I'll travel back in age time. Why not? It's good experimentation.

There was also the idea of showing the young lurkers that not everyone here was a supreme intellectual, and that there were people here going through plenty of stupid shit. Is there anyone here who hasn't gone through stupid shit of a similiar situation?

The stupid shit is still alive! You are not alone, my children!

There was also idea of the "stop hiding" message. Implant. Implant. No, I don't want to take over your mind, (or even force my reality tunnel on you) but I'd love to take you to Funky Town.

Back to being almost 20 now.

03:16 / 15.03.03

"My name is Frankie and I like to alter reality. Where are you from?"

Too fast! Too fast! We didn't even talk about bands yet!

04:12 / 15.03.03

Woo! Here's to being a teenager again!

Maybe this should be a new thread, but since September 2000 I feel like I've gone back to being a 16 year old, from the 22 year old I was then. It continues, but I'm not complaining. I think I'm up to 19 now... ...It's like I'm more alive and can get excited about things like Donnie Darko and the Invisibles for months on end and run around and rant at 1:10am when I should be writing papers. Weee! I'll move up a few years soon, but not yet.

Ranting and raving. Sorry.

04:48 / 15.03.03

Weeeeeeeeee! I feel it! The stupid shit begins to expand. Purple, it turns. Yellow. Flamingo pink! It splashes into glistening sparkles of rainbow sprite lovers! Berries of youth! Fountains of holy waterfalls! Clouds on a party in 2001 smokin weed chillin wit my trip buddies philosophikly debatin new dimensions. Membering the quests and the revelations and the lisetning to Enya alternating with Tool now all Sonic Youth.

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