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Where's my jetpack?

 
 
A
01:59 / 12.03.03
It has already been remarked upon many times that one of the biggest disappointments of life in the 21st century is that we do not all have jetpacks, which we were lead to believe would be the dominant mode of transportation in this century by comics and tv shows and suchlike. Anyway, it occurs to me that, as much as I am taken by the idea of jetpacks, and would gun down my own grandparents in cold blood to get my grubby little hands on one, I have absolutely no idea if they are feasible, if they've actually been made in the past, or anything of the sort.

So, can any of you rocket scientists tell me-

*Are jetpacks a scientifically feasible means of transportation, given current technology?

*Are jetpacks a theoretically safe method of transportation for humans, or would we be burnt to a crisp, or killed by the g-force, or something similar.

*Has anyone ever built a working prototype of a jetpack?

*Can someone make me one? (It's my birthday soon)
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:28 / 12.03.03
I saw a special on jetpacks. as i recall they have a few working ones out there but they have major limitations. they allow you to hover only so many feet above ground, and they can't hold enough fuel to last more than 20 minutes or so. You can use one but the company charges a huge price for the ride. Like I said I'm sketchy on the details.

The show is a weekly program hosted by the guy who was the drill sgt in "Full Metal Jacket". He goes over military stuff.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:32 / 12.03.03
Jetpacks use hydrogen peroxide monopropellant, normally 70% to 85%
concentration, with silver-mesh catalyst to decompose the
peroxide. These things have flight durations in the
range of 30 - 45 seconds. The same technology is used in "rocket powered"
stunt racecars.

>And has anyone developed this technology any further ?

I do recall a magazine article about this in the last year, possibly in
the rather nice magazine "Invention and Technology" which crosses
my desk occasionally.

The jetpack business has been essentially a one-man effort since
its inception post-WWII, although the one man has changed a few
times. If I recall, there have been 3 or 4 versions of the jetpack,
none produced in any quantity. The military was briefly interested,
but the short flight time and range, plus the fact that a flying
soldier is *such* a tempting target, made them give it up.

In principle, the flight time could be extended to about 2 minutes
by using bipropellant (300 seconds Isp vs. ~100 seconds Isp) such
as kerosene and peroxide, but the exhaust would be much hotter
and the risks associated with accidents increased. The flight time
could be raised even farther if a true air-breathing jet, rather
than a rocket, were used, but the cost would be much higher and
there might be serious controllability problems (turbojets aren't
noted for quick throttle response...). If you're going that far, you
can do better still by using a large-diameter propeller, and adding
a frame with landing gear -- and you've reinvented the small helicopter...
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:33 / 12.03.03
The previous post was word for word from this

placehttp://yarchive.net/space/rocket/jetpack.html
 
 
deja_vroom
13:07 / 12.03.03
A guy with a jetpack was hired to spice things up in Rio's Carnaval parade a couple of years ago...
I'm too lazy to try and find more URLS, but this one has a pic of him. They spent 10.000 dollars for, like, 3 minutes of usage. He would go up, float for a while and gently descend, then would start all over again. I haven't seen footage, unfortunately. It must have rocked. So surreal it hurts...
 
 
deja_vroom
13:10 / 12.03.03
Ok, this page has lots of pictures of the parade. you can see the "astronaut", as he was dubbed, in several of them. Watch out, not completely work-safe due to some pictures of semi-naked people
 
 
grant
14:20 / 12.03.03
Screw jets.

Ducted fans are where it's at.

 
 
Vadrice
14:23 / 12.03.03
There are packs that work off of helicopter tecnology- hoverpacks that are significantly more feesable. Wish I could find the article in the mess of my apartment.

they evolved along with personal one man open air helicopters and are used mostly for crop surveying, as a person flying through a city on a copterpack would be several air flight violations in just about every country.
 
 
Vadrice
14:23 / 12.03.03
wow. go team synchronicity.
 
 
pomegranate
14:37 / 13.03.03
Wow grant, I want to take that thing to work!
Jet packs *sound* so nice but they scare me. Look at how deadly cars can be, but 9 times out of 10 at least yr on the *ground* when stuff goes awry. Not to mention if yr car breaks down, you just hold up traffic, as opposed to crashing to the ground below. Maybe if they came w/parachutes?
 
 
Jack Fear
15:14 / 13.03.03
Not to mention that you'd burn your arse-cheeks off.

There's an article in this month's Outside magazine (print editiononly, alas) that investigates personal flight dveices, including most of those kmentioned above, as well as the "build your own hovercraft powered by vacuum cleaner motors" advertisements that still run in the scouting magazine Boy's Life.
 
 
grant
15:16 / 13.03.03
Oooo - what do they say about *those*???
 
 
Jack Fear
17:42 / 13.03.03
Surprise! They actually work, after a fashion. But much depends upon the power of your motors and the airtightness of your skirting.

They're loud as hell, though—a setup of sufficient oomph to lift a full-grown man produces a farting roar of seismic proportions.

And given that the effective range of motion extends only to the length of your Dad's longest extension cord, well—it's hardly worth it...
 
 
Char Aina
04:03 / 14.03.03
was there not a guy with a jet pack at the LA olympics?

or did i imagine that?
 
 
Saveloy
10:20 / 14.03.03
A friend of mine's brother used to have a vacuum cleaner which hovered. I never saw it, so I don't know how well it worked, but I imagine it must have been much easier to pull across a carpet than the usual wheeled variety. Quite an old thing - 60s or 70s maybe - shaped like a UFO. I've tried to find examples on the web and failed, but I did find this:

hoverboards

Looks groovy.

[aside]
I love Jack's image of someone using the noisiest vehicle in the world to move around their living room (and at tiny speeds, as I imagine it). What is it about the combination of massively inefficient technology and humble goals that is so funny?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:54 / 14.03.03
It's even better than that, Saveloy—the "hovercraft," as built, allows you to float an inch above the ground, but doesn't actually propel you anywhere: to make it move, you have to have a friend push you, or rig up some sort of fan/exhaust system to provide horizontal thrust as well as vertical lift, like those weird swamp boats they use in the Everglades, with the big fans on the back...



But of course the added weight of the propellant fan would make the contraption unworkable...
 
 
grant
14:29 / 14.03.03
Airboats.

Many modern hovercraft designs work on that principle:



(See more, unlinkable images at: www.hovercraft.com)

The idea is to be as frictionless as possible, so you don't need much forward thrust to get moving.

Some of the coolest hovering technology, though, involves using ducted fans, as mentioned earlier. With ducts (or louvers, or movable vents), you get one engine blowing backwards and downwards at the same time:



(That's a Moller SkyCar, a personal Vertical Take-Off and Landing craft.)

The military VTOL Ospreys didn't work so well because they used regular big-assed engines on swivels:


Harrier jumpjets use "vectored thrust" (louvers or ducts on the jet exhaust):






There are hovercrafts that do the same thing, but all the fun happens under the skirt, so you can't really tell.

There's more about ducted fan physics here, at the 4wings Hovercraft company.
Nothing about vacuum cleaner engines, but some great Texas home engineering talk: "I think it depends on what you want to use it for. If you want to unload at the lake cruise around, look good, fish and pull a skier get a water plow. If you want to fly into the water without a boat ramp, park on islands/sandbars, run on ice, drive up and down rivers, run rapids or get to that fishing/scenic spot that a boat just can't navigate a hover could be your choice."
 
 
Jack Fear
14:40 / 14.03.03
Those animations rock.
 
 
Saveloy
14:46 / 14.03.03
Jack Fear:
"to make it move, you have to have a friend push you"

Ha, yes, of course! Ideally you'd employ a live-in porter in brown overalls to do the pushing. He'd sit in a little hut in the corner of the room all the time you weren't wanting to go anywhere.


How about this, though - the British version of the swamp car?

 
 
grant
17:25 / 14.03.03
Screw ducted fans - I want THAT.
 
 
A
02:14 / 15.03.03
Does that swampcar have a cannon on the front?
 
 
Saveloy
10:58 / 17.03.03
[massively off topic, but of interest to fans of "mad ways of getting about (and blowing things up)", I hope]

I'm afraid it is a cannon. That vehicle is from the Tanks! website, which aims to give piccies and info for just about every tank that was ever built or tested up to 1946.

If you like the - ahem - swamp car, I suggest you check out the site, select a country using one of the flag icons on the left of the main page and click on 'Other Vehicles' (I'd put links here but it's all frame based). Britain and France have some particularly good selections, including an armoured road locomotive.

Then there's "Japanese: Experimental":

 
 
Cloned Christ on a HoverDonkey
14:25 / 23.03.03
grant - that Moller Skycar is the most amazing item I've ever seen. And it's only £324000 !! Time to check my piggy bank, methinks.

BTW - if anyone wants to buy one, they're available here.

Carrying four passengers, they'll fly to 29,000 feet, with a cruising speed of 380mph, giving you 28 miles per gallon fuel economy. Not bad.
 
 
Jetman
15:41 / 03.04.04
Acually scientifically viable. Take my word for it. If you want acual proof, here are some links to places that show its possible:

http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/2002/02/26/Science/Learning.To.Fly.jetpack.On.The.Way-191405.shtml

www.futurehorizans.net/jetpack.html
 
 
Quantum
21:41 / 21.10.06
Look! A working compressed air controllable jetpack!

I had to watch it twice.

Water jetpacks not so controllable it seems.
 
  
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