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Anti-Anti-Semitism.

  
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:51 / 10.03.03
Was looking at this Ha-aretz website cataloguing various Anti-Semitic acts in Europe. It is obviously a genuine matter that should concern anyone with a moral fibre in their body.

But I am a bit concerned in a different way when the article is introduced thus;

The left-liberal media are scathing in their criticism of Israel. Spokesman for Britain's two million-strong Muslim community are virulent in their attacks on the Jewish state and on its supporters. London's chattering classes are reportedly making uninhibitedly anti-Semitic remarks at dinner parties.

Now, ignoring the last sentence as hearsay (probably quite true, but in this case hearsay none the less), there's nothing actually wrong in our free society with the first two is there? And it seems rather dishonest to use this to preface a list of hate attacks, synagogue burnings and reports on anti-Israel media and the like, as though they are all the same thing, as though someone criticising Israel is as bad as a gang of skinheads attacking a place of worship.

Isn't this just the teeniest bit dishonest? And, contentiously, isn't this not that disimilar to the intellectual tactics of Anti-Semites?
 
 
Linus Dunce
20:56 / 10.03.03
If you were to convince yourself that any criticism of Israeli government action is of itself anti-semitic, then you could write stuff like this too. And, of course, the "chattering classes" is a right-wing construct, so that "fact" is worth even less than hearsay.

If you really want to see some hair-raising stuff about Europeans though, you should mosey on over to Little Green Footballs. They're not really very tolerant of anyone interrupting their Five Minutes' Hate sessions. Critical comments appear fairly thin on the ground and they've just introduced an IP blocking procedure, ostensibly to bar spambots, so I wouldn't bother adding your two cents' worth if you want to keep reading. Some of the comment is valid, I guess, but a lot of it is, e.g., adolescent Photoshopping of news images, which they seem to find hysterical.

That's the trouble with this damn WWIII thing -- as soon as you start to see the wood for the trees, some moron says something so inanely histrionic and patently wrong you lose all faith in the humanity of either side.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:53 / 11.03.03
Part of the problem in this case is that I've no idea where to place Ha-aretz politically. Is it the Israeli Telegraph, Express or Times?
 
 
grant
15:16 / 11.03.03
Just ask Rep. Jim Moran about that.

Here's the deal: ...on March 3, Moran discussed why he thought antiwar sentiment was not more effective in the United States.

"If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this," Moran said in comments first reported by the Reston Connection and not disputed by Moran. "The leaders of the Jewish community are influential enough that they could change the direction of where this is going, and I think they should."

Apparently, the above statement was a direct response to a question from a lady who identified herself as a Jew. But still -- I don't think he's ever going to live this down.

-------

You want to stare into the abyss of anti-anti-semitism, check out HonestReporting.com. Great name, isn't it. See if you can find out who owns it.
 
 
eye landed
08:10 / 12.03.03
Here is another good one.

Taboos like racism and its cousins are the best way to restrict "free" speech this side of paradigm lockout.
 
 
GreenMann
12:39 / 13.03.03
Grant, read this revealing article by neo-conservative by PATRICK BUCHANAN
about Moran and others in this month's 'The American Conservative':

A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.

The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers ... that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so.

Former Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot kicked off the campaign. When these “Buchananites toss around ‘neoconservative’—and cite names like Wolfowitz and Cohen—it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is ‘Jewish conservative.’” Yet Boot readily concedes that a passionate attachment to Israel is a “key tenet of neoconservatism.” He also claims that the National Security Strategy of President Bush “sounds as if it could have come straight out from the pages of Commentary magazine, the neocon bible.” (For the uninitiated, Commentary, the bible in which Boot seeks divine guidance, is the monthly of the American Jewish Committee.)

David Brooks of the Weekly Standard wails that attacks based on the Israel tie have put him through personal hell: “Now I get a steady stream of anti-Semitic screeds in my e-mail, my voicemail and in my mailbox. ... Anti-Semitism is alive and thriving. It’s just that its epicenter is no longer on the Buchananite Right, but on the peace-movement left.”

---------------

(edited: rest of article on link following this post.)
 
 
grant
15:43 / 13.03.03
Is there a way you could trim that and just post a link? It's kinda long for the thread - although I'm enjoying reading it.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:36 / 13.03.03
Link to Buchanan's article.
 
 
grant
19:38 / 13.03.03
Ah. There we go.

This is definitely one of those "strange bedfellows" moments, isn't it.

Need to read more about Jonathan Pollard now.
 
 
Baz Auckland
23:35 / 14.03.03
Just for the record, Jim Moran resigned his post today

Moran stepped down from his position as regional whip at the insistence of Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California. In a statement, Pelosi said she spoke to Moran and he agreed to give up his post. Moran's office said the decision was mutual.

"I have taken this action because Congressman Moran's irresponsible remarks were a serious mistake," Pelosi said. "As I said earlier this week, his comments were not only inappropriate, they were offensive and have no place in the Democratic Party."
 
 
GreenMann
12:38 / 17.03.03
No-one messes with the US Jewish Lobby, as Moran must already know.

I'm just puzzled why he put himself at risk by breaking probably the biggest taboo in US politics, i.e. criticising the Jewish community or Israel. Why did he commit professional suicide? If he is lucky he will get off by simply resigning his post, repenting publicly, accepting being branded an 'anti-semite' being blacklisted for an indefinite period by the Democratic Party and media organisations, and not complaining when he is sent stacks of Zionist hate mail, e-viruses and has his windows kicked in.

His heinous crime was saying that, get ready folks, "if it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq we would not be doing this"...and worse..."the leaders of the Jewish community are influential enough that they could change the direction of where this is going".

It makes you wonder how that evil beast Moran escaped without broken kneecaps! Next thing you know they'll be saying that the US congress is in the pocket of the Jewish Lobby and Israel who, in turn, are behind the war on Iraq!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:57 / 17.03.03
Which would, in fact, be nonsense. I think it's crucial that critics of Israeli and US policies don't fall into the trap of anti-semitism if valid criticisms are to hold any credibility, and one way to avoid this is to be aware of in which direction power operates. The USA is the superpower and Israel the client state, not vice versa: it's not a question of a secret cabal of Zionists running the US government, rather that the US is perfectly willing to turn a blind eyes to Zionist excesses where strategic and economic benefits can be reaped.

Don't get me wrong: I deplore the use of knee-jerk accusations of anti-semitism to smear Israel's critics, but the best way to counter this is to ensure that there is no truth in it where our own criticisms are concerned...
 
 
GreenMann
13:14 / 17.03.03
Mmmm...I remain to be convinced either way.

The trouble with conspiracy theories is that they feed off secrecy, and nothing is more secret and such a taboo subject as the influence of the Jewish Lobby and Israel on the US government.

In the US media, even THIS discussion would be enough to get one branded an 'anti-semite'.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:19 / 18.03.03
Doesn't mean you are right though. And the thing about these particular theories is that they are close to the favourite 'secret governers of the world'/'Protocols' arguments so beloved of Fascists everywhere.
 
 
GreenMann
11:09 / 19.03.03
IKnowIBelieveinNothingButItIs My Nothing of the Flowers: "The Protocols of Zion"? Oh give me a break pleeeeease!

I resent your insinuation that I am anti-Semitic and find it deeply offensive. HOW DARE YOU! But, while we are on that subject, I AM anti-racist and anti-anti-Semitic. I am, therefore, opposed to Israeli anti-Semitism against Arabs in general and the ethnic cleansing of 78% of Palestine in particular since 1948 (is that allowed?). As an anti-racist, I am opposed to the openly racist policies of the Israeli state, led Sharon who is openly anti-Semitic ("Arabs are a cancer to be dug out") and a war-criminal (scheduled at the ICC for the Sabre and Shatilla massacres). Racist Israeli policies include the treatment of Israeli Arabs as third class citizens; the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Paletinians to Lebanon, Syria and Jordan; the so-called right to "return" to Israel, the West Bank or Gaza for complete foreigners (if one is Jewish) yet refuse any such right to Palestinians who have lived there for generations.

As for the idea that Israel and the US Jewish Lobby are a powerful influence on the US government - I think that is beyond doubt don't you agree? Or is even that terrible thought an act of anti-Semitism itself? Israeli and Jewish Lobby influence in Washington is kept top secret, but is apparent in numerous US vetoes in the UN over the decades to protect Israel against international criticism against its illegal nuclear arsenal and other weapons of mass destruction; its breach of 69 UN resolutions since 1948; its numerous breaches of the 4th Geneva Convention (re: collective punishment, torture, massacring of innocent women and children and state terrorism); its illegal invasions and occupations of neighbouring countries (most recently Lebanon and Palestine) and other breaches of international law.

As for the speculation that Israel is behind the US war against Iraq, as indicated I remain to be convinced, but, quite frankly, I wouldn't be too suprised. It is plain that Israel would love to see Iraq, a long-standing enemy of Israel, being "made an example of" by the US. Also, surely no-one can doubt that Israel's power in the region would be increased.

Criticism of the government of Israel is not anti-Semitic and is long over-due. If any other country behaved like Israel it would be sanctioned and probably bombed into submission by the international community. Actually...come to think of it...there is such a country! It's called Iraq!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:48 / 19.03.03
Well, surely the influence of the "Jewish lobby" must be pretty easy to get a rough vision of.

First up, how many current members of the executive are Jewish? How many of the upper and lower houses? And how many of those have spoken out against Israeli policy on the Palestinians? Assume that the rest are agitating for support of Israel in its dealings with the Palestinians.

Next up, how about contributors to George Bush's election fund have Jewish CEOs or Chairmen?

Then, how many contributors to the Democratic election coffers?

Then, say, the 500 most powerful corporations in the US - how many of them have Jewish CEOs and/or chairmen who have not spoken out against Israel's flouting of resolution 242?

Then, say, the 500 most individually wealthy men and women in the USA.

Finally, how many Jewish *people* are there in the US? In how many states would the "Jewish vote" be pivotal in elections?

This assumes that any Jewish person who has not spoken out against Israel's attitude to resolution 242, and Israel's more general conduct in the occupied territories, is a member of the "Jewish lobby". With that rather large assumption, we might start to be able to assess the power of this shadowy Zionist lobby.

We could also ask why the US has supported Israel so resolutely *apart* from this shadowy Zionist lobby. Its status as a democracy (seems uncharacteristic). Strategic concerns abiuyt the viability of a 242-compliant Israeli state? The protection of American interests in the Middle East? Because unless we're saying that the "Jewish Lobby" actually has mind-control powers, I'm presuming there has to be some sort of logic to its position...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:00 / 19.03.03
Haus... That's a rather brute-force data analysis which lacks subtlety. If you want to see really interesting ways of checking to see whether political movements have undue influence or hidden or unpleasant agendas, you should adopt the methods of the Anti-Defamation League. That's a group which really knows how to ferret out concealed bias and prejudice.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:09 / 19.03.03
It *is* rather crude, isn't it? The relevant part, I would suggest, is the cui bono at the end. What interests are being served by American foreign policy on Israel? Surely they aren't *just* being perverse?

So, how would the ADL go about this?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:24 / 19.03.03
I feel like Haus tonight, like Haus tonight...

GreenMann: Deep breaths. I wasn't saying you were anti-Semitic, I was just advising caution as it's a hop, skip and a jump from your reasonable position to the unreasonable position of a fascist. Otherwise I mostly agree with what you say, that criticism of Israel isn't inherently anti-Semitic.
 
 
GreenMann
08:54 / 20.03.03
IKnowIBelieveinNothingButItIs My Nothing of the Flowers: thanx for your comments, i guess i got out the wrong side of the bed that morning...i've put the gun away now.
 
 
bjacques
10:07 / 20.03.03
Moran should have named names and actions, or given a short reference. The AIPAC (America-Israel Political Action Committee) is indeed a powerful lobby, but there are other lobbies, like the NRA, the insurance lobby, American Association of Retired Persons or the Cuban-American National Foundation (or its successor). On the media front there are magazines like "Israel all the way" Commentary. Their danger is mainly that the Bush administration is too eager to take their counsel, tough not all of it's in the U.S.'s interest. Moran should have said something more along those lines. If that's harder to make into a sound bite, Moran should have tried harder. It's a sensitive subject at a sensitive time and requires a sensitive touch. Honorable intentions or no, he paid the same price as Trent Lott.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:16 / 20.03.03
Here's something worth considering with regards to the relationship between the USA and Israel, from a BBC news story: US gives Israel $10 billion in aid - $1bn direct military aid and $9bn loan guarantees. The *really* interesting bit is this: the package... is part of President George W Bush's war budget". Makes you think...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:20 / 21.03.03
Interesting. I think that page may have been changed since you linked to it Flyboy, now the Israeli's are saying the US have agreed to give them the cash and the US are acting coy and saying nothing has been agreed.
 
  
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