BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Does anyone else watch British medical dramas?

 
 
that
16:45 / 09.03.03
I love 'em. Holby City especially, but Casualty and even Doctors, I watch consistently. There was a flurry of excitement in Casualty this week when Ben shoved his boyfriend Tony off a wall, after Tony had punched him for cheating with an old flame. But I don't know anyone else who likes British medical dramas, and thus no one will ooh and ahh over this implications of this with me. So I am posting here. Surely someone, somewhere, watches this stuff?
 
 
Ganesh
18:16 / 09.03.03
No, I don't. To anyone who's ever experienced the NHS from the inside, they all (to a greater or lesser degree) peddle deeply irritating myths of reassurance which, ultimately, erode any attempts to establish an honest dialogue (on the subject of what is and isn't reasonable expectation) between the medical establishment and the Great British Public. The fact that these varying fictions are much, much more palatable than the real version make it near-impossible, politically speaking, to talk openly about the latter.

I will concede that the UK fictions aren't as malignant as their US counterparts ('ER' I see as particularly harmful). 'Cardiac Arrest', several years ago now, is the sole exception - a refreshing attempt at unvarnished, truthful medical drama. Predictably, it only ran the one series...

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant - and it's slightly unfair of me to hijack Cholister's thread. If you're at all interested in why the subject pisses me off so much, you could do worse than read Jed Mercurio's excellent 'Bodies'...
 
 
that
20:33 / 09.03.03
Yeah, it was, wasn't it. Actually, I think they're pretty gritty. And I can't remember ever having felt reassured by any British medical drama - they'd be fucking depressing if it weren't so clear, a la Eastenders, that they're meant to be depressing. There are good people in the NHS, and there are some complete fucking arseholes who are completely in the wrong job - it's like that with any profession - teaching, especially - and all over the real world - much the same as in tv dramas of any kind, to a greater or lesser degree (from the petty evils and fuck-ups of the medical dramatis personae or the son of Satan stylings of the American soaps). I can understand why you'd have such an intense dislike of British medical dramas, but I have no qualms about not sharing it.
 
 
Ganesh
22:09 / 09.03.03
They're depressing in the wrong way, for the wrong reasons. Their "grittiness" is in all the wrong places. Apart from 'Cardiac Arrest' (which, when it came out, was greeted by every junior doctor as a breath of fresh, reality-scented air), they persistently push certain misconceptions about the medical establishment which have, over the years, partially trapped us in a shared fiction in which we (and I'm specifically including doctors and nurses) collude. They're good soapy entertainment, but problematic in that they really do inform people's idea of what does/should go on within the NHS.

Apologies for the bitter tone, Cholister; I've had a weekend of 'Medicine & the Media' seminars which have consolidated my own long-standing dislike of medical drama (stoked by a number of unpleasant experiences) and left me feeling rather bleak. This is probably Headshop stuff, though - I'll take by bile-spewing over there, I think.

Do read the Mercurio book, though. It has its faults but, all things considered, it's pretty much the most truthful account of the NHS I've ever read...
 
 
that
07:35 / 10.03.03
Fair enough. And I don't mind the thread 'hijack' - feel free to carry on talking 'bout it here - the tv forum doesn't need to be dumbed down, I think.
 
 
Char Aina
03:36 / 14.03.03
they persistently push certain misconceptions about the medical establishment which have, over the years, partially trapped us in a shared fiction in which we (and I'm specifically including doctors and nurses) collude.


like what?
you have succesfully piqued my curiosity...

i was trying to think of someobvoious ones, buthave cometo the conclusion that there are no obvious ones.

please, elaborate if you can be arsed.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:57 / 14.03.03
not wishing to speak for the elephant-headed one but i'll have a go.

And chol, I watch doctors, but then I view it as a soap, pure and simple, and on about the same level of realism as Sunset Beach... And ER, which again I view as a glossy soap. And love, on that basis...

This may come from having a ludicrously medic-heavy family, so having grown up with Tales from The Wards...

Myths: that doctors and nurses are somehow morally superior and 'heroic'. This is not to denigrate the professions, but to believe this denies the fact that it's a *job*. And like everyone else, they have days when they hate everyone they work on/with, where attention wanders to the club they're going to later, what they're going to have for dinner etc....

That medical staff are angels (see especially nurses) and so can't be miserable, bastard, unpleasant peoplea. When was the last time you saw a doctor behaving amorally on a Medical drama? Or even being a bit shite? Medics apparently have different moral codes to the rets of us...

That working in the medical field is always a vocation/calling and so conditions/pay are irrelevant. Are they irrelevant in your job?

That it's all life-changing decisions/life on the edge. There's *alot* of routine, dull shitwork, hanging around. Like anything else.

The collusion comes because if you add these up, you end up with the conclusion that doctors and nurses are 'better' than other people...
 
 
that
12:17 / 14.03.03
Uh. I completely disagree. Doctors and nurses are always considered as flawed and fucked up as everyone else, if not more so. The last time i saw a doctor behaving immorally on a medical drama was last time I watched a medical drama - take a peek at Alex Adams on Holby. I have to wonder when you all last watched any medical drama (and yes, Doctors is a soap, but it too has its fair share of drug addictions, alcoholism, infidelity, blah blah fiskcakes). And, a few examples - in Holby City currently, Sandy the nurse is nicking stuff off patients to pay her bastard ex boyfriend the money she owes him. Ben nearly killed his boyfriend Tony. And it's not just recent - doctors and nurses have been seen as flawed, often very flawed human beings throughout the course of BMD's history. As have the patients on these shows.
 
 
that
12:24 / 14.03.03
There is enough routine in these shows - and most of the drama comes not from medical events, but from human interest, and that's what makes a drama a drama (newsflash: teachers don't all smoke dope behind the bike sheds either). And maybe not enough attention gets paid to the shitty pay and conditions, but virtually everyone in medical dramas is miserable, amoral or both. Another example: Mubbs Hussein who cheated on his g/f with another nurse and was caught on hospital security tape doing so. Or the current euthanasia drama in Holby City.
 
 
Ganesh
13:07 / 14.03.03
Yes, you've covered a lot of it there, Bengali. The 'heroism/vocation' thing is particularly annoying (seeming, as it does, to coexist with the flipside belief that 'good doctors don't make mistakes'), and really does appear to permeate into the more general consciousness. Two incidents stick in my mind:

The first was during my experience as a House Officer, the one-year rude awakening in which one realises that 90% of what one learned in medical school is of negligible use when faced with the everyday horrors of physical illness (much of which we can, realistically, do almost nothing about) and death. Within the first few weeks, I realised that everything I thought I knew about being a junior doctor was wrong. I knew the hours were long, I knew I'd feel stressed, I knew the system would demand much more than I was able to provide. What I didn't expect was that I'd feel so shit, physically and mentally, about the whole thing. I quickly began to resent the system that literally consumed me, used me as a resource; I resented the many, many stupid, unfair, illogical rituals we've elaborated around physical morbidity (the need to heroically 'save lives' - or be seen to be saving lives - at all costs; the increasing legal need to resuscitate everyone; the expectation that one must give 100% of oneself 100% of the time because to draw boundaries, to insist "it's a job" is to be a Bad Doctor; the absolute inability - on the part of all and sundry - to accept that doctors make mistakes).

Anyway, my every spare evening was spent catching up with sleep; my social life dwindled to nil. Eventually my mother, concerned that I'd been out of contact for several weeks, came to see me at the doctors' residence. I was knackered, my acne had re-erupted, I constantly ran colds (hospital air-conditioning) - and I told her why I hadn't called her. She got a little weepy but smiled and said she was incredibly proud of me, she was proud of my 'heroism', my self-sacrifice.

I'm sure she meant well, but that made me feel angrier than ever, made me feel that she didn't understand at all. It wasn't heroism, it wasn't self-sacrifice; it wasn't anything good or positive. I didn't want to be a hero or a martyr. I wanted sleep, I wanted to be treated like a normal human being. I felt trapped within a stupid, rotten, dishonest system which brutalised people too naive to know any better, consumed our idealism.

My mother couldn't see any of this. She'd swallowed the myths of self-sacrifice; she thought it was a good thing. Her attitude made me aware, more than ever, of the experiential gulf that exists between those who know the medical world from the inside and those who don't.

The second experience occurred later in my medical career, when the Year of Hell was suitably distant, and I'd accepted that, while I still occasionally hated the job, I was now far enough along the path that I was stuck with it. I'd make the best of the situation, enjoy the pleasurable aspects, deal with the shitty ones. Late for my out-patient clinic, I reversed into a parking space and over a woman's toe. I jumped out, apologised profusely and offered to drive her anywhere. To Accident & Emergency? No, she insisted, she was fine; she was certain nothing was broken, she was in a hurry. She scurried off.

Well, at some point, she must've taken my registration number and got my details, because a letter arrived a week or two later, addressing me as 'Doctor' (I can't honestly remember if I told her I was a doctor or if she found it out herself). A few hours after seeing me, her foot had swollen, making walking painful. She'd eventually gone to A&E: nothing was broken, but she'd needed analgesics and a surgical tubi-grip. In her letter, she maintained that I was responsible for her pain/suffering as well as ruining a pair of her shoes, and she wanted £200. Fair enough, I thought, it was my fault - but what pissed me off more was the explicit criticism that, because I was a doctor (albeit a 'head' rather than a 'foot doctor') I should've recognised that she was too anxious to talk to me at the time and insisted that she go, there and then, to A&E. I should've examined her foot myself. The fact that I'd done neither of these things and had "allowed" her to disappear off was somehow particularly surprising/disappointing/negligent because of my job.

That annoyed me, at least partly because it succeeded in making me feel extremely guilty. I wrote her a cheque for £200, worried about it for weeks, and took months of agonising to decide that, just maybe, I was an ordinary member of the public who'd been involved in an ordinary accident, and had behaved in a perfectly ordinary way. The fact that I'm a doctor did not necessarily mean that, morally, I was always obliged to 'go the extra mile'. There were times when I was - and am - off-duty.

These anecdotes are rambling and (still rather) embittered - but demonstrate, I hope, the enduring myth of moral heroism, of sacrifice. I guess there's nothing to say that either my mother or the toe-lady believed the myth specifically as a result of TV medical dramas, but I see those same assumptions running through (almost) every such programme I've ever seen.
 
 
Ganesh
13:10 / 14.03.03
I don't think medical dramas give anywhere near idea of quite how soul-crushingly awful the whole (secret inner) medical system can be, how inadequate it is at bridging the gulf between (media-stoked) expectation and hard, unfair reality.
 
 
that
14:48 / 14.03.03
Doutless you are correct that tv medical dramas are never quite bad enough (but they'd certainly put me off ever joining the NHS if I'd ever had any inclination to do so. Other things, like seeing an A&E doctor so tired and flu-ey that he could barely talk when he treated me, have also helped). I can't, ever, see BMDs in the same light as you and b.i.p. see them...and although I'm pretty certain that my own occasional dissatisfaction with the medical personnel who have dealt with me is not in any way informed by medical dramas. But I guess these things can be insidious.
 
 
Ganesh
15:20 / 14.03.03
I think they are insidious - and I think doctors, particularly very inexperienced junior ones, find themselves falling into certain behaviours in certain situations (breaking bad news to relatives, for example, or attempting a resuscitation) because that's how they've seen those situations portrayed and feel a (conscious or unconscious) need to live up to the image. I think it's probably fair to say also that many of us entered the profession at least partly because we were impressed, at any early age, by that hero/martyr stereotype - whether Dr Kildare, Dr Finlay or Dr Greene - and liked the idea of striding around the wards, white coat blowing in the notional wind, Saving Lives.

I reckon the accumulated medical myths (including 'competent doctors don't make mistakes', 'nurses are angels', 'where there's life there's hope', 'we'll do everything in our power', etc., etc.) have built up over the years with successive archetypes and have, via various feedback mechanisms, influenced and been manipulated by the policy-makers, who act to preserve or challenge those myths as it suits their purposes. NHS staff's perceived 'vocational' motivations, for example, make them popular with the public - as long as they don't start demanding anything mundane and grubby, like a pay rise. A doctor who makes a mistake - any mistake - is automatically a source of alarm, and must be suspended (because surely it's the individual at fault rather than the system's in which he/she operates) pending (lengthy) investigation. High-profile mistakes - or simple accidents - dictate policy more readily than evidence-based planning. Changes likely to take more than five years or so (an average Parliamentary term) to implement are avoided in favour of quick-fix promises that we'll work harder, increase efficiency, be more user-friendly, do more for everyone. No-one will die without a drip in their arm and defibrillator pads on their chest, guaranteed.

I've previously ranted at length about 'ER', which I consider to be the worst offender. I honestly find it difficult to appreciate any medical drama on a 'purely soap' level because they press so many buttons for me. Perhaps teachers feel the same about 'Teachers'; I'm not sure.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:19 / 14.03.03
Wow nesh. You've never, ah, explained, quite as clearly before...

Re Teachers. All the teachers I know loathed it. Said any teacher who behaved like most of the characters, especially Andrew Lincoln's, would have been sacked within weeks.

And perhaps this is relevant to the medical dramas thing... they said even the angst/cynicism wasn't realistic, it was much wittier, more passionate, and much less dull, draining, tired, feeble... The wrongdoing of doctors is dramatic, urgent, 'bad' in a way I don't think is very common...

And again, while they don't make realistic fuck-ups they *do* seem to get away with murder (theft, drug habits etc) in a way that just doesn't pass muster. And they're forever entering into dubious relationships with patients which just wouldn't be workable.

Have seen several friends through their NQT years, they're too exhausted to go down the pub and rant, and like Ganesh says, they lose all their social life for a couple of years until they can stay awake past 8pm... it's very dull, and dispiriting. and you don't see any of this... Most of them, passionate as anything, questioned everything about themselves during this period, let alone questioning their vocations...

(I love Teachers, but that's only because it was *very* slashy for a while)

Nesh - not on a realistic tip so much but what do you think of things like M*A*S*H, Scrubs etc...

Sorry if this is off topic...

Mind you, wonder if anyone's happy with how their profession's portrayed?
 
 
Char Aina
23:21 / 14.03.03
i see.




do you think the operception has dictated teh shows, or vice versa, though?

and do you think that its the same altering of reality we see in american war films like U-571(or sumfin) and saving private ryan? the 'people wont lap it up unless we make it more dramtic/heroic/relatable' attitude?
 
  
Add Your Reply