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ideology poll...

 
  

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The Monkey
15:04 / 24.01.02
Built a new fictionsuit entirely for the purposes of tweaking intellectual noses and cutting steaks from sacred cows, while trying to avoid the make-it-personal, flame-war route--thus hopefully producing some more multi-dimensional debate.
The question is, then, what tails do I yank on? What do you believe, what do you think? Politics, religion, magick, art, specific issues...I wanna try and get a gestalt for the board, then try and research and put up a decent intellectual counter-position. Fight back or play along...my meatself is inflammable and its ideology inscrutable.
Of course, if I end up with only a tete-a-tete with The Knowledge, this ficsuit with commit seppuku and even write a pukka death haiku.
Your call, folks. Play or not.

Love and kisses from the Outer Church,
[smack!]
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
15:08 / 24.01.02
I'm pro-family and anti-drugs.

[ 24-01-2002: Message edited by: The Haus of Rain ]
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:39 / 24.01.02
I frequently enjoy the use of drugs, legal or otherwise, and have on numerous occasions attempted to murder various family members (mostly the smoky mountain redneck half).

That said, ideologies suck, and you'll never catch me admitting that I suscribe to one. I do currently think, though, that one can't help but move closer to the Tao no matter which direction you take (in the desert, all the directions are the same. Let's hear it for Zen-sunni sound-bites!). I don't think that qualifies as an ideology. Also, it's kinda hard to debate anything to do with Zen other than who really wrote the Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch and the like, so I'll step out of this one for now. I'll be watching, though.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:44 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by [devil's advocate]:
Fight back or play along...my meatself is inflammable and its ideology inscrutable.
Of course, if I end up with only a tete-a-tete with The Knowledge, this ficsuit with commit seppuku and even write a pukka death haiku.
Your call, folks. Play or not.



By the way, you might get more action by throwing the first punch, so to speak.
 
 
Darryl Strawberry
15:48 / 24.01.02
I believe in Market Forces, the American Way, and Truth and Justice for all.
 
 
Rage
16:15 / 24.01.02
I believe in everything counter culture. Revolution!
 
 
Darryl Strawberry
16:18 / 24.01.02
Son, the only counter culture you should be interested in is the culture behind the counter at McDonald's. Get a damn job!

And yes, I would like fries with that.
 
 
Sleeperservice
16:20 / 24.01.02
I don't believe.
 
 
Rage
16:24 / 24.01.02
Rush Elmo Durden Fictionsuit Whatfuckingever?
 
 
cusm
16:32 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by [devil's advocate]:
my meatself is inflammable and its ideology inscrutable.


Aw, what fun is that then?

What's your ideology that's so incrutable, eh?
 
 
Darryl Strawberry
16:45 / 24.01.02
quote:Originally posted by cusm:


Aw, what fun is that then?

What's your ideology that's so incrutable, eh?


I think that means he's Oriental.
 
 
SMS
20:51 / 24.01.02
Love is my goal. Not love from others to me, but love from me to others. Ultimately, to everyone.

I believe one of the greatest values of family is that you don't get to choose them, and problems are harder to ignore.

I'm a reductionist and apparently a logical positivist (this is according to one of my profs).

I believe it is important for some number of people to have radical political and moral views that are, in fact, wrong or misguided.

I believe sacrifice is a good thing, but for different reasons than the fascist.

Crazy religious cults have a lot to teach us about ourselves, and some of it is quite useful.

I believe in the inherent goodness of all people. Which means that all those evils of the world. None of us are above them.

Punishment is an outdated and barbaric concept. We need to find an alternative (I don't have one)

I assume arguments about topics mentioned here are supposed to go in another thread, right?

[ 22-12-2012: Message edited by: SMatthewStolte]

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: SMatthewStolte ]
 
 
Thjatsi
14:55 / 25.01.02
Transhumanist.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:38 / 26.01.02
Which Transhumanist? Max Moore stylee? And if so, pre- or post- the sudden vanishing of just about all the females involved in Extropia?

Or that scary robot bloke with his copy-is-identity notions of immortality?

Or... what?

I believe in ecological detergent, sex after marriage, the joy of victory and graceful defeat, puns, cinammon flavoured fluids and Emma Caulfield's talents as a Scrabble player.

I believe in individual decisions as the vital force in remaking the world, the fundamental value of life itself in all its forms, and the gorgeous ecstasy of well-executed sexual torture.

I belive in cockup, snafu, conspiracy and good intentions, abstract systems and the blindness of Frankenstein, the blithe and tacit assumption at Watergate, the madness of kings and men in smoke-filled rooms.

I believe that belief is error, that marxism, psychoanalysis and the 'postmodern era' are the three great confidence tricks of the last hundred years, and in the sacredness of love.

Is that enough to be going on with?
 
 
—| x |—
09:38 / 26.01.02
I'm pro<-->anti and family drugs...

modulo
 
 
Persephone
23:34 / 26.01.02
Well okay [infinite monkeys], but wouldn’t it be more rewarding for you to lay out your genuine articles of faith and stand by them and haggle?

quote:Originally posted by SMatthewStolte:
Love is my goal. Not love from others to me, but love from me to others. Ultimately, to everyone.


Oh ya, my dad gave me one of those. Looks nice, doesn’t work. Does yours?

quote:I believe one of the greatest values of family is that you don't get to choose them, and problems are harder to ignore.

I’ve got one similar to that. Mine goes: The thing about family is, they could be just any other people except that they’re not.

quote: I believe it is important for some number of people to have radical political and moral views that are, in fact, wrong or misguided.

I’ve got that exact one, too.

quote:Originally posted by Nick:
I believe in individual decisions as the vital force in remaking the world, the fundamental value of life itself in all its forms, and the gorgeous ecstasy of well-executed sexual torture.


And I’ll take those first two, please.

Here’s what I have today:

I believe in composting and kitchen gardens, and in lighting two candles when I chop onions, and in saving leftover chicken parts in a bag in the freezer to make homemade stock later on.

I believe in sunlight during daytime and firelight for night, and I imagine that Hell is windowless with fluorescent lighting.

I believe in time management. I believe that the Myers-Briggs inventory can be a useful tool for understanding personalities.

I believe that when you hear sentences in your head you should write them down--even though they sound like Kevin’s Costner’s speech in Bull Durham, which I thought was sexy at the time anyway--and when you don’t hear them you should go do something else.

I believe that belief can be open to interrogation and the possibility of error, and if it isn’t it should be called something else. I believe in saying “I don’t know.”

I believe that all words contain their opposites; but that you have to keep in the back of your mind and not the front, or else you’d get nothing said or done.
 
 
SMS
01:46 / 27.01.02
quote:Me:
Love is my goal. Not love from others to me, but love from me to others. Ultimately, to everyone.

quote:Originally posted by Persephone:
Oh ya, my dad gave me one of those. Looks nice, doesn’t work. Does yours?


Very well, thank you for asking.


Perhaps when we start new threads to argue against ideologies, we could come back into this thread and edit links into the posts.
 
 
Persephone
11:48 / 27.01.02
Just for clarity, I wasn't meaning to --and wouldn't-- argue against anyone's ideologies. I really was only asking.

Not only do I really believe that there ought to be some people who have "wrong" beliefs, I even more believe that there ought to be *many* people who have perfectly sound beliefs that may not work for you, but that you may respectfully ask to look at and turn around in your hands and see what makes 'em tick.

[ 27-01-2002: Message edited by: Persephone ]
 
 
Persephone
11:50 / 27.01.02
Argh.

[ 27-01-2002: Message edited by: Persephone ]
 
 
cusm
14:59 / 28.01.02
I generally don't believe, so much as assume to be true for now until proven otherwise or found to be no longer useful.
 
 
SMS
19:39 / 28.01.02
I thought that's what belief was.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
20:22 / 28.01.02
I'm an anti-pro-lifer, pro-anti-fascist and a champagne socialist. Is Rush Limbaugh your irritating suit? She sounds like she works for Arthur Andersen or JP Morgan.
 
 
QUINT
08:37 / 29.01.02
Yo! Monkeys. You'e had your information, baby. Now git on an start some o' them fars you wuz tawkin baht.
 
 
Saveloy
15:07 / 29.01.02
What yanks my chain?

1. I'm absolutely furious that I have to work for a living. The fact that I've mentioned this several times on public forums over the last 5 years and we STILL don't have full automation makes me angrier still. What IS the point of the bloody internet, eh?

2. The tyranny of cool. The poncification of the nation. Embroidered Spiderman t-shirts selling for 95 quid. Spotted in Dixons the other day, as one of the features of a midi system: "Lifestyle design". AAARRGHH! Laddism was bad, right, but this really is going too far in the other direction.

3. The unimaginative ways the wealthy spend their money. All of those mind-numbing, crippling work hours for that. It's like getting to the end of a mad conspiracy story which explains the subjugation of the human race and aliens etc only to discover that it's all for the sake of keeping the guys at the top in gold teeth and crystal decanters.

[ 29-01-2002: Message edited by: Saveloy ]
 
 
ciarconn
22:01 / 29.01.02
I am a post post modern rationalist
I am a sceptic legal neutral mage/philosopher
I believe in the dream of Xavier

I do not believe in what i believed yesterday, and now death has smiled to me.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:20 / 29.01.02
A rough guide to my ideology :

Personal freedom (Personal freedom, personal freedom, personal fucking bloody freedom!)

Freedom = responsibility.

There is both freedom to and freedom from.

You have a responsibility to understand me; however, I have an even greater responsibility to make myself understood.

Tolerance is good.

Respect is better.

Empathy is best.

I don't know jack shit about you except what you choose to tell me.


Right = duty, but the most important duty you have is your duty to yourself. Get that right and you won't fuck up too badly.

Attack is not defence.

---------------------------

This seemed like an interesting proj, so I went forth and got suited up. Currently I'm incubating my anti-suit in the less idealogical areas of the board. When it's ready I'll wheel it over here to play.

Catch it if you can...
 
 
No star here laces
08:41 / 30.01.02
I believe that all the incredibly glib and smugly self-satisfied posts on the first page of this thread really gyp my ass.

I think the number one irritating thing about this board is the near universal belief that the only politics worth discussing is on an individual level.

I think that there are a lot of problems with the macro social structures in the world, such as nation-states, transnational corporations and NGOs.

Strikes me that the political history of the planet has been a story of how best to prevent people from fulfilling their worst impulses, with of course the assumption that what people really want to do is fulfil those worst impulses.

What characterises utopian and/or leftist thinking is the assumption that, given the chance, people would be nice to each other. I really like this thought, so in my optimistic moments might say I believed in anarchism.

However, in practical terms, this type of society is so far away from all the ideas and structures that we are all irrevocably inculcated with today that it cannot possibly be acheived in the near future (if ever). So the only hope is to help these ideas disseminate in order to push the consensus a little further in that direction.

I believe that within the current basic world setup (Empire, if you will) there is a lot that could be done to make things better. I would turn all corporations into workers cooperatives, with an elected executive - democracy needs to be applied to the new power structures of the world, not just the nation state. I believe in increased redistribution of wealth - we cannot hope to help the third world without giving them some more fucking money.

I believe that the world lacks long-term thinking and that democratic structures need to be modified to allow this to happen - short termism is what is destroying the environment and national infrastructure.

I also believe that if we are to be governed then the government needs to take some interest in not just our fiscal well-being, but our spiritual well-being as well. The decline of community and spirituality has very real consequences for the world, and if old-time religion has become irrelevant then we need something to take its place...

Phew.
 
 
Saveloy
08:41 / 30.01.02
[lazy] Whoever's taking these down - can you add Lyra's lot to my glib, self-satisfied ones? [/lazy]
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
08:41 / 30.01.02
I think my problem is that I don't have a set of beliefs that I can put down like that. Which is to say, I was reading Lyra's and thinking "yes! Good!" But then the angst fairies started picking away at issues of independence and self-determination and my head fell off. I am the classic comedy liberal who literally cannot get and stick to a position on anything.

But...

On one level I'm an anarchist, or more precisely an anarcho-syndicalist, seeing a web-accelerated breakup of the world into communities which can create things locally, trade across what may or may not still be their nation for others, and procure others through further-length communicatin, The aim being to reduce environemntally unfriendly long-haul portage, particularly of goods that could be produced locally. Problem withj that being that to make it work, among many, many other things, the third world has a) to be given aid in realising its wealth of resources and b) to stop being buttfucked by global finance. And, realistically, you probably need c) some sort of global enforcer, which is not exactly true to the principles of Bakhunin.

And that's my problem. Like LYra, I can't see how the state can be got rid of right now. I'm sure they are ways, but they are progressive.

And, although I am all for personal liberties on one level, another side of me is suffering from serious "friendly Hitler" syndrome. Crack down on personal car ownership, tax the rich, rebuild a public service-based infrastructure, provide incentives for homeworking....basically, how much of that is altruism and a desire to minimise wastage and how much of it is a desire to make the world better for people like me, or to enforce what I believe to be sensible decisions against the wishes of others? What gives hypothetical policymake Tann that right?


So, basically, I'm more likely to savage my own limp-wristed milquetoast beliefs than any other person.
 
 
Jackie Susann
10:13 / 30.01.02
Not to be picky, Haus, but that's really not 'precisely' anarcho-syndicalism, which is basically radical, anti-statist trade unionism - no anarcho-syndicalist would suggest the 'aim' of their creed was to reduce the environmental costs of long-distance haulage. Indeed, I think most committed anarcho-syndicalists would consider your schema an example of social democratic reformism, an attempt to reduce the social costs of continued exploitation of the working class.

And 'some sort of global enforcer' doesn't seem, to me, to be particularly antithetical to Bakunin's ideas - this is, after all, the man who almost certainly co-wrote (and definitely agreed with) Nechayev's 'Catechism of a Revolutionary'.

I'm sorry, it's just not often I get to spot Haus making a factual error. It's really quite exciting, in a juvenile way.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
10:36 / 30.01.02
And I can only admit my fault and plead ignorance. If I knew more about political philosophy I would probably have more coherent politics.

(Although I knew that the environmental gloss on anarcho-syndicalism was a gloss, at least)
 
 
Persephone
12:28 / 30.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Lyra Lovelaces:
I believe that all the incredibly glib and smugly self-satisfied posts on the first page of this thread really gyp my ass.


So much for etiquette.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:48 / 30.01.02
Sigh. Reading Haus and Lyra's posts makes me realize that although I would enjoy a world where, as Lyra says "People will be nice to one another," that certainly isn't feasible in any future I can imagine. So what do I believe in.

I believe in the (global) Nanny State. I am unreconstructed trust-busting, welfare loving liberal. Government should regulate corporate behavior with these three priorities in mind (in descending order of precedence) (a) the welfare of the workers employed directly or indirectly by the corporation (b) the welfare of those who purchase and use the goods or services produced by the coporation (c) long-term environmental consequences of the modes of production employed by a corporation.

I believe the Nanny state should affect some sort of redistribution of global wealth. However, I am not entirely convinced that global corporations are NOT the way to do this.

I believe that many on the left-wing have made a category error in which they confuse changes in the epistemological structure with changes in the ontological structure. In other words, they think talking about the world can change it. This is my unresolved problem with "Theory" of all types writ large.

I still believe in a social contract among citizens (not of shareholders, as the current judicial, executive and legislative branches of the US goverment may have it), no matter how much this idea has been tainted by its historical association with colonialist states. It is an idea worth salvaging and updating to reflect the 21st century.

I think I do believe in a teleology of human history, even though I deny it all the time. I suppose that is limp-wristed utopianism in a nutshell.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:55 / 30.01.02
Oh, and I believe that some beliefs are more <//true/valid/worthwhile/correct//> than other beliefs, whether we're talking about spirituality, politics, morality, ethics, whatever. I can't defend that in any logical terms, I'm afraid.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
13:57 / 30.01.02
Mooooooonnnnnkkkkkkeeeeeeeyyys!?
 
  

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