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Underground > Radio & Music >

50 cent's popularity and attitudes to race in music

  
 
No star here laces
12:18 / 05.03.03
So 50 Cent is riding high in the album charts on both sides of the Atlantic. Apart from 'In da club' which is a thing of beauty it is basically boring, tuneless and derivative in every way, yet is substantially outselling far better albums by the likes of the Clipse, Nas and Jay-Z.

The only thing most people know about 50 cent is that he got shot more times last year than is usual for a man who is still breathing, and that he has had beef with nearly everyone in the hip hop scene.

So it could be that 'the kids' just like the allure of danger that surrounds the man.

But I'd like to draw an analogy between the appeal of 50 cent, DMX and (way back in the day) Ice T. These acts aren't pop in the way Nelly is (which is a good way) or skilled in the way Jay-Z is (which is a good way) or even political in the way Tupac was (no comment). But what they do do, very successfully, is play off all of white people's worst fears about black people.

I think they are the Marilyn Mansons of rap.

So what's up with that? Am I talking bollocks? Should we be worried? What does it all mean?
 
 
No star here laces
13:24 / 05.03.03
From Bengali in Platforms via PM:

gah. am over my limit due to late night fucking about but have been thinking about DMX as well. so i'm gonna pm you this blurb as my conc. span is like a sieve atm and want to get it down...(teach me to stop taking my ADs won't it. )

I think to an extent, the MM comparisons work in the strategy they're using: pick a major cultural factor - race, religion - and scare people shitless with their worst case scenario version. Thus generating publicity and getting kids who want to define their independence from their parents by scaring/pissing them off.

(I might argue that Madonna could be said to have at times done the same thing with gender... but its far rarer and doesn't really work bigscale. Boy George also possibly? There was a lot of capital in my house in the 'you can't tell whether he's a boy or a girl' speech...)

There *are* major differences in how this persona is developed, where it's mined from. One major one being that Brian Warner is a 'nice' middle-class (he seems smart and funny and reasonably self-deprecating, met him once and didn't come away feeling i'd been hanging out with an Antichrist Superstar) boy who's taken on a persona and run with it, rather in the manner of David Bowie.

He *needs* to cover hiimself in warpaint and call himself MM *and* sing about zombies before anyone will *notice* that he's the Son of Satan.

And the fact that people may genuinely believe he's an evil satanic demon (do they genuinely think he's somethinig 'other' or is he just a very naughty boy?) doesn't alter the fact that this is considerably different to someone like 50Cent playing on a cultural anxiety that exists in the majority of people as soon as he's walking down the street.

He's *exaggerating and playing* those fears, sure, and therein lies his success. (I'm not any kind of fan but I know all about his bulletproof jeep, vest, scars etc. Profiles in the Observer are jam for this stuff ) And that's why I think the gangsta thing works better in the US - and certainly in the UK where almost nobody gives a shit about Brian, as nobody gives a shit about christianity.

But everyone's still terrified of scary black men with guns.... and the less it's possible to admit to it, the more hysterical the reactions will get... perhaps.

phew.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:58 / 05.03.03
I can see where the two of you are going with this, but I'm not certain to what extent I'd agree with you.

I think the problem with 50 Cent for me is mostly that his music is really boring and lame, including "In Da Club", which I think is a thoroughly mediocre effort. 50 Cent has no flow, he's got a shitty voice, and his success can be almost entirely chalked up to the fact that Eminem and Dr. Dre are for some bizarre reason endorsing the guy. He's basically the Ma$e to Eminem's Puffy.

I think that a lot of people, particularly a lot of the people who tend to write about pop music in places like Barbelith or ILM, would truly like to believe that rap works differently from every other kind of music, and that the most popular stuff is uniformly important and exciting, but the fact of the matter is that more and more each year, it becomes pretty easy for no-talent thugs to get hits simply by playing the game. I don't think there's a big world of difference between Godsmack, Nickelback, Staind, Fat Joe, and 50 Cent. It's the same thing going on.
 
 
_pin
22:03 / 05.03.03
A lot of the nasty wee bastards that make up my main school, I suspect, aren't really aware of Eminem/Dr. Dre's patronage. Dre hasn't release an album for years and no one could get in to see 8 Mile. While there may well be numerous business reasons for why their bigging up of 50's talents are causing this (most notably- agreeing to release the album, after no one would touch him following his Whoa! Seven?? media event), but Eminem's success with the 15 year olds wasn't down to no NWA backing (I know. I was there).

So... yeh, I'd have to go with Bitch and BIP on this one- surely, with Jay-Z and Nelly et al seeming to go corporate, 50 cent is just NOT A BUSINESS MAN. I mean come on- it's probablly going to be a bit hard for parents to ground their children for listening to a man who's engaged/not engaged to a nice devout Christian lady and has his own line of shoes.

(As a side note: Kim Howells- helping this? Nothing like re-igniting a debate on violence in music to get parents all foamy at the mouths. It's ust asking for kids to piss them off this way, surely?)
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:02 / 05.03.03
cheers Byron. I'm sorted now.

Flux: from what i've heard (only a couple of tracks), I'd agree that 50cent's music is crap and has a touch of novelty value maybe. But we're not talking about whether we think it's any good or not, we're talking about why he's the Big New Thing in Hip Hop. Not relevant.

And Dre/Emininem may really like his stuff. Or they may just have spotted that he's going to be the next big thing, potentially bigger than Eminem, and want him on their label rather than competing with them. Smart business sense.

And Pin's right on the 'not a corporate whore' *presentation*. there's really a market for that.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:23 / 06.03.03
In all fairness I would say that your opinions of the man's talent are probably not in the majority. The critics are giving him high praise, and even the Source who is currently feuding with Em and Dre say that he has skills. The only professionals I hear who say they aren't impressed are the ones he has beef with.

I believe the 1st buzz around him started when he made the song "How to Rob" where he name drops about 50 rappers and singers and talks about various ways to rob them. Pissed off many of those people, but a lot of people thought it was hilarious.

The fact that he has street cred doesn't hurt either. Who else has been shot in the face? That's extreme. Add that in with stories about how his mom was part of a drug dealing gang and murdered when he was very young, and then by his early teens he was running the gang. That's good stuff for a gangsta rapper. You can't buy that kind of cred.

And while I haven't checked out his current album, all his bootleg songs aren't that bad. What I like is he seems more in the spirit of laughing things off rather than trying to totally go the way of the hardcore murder thug, which I think is what 2pac was doing in the end of his days. More of a not take this shit so serious vibe.

So I don't think he's as talentless as you guys seem to think. But just a matter of taste I suppose.
 
 
videodrome
05:14 / 06.03.03
even the Source who is currently feuding with Em and Dre say that he has skills

...you mean the same mag which just ran a six-page piece on Benzino (co-owner of the mag) which was played as 'the final answer to the fued'? You think there's real responsibility going on there? Or are they just making shit up to move product? Hmmm.

Who else has been shot in the face? That's extreme. Add that in with stories about how his mom was part of a drug dealing gang and murdered when he was very young, and then by his early teens he was running the gang. That's good stuff for a gangsta rapper.

This is exactly what BB is talking about. This is what's selling 50 Cent - not his skills. You've just made exactly the point this thread is pondering.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
12:55 / 06.03.03
It can't be both?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
15:12 / 06.03.03
I mention the Source for that very reason. Despite the fact there is a huge problem with their magazine, mainly co-founders having beef with other rappers, Eminem, they still had to acknowledge 50's skill, or they look like even bigger hypocrits than they already are. Eminem, Dre, and 50 all stated in an XXL cover story that they would never have anything to do with Source again, and despite that the Source still had to give 50 a good review because everyone else is.

Rolling Stone, Spin, Source, and XXL all acknowledge this man's skill. As far as his extracurricular activities, that just helps. It's not all that's selling his albums, but of course it helps. I just don't think he's as talentless as many of you think. He's just got a different style.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:28 / 06.03.03
Rolling Stone, Spin, Source, and XXL all acknowledge this man's skill.

Yes, and those are all very credible music journalists indeed.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
16:55 / 06.03.03
I'm sorry, I couldn't find 50's review in my latest MaximumRocknRoll.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:24 / 06.03.03
Brother, you just went from bad to worse.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
21:09 / 06.03.03
That's it Flux. I've absolutely had it with you in this thread and I'm going to do something about it right now.


Yo, I kick lyrical popcorn like Orville Redenbacher,
And your opinion on 50 is like professional soccer,
No one wants to see it, even if it is Arsenal,
They'd rather eat barbacue accessories like charcoal,
Word

Sorry I had to do that.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:35 / 06.03.03
Well, I'm just curious why you or anyone else is taking Rolling Stone in its present state seriously, and to a slightly lesser degree, SPIN, Source, XXL, and all of the other shill magazines currently on the newstands. Did Blender and Maxim give it a good review too? What about the NME?

All I'm saying is that my confidence in corporate magazine's opinions about music is at an all-time low - I really have strong doubts about their journalistic integrity, particularly the current incarnation of Rolling Stone.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
00:13 / 07.03.03
First let me thank you for not going into lyrical combat with me. It could've gotten dangerous.

It's just that the few posters who replied stated that 50 Cent had no talent as it were a fact, ignoring that many people consider him talented. Critical acclaim has long been a measure of talent so I used the music industries top magazines to show that no one was really taking him as a joke, like the few of you here. I cited Source and XXL as they are the only magazines I know of who cover rap exclusively. Rolling Stone and Spin as the two major music magazines.

As far as reviews I don't think Rolling Stone or Spin are that bad at all. I don't think that if there is a lack of integrity in editorial that it necessarily rolls over into their reviews. Perhaps in whom they choose to review or not review, but in general I think they do a good job in the broad sense, either cd sucks or cd's good. Maybe we should start a seperate thread in regards to mainstream music magazines.
 
 
bio k9
05:58 / 07.03.03
Rolling Stone does record reviews?
 
  
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