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Standing up to bullies

19:08 / 01.03.03

With all the recent discussion of school hierarchies and fist-fighting - and the 'it's the only language Saddam understands' sentiment flying around in Real Life - I've got to thinking about the whole phenomenon of bullies and bullying, specifically whether the received wisdom on bullies is actually borne out by individual personal experience. I brought this up in the 'Favourite Fist Fight' thread but no-one really ran with it, so I'm trying again here.

So...

Bullies, we're told, are cowards; it's important to stand up to them, face them off, etc. - or they'll bully us forever. Is this true? As a small, skinny, weedy kid with glasses, I had my share of bullying. My one real attempt to follow the 'stand up to them' advice resulted in my walking away with a split lip, broken spectacles and no dinner money - and the bullying continued. What I usually found more useful was a combination of (as much as humanly possible) not rising to provocation (which makes one a rather boring target), distraction and saying something funny. Hardly failsafe, as strategies go, but at least as successful as trying to face 'em down - and, strangely, I often ended up on moderately good terms with the bully.

How have others handled bullying? Did it work?

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

19:42 / 01.03.03

I got bullied at school, tried everything, fighting back, shutting up, having a laugh, still got a kickin. Then me brother had this idea and it fucking stopped sharpish.

Best way to stop a bully, is to get them on their own, chuck em in a van take em into the woods tied to a chair, cover em in petrol and smoke a tab till they piss themselves. Then drop them off in front of thier mates covered in thier own piss and stinking like shite.

Running works, or trying to get on with em, but at the end of the day if you're not getting a pasting off em them then some other poor bastard who ain't as savvy is getting your beating.

Fucking Harsh.

19:51 / 01.03.03

You are Irvine Welsh and I claim my £5.

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

20:29 / 01.03.03

AAh Irvine Welsh, doubt he was bullied.

Funnily enough I was discussing bullying with a friend the other day, he was a pretty evil bully at school. Not the beating up type, more the humiliating kind.
Apparently he used to make 1st years stand to attention with thier chins pushed out and make them sing "Away In A Manger", threatening to slap them round the face if the pitch of thier song wasn't high enough. Makes me laugh when i hear about it now. But i bet it's fucked some kids up. Thing is he's a really nice person, in fact one of the nicest people i know.

Should I kick his arse?

20:48 / 01.03.03

Nah, but arses may well feature at some point. He clearly has a talent for humiliation: perhaps you could suggest he becomes an SM master?

Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns

21:01 / 01.03.03

Hadn't considered that, maybe he actually is already. Although I reckon he'd probably like to one the submissive party. But who knows I'll ask.

21:05 / 01.03.03

I think you're probably right...

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

22:23 / 01.03.03

My brief experience of bullying was very strange. One guy tried to bully me in the second year of secondary school, but the “coolest” guys in school went up to him and said I was ok. I barely knew him. But I had just moved into his class. However I was also best mate with a so-called “nutter” from the remedial class. We used to “fun” fight very violently and very publicly, with each other, in open view of everyone else.
I should have been bullied more; I was a comic’s fan, played role-playing games and was terrible with wimmin.
However my lack of bullying at school has not diminished the intrinsic, routine bullying that happens at work. But that is another story.

23:54 / 01.03.03

I was bullied (small until I was 15, roleplayer etc) until I lost my temper- freaked out and attacked the guy. They stopped, so maybe it does work- cetainly if it's about bluffing then acting crazy probably works. Maybe that's what Saddam's thinking. Maybe that's what Bush is thinking...
But you can't apply the rules of personal interaction to international politics- nations aren't people.

23:54 / 01.03.03

I was bullied (small until I was 15, roleplayer etc) until I lost my temper- freaked out and attacked the guy. They stopped, so maybe it does work- cetainly if it's about bluffing then acting crazy probably works. Maybe that's what Saddam's thinking. Maybe that's what Bush is thinking...
But you can't apply the rules of personal interaction to international politics- nations aren't people.

Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes

00:05 / 02.03.03

The problem for me is that bulling is so easily replicated. It seems to form the basis of “my” working life. In fact, every firm I have worked for exhibits types of bulling. I seem to get the idea that it is a process of perpetuating a social structure. In school, admitting to bullying is social suicide.

02:00 / 02.03.03

It depends on whether the bullying is constant, like a group in school, or just someone fucking with you at the bar.

If you abhor fighting, then standing up to a bully at the bar is probably not the way to go. They want a fight and standing up to them will make them fight you. Please listen to me, none of that killing them with kindness stuff will work in this situation. Leave that in your Grant Morrison comics. If you don't abhor violence, and stand up to the bar bully then it will work. He'll either beat you senseless, and you'll go home. Or you'll beat him, and he'll go home. Either way the bullying is over.

The school thing is different. These bullies are your enemies, and you see them daily, you've developed a relationship. In this situation you have time to plot, scheme, and killing them with kindness just might work. But actually standing up to them and fighting? I'd say it's really 50/50. If that.

Foust is SO authentic

03:30 / 02.03.03

I was physically attacked a few times. I was/am a bit chubby, and certainly slow, so I was seen as an easy target. The fact that my weight more than made up for my clumsiness in a fight deterred no one. I held my own in several fights, but I never won respect for that.

The only antidote to bullying I ever found was having a popular friend. See, in childhood I was really good friends with one of the most popular guys around. In high school, we weren't as close, but whenever he was around, people laid off. He was asked more than once why he'd hang around a loser like me, and he replied that I was cool. He'd go out of his way to hang out with me. I appreciated it a great deal, and I consider myself to be in his debt.

Foust is SO authentic

03:40 / 02.03.03

Something I left out of the above post. I said that I held my own in fights, but that didn't win me respect. I think that it's because I obviously didn't want to fight. Whenever I found myself in a winning position, I'd try to end the fight peacefully. Most of the time I simply defended myself and never went on the offensive.

21:40 / 02.03.03

It's amazing how there's this romantic idea of bullying and bullies. People think it's some kind of rite of passage, a winnowing of the weak. Bullies aren't people over-concerned with their own social status and prepared to use hostility to fortify it, they're agents of cosmic justice.

Standing up to someone can either mean they back down and acknowledge your social superiority, or try even harder. I've seen both happen, usually the latter, because targets of bullying usually don't have the social awareness to know what to do to overcome it. That's what counts, not physical force, unless you're in an environment where pure physical force is a social ranking tool.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:46 / 02.03.03

Point. It's also interesting that we seem to focus on the physical aspect of bullying, when it's often a psychological deal. (Not that the physical shit doesn't hurt like hell, but...)