Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

Why's everyone bashing Xavier's dream?

00:09 / 27.02.03

I mean even through the early days, wasn't Xavier's dream really simple? Mutants and humans getting along together. It seems many readers are now questioning Xavier's dream and wondering where the opposition party is. The one guy who people thought might have some alternate philosophy turned out to be a guy trying to impress the ladies. Am I missing something in the dream? I mean it may be a boring dream, but what are the other plans? The extermination of one or the other? Xavier has been compared to Martin Luther King jr. to Magneto's Malcolm X, and while some would find the Dr. a bit of a bore compared to early revolutionary Malcolm, it's not the most accurate description. Xavier's had the mutant version of the Black Panthers in his X-Men for some time, so it's not as he's just sitting back doing nothing. Does everything need an opposing view that might work?

01:50 / 27.02.03

The main objection in most cases seems to be that old baldy is a little too controlling in his ways. It began fairly simple, since in the beginning he was something of a father figure to a small group of disenfranchised youth. But really, "To me, my X-Men!" What kind of patronizing crap is that?

Not to mention the whole Onslaught ordeal. In a nod to Freud's love of repression, we were treated to the man's dark side incarnate as a physical being to stomp all over the world. He's always had a bit of a facist undertone, but that's the price of being a true visionary. I can't think of any X-Man who hasn't felt alienated at some point.

Of course, now we're treated to Millar's version who enjoys mindwiping people at will.

11:10 / 27.02.03

He's always had a bit of a facist undertone

Examples prior to Onslaught?

12:05 / 27.02.03

Mutants are not like any 'real-world' oppressed minority, because a lot of them are really fucking dangerous, whether they have intent to be or not.

The 'dream' seems not to take this into account.

19:53 / 27.02.03

How is Xavier's dream different than, say, Jesus' dream of humanity living in peace together? Martin Luther King's dream of a world where love and tolerance and respect reigns? John Lennon's dream that he 'imagined'? I'm glad someone posted this -- it's not always cool to bash optimistic visions for peaceful co-existence in the future, where everyone is valued for their talents and contributions to the society.

Sure, it makes for good drama to examine the ways such dreams don't work out when human nature gets in the way. But the dream intrinsically is a pure one, I think. (Millar's Xavier is certainly more Machiavellian than Morrison's.)

19:56 / 27.02.03

And Duncan, I think the dream takes mutant's powers into account perfectly. People can be dangerous without powers too, you know, just like in real life.

You don't have to shoot ray blasts to be a dangerous individual. Gary Gygax, when defending DUNGEONS & DRAGONS against parents groups who said it was corrupting their children, pointed to a chair and said "This chair has a purpose. To sit on or to stand on to reach up to the top shelf. But this chair can also be used to smash a window or beat someone senseless. The chair in and of itself is not good or bad, it is how it's used."

Mutants' powers are a metaphor for the talents and strengths in any real-world human, which can be used for evil purposes or otherwise twisted around. The theme of "we fear that which we do not understand or which could potentially threaten us" is also a 'real world' theme.

OK enough preaching from me

20:02 / 27.02.03

Okay, but if you imagine a 'real', rather than metaphorical, scenario with a guy who can project fire or energy or something, perhaps even sometimes unintentionally (cf: Venus de Milo's origin,) and you just a fragile human being, I think you'd be pretty intimidated.

Or a multitude of variations.

20:02 / 27.02.03

No one is bashing the dream per se - but what Morrison seems to be doing is exposing the flaws in Xavier's vision in light of the huge political and social changes in the Marvel Universe - the destruction of Genosha and the death of Magneto wiping out his main political opponent, and the rapidly rising mutant birthrate that will lead to mutants being the majority not a minority.

The Mindreading for Columbine thread explores this in more detail.

20:03 / 27.02.03

And I like Xavier's dream; I think his current methodology may be what's opened it to criticism.

15:22 / 28.02.03

Lawrence, if I remember well, the first time the Blob faced the X Men (on the first 10 issues of the original series), Xavier ends up brainwashing the Blob (and the whole circus, but I do not have my tradepaperbacks at hand now), when Magneto took Wolverine´s bones, Xavier cleaned up his personality. There are some of the early issues where he feigns to have lost his powers to push the X Men into better working, and he even feigned his death, to be able to plan his attack against an invading alien race. Shrotly before the sentinel crisis on space (where the Phoenix comes for the fisrt time at Jean), Xavier lost his marbles and created (another) evil Psychic doppelganger.

fascist overtones? shameless manipulator? Egocentrical leader?

I mean X men? Did you read the further adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix? Mr Sinister calls the X Factor Essex factor... and would have probably formed the Essex Men... or something like that.

His dream is good, his ways are questionable

18:18 / 28.02.03

You have to admit the man is at best a hippocrite:

As an activist for peace, he trains a militia group.

As a fighter for the acceptance of mutants, he refuses to admit to being one.

Even as an imposed father figure, he refuses to be emotionaly available.

He has to be aware of what he's doing. I've personally been really happy how Ultimate X-Man has played up his personal flaws in these areas.

But the dream.....

Well, the dream is still a good one. No personal flaw could stop that.

Professor Silly

18:58 / 28.02.03

I'd say a sharper comparison could be drawn between the X-Men and Shao Lin. Yes, Shao Lin monks are taught to fight--that does not describe their goals or motivations. Historically the fact that the monks could defend themselves ensured their survival of several "regime changes" (to use a popular phrase of late). When a regime came that they couldn't fight (communism) they scattered and went underground.

Again though, this doesnt' describe their goal, which we could describe as "hatha-buddhism." They seek a mystical experience--a union with life-force, or Tao, or God (call it what you will).

I remember reading an interview with Morrison where he mentioned approaching Xavier from a sensai-like perspective, and I think this fits very well. First and foremost, he will ensure the survival of those he has taken in to teach...so they may replace him as teachers when he dies. This form of teaching does seem viral-like, as mentioned in other threads. Let's face it: this seems the best way to ensure the dreams survival, regardless of potential hostilities.

22:03 / 28.02.03

Did you read the Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix?

I've not read this, but it's worth noting it was written by everyone's (second) favourite scribe, Peter Milligan.

Can you expand a bit, ciarconn?

01:34 / 01.03.03

The short story: Cyclops and Phoenix are taken to the end of the nineteenth century to stop Apocalypse from taking control of Europe. They coincide with the period of time in which Essex is converted by Apocalypse into Mr Sinister. They show the interaction between Essex and Darwin. There is an exposition at the scientific club in London, where Essex exposes his derivation of Darwin's theory: accelerated mutation, and the presence of a genetic facgtor that will be related to mutation... Essex calls it "Essex Factor". He is later converted into Sinister.

02:02 / 01.03.03

Ah, right. I see.

I thought Mr. Sinister was a cracking villain 'til he got played out.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

08:38 / 01.03.03

Wait... Essex gets turned in to Mister Sinister? But, he doesn't even like wearing white stilettos...

10:43 / 01.03.03

Huh???

Anyway, the point of the comparisson was that Xavier called the mutant gene X factor (he says it's X because it represents an unknown quantity), in an egocentric way that paralels Sinister calling it Essex factor. It would be interesting to know what Kirby and Lee were thinking about when they called them X Men and the Professor got surnamed Xavier.

Graeme McMillan

12:50 / 01.03.03

"Of course, now we're treated to Millar's version who enjoys mindwiping people at will."

As the original Stan Lee/Jack Kirby did all the fucking time. I've been rereading the cheapo black and white collection of the first twenty or so issues, and Xavier in there is much more of a Morrison-esque bastard than he became later...