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Raja Yoga, practice and other misconceptions.

 
 
illmatic
07:57 / 18.02.03
This thread might be a bit of a tangle of thoughts, but lets face facts, that’s what we all love about Barbelith. Where else can I sound off at length about obscure topics like this, and be guaranteed to get an intelligent response?

Anyway, I was thinking recently about a few of the first practices I tried, and I’d like to ask others some questions about them to see what people’s experiences have been – I thought maybe we could spin this out into a thread on the difference between theory and practice. It might be helpful for people starting out and it’s just good to share experience anyway.

What I was thinking about specifically was Raja Yoga, I was first put on to this after being inspired by Crowley’s accounts in Book 4 and 8 Lectures in Yoga. Raja Yoga, as I understand it, is simply visualising geometric shapes and holding concentration on same. Anyone who has tried this will know it’s fiendishly difficult – the shapes seem to stutter and flicker all over the place, mind wanders off on all sorts of tangents etc etc. Crowley states that if you master this concentration, eventually you experience the fusion of subject and object – that which is concentrated on fuse with that which is concentrating. This experience produces samadhi, experience of the godhead, enlightenment etc.

Well, this never happened to me! Not surprising either – seems a bit of a tall order. plus I didn’t stick with it enough – my ability to concentrate and hold images improved but it’s by no means perfect. It seems from reading Regardie’s biography of him that Crowley did have this experience, he wasn’t lying as I wondered but he did take it too extremes of austerity, extremes I can’t replicate in my own life. That’s what initially prompted this line of thought – I wondered if anyone out there has had any interesting experiences arising from this sort of practice?

Next line of though – I think a lot of beginning practices are really badly written about (including the first descriptions of meditation etc that I encountered). There’s a real magickal work ethic, a real “you must suffer” tone in a lot of books. For instance, a real pet hate of mine is are the meditation instructions in Liber Null & Psychonaut, Liber MMM - I think these are possibly the worst instruction for meditation ever written – all that stuff about “extremes of morbid concentration” etc It seems evident to me now – though it wasn’t when I first attempted things - that you’ll never succeed with stuff like this unless you can pursue it in a relaxed manner with a minimum of guilt. I was talking about this with another Barbaperson on Saturday. Seems to me that a lot of our conditioning ie the work ethci, or machismo (as I’ve observed in some cases) can pass over into our magickal work unquestioned. Any thoughts?

Furthermore, I think there’s a huge gulf between our conceptions of a practice and what will actually happen if we bother to do it. No surprises here, the word sunset doesn’t equate with seeing one, the map is not the territory blah blah blah. There’s a way of talking about magick which implies if we’ll do the same thing we’ll all have the same experiences. I think this is false Magick is an uncertain science at best and probes a lot of unexplored areas of our psyches and bodies – all being different, it stands to reason, we’ll all have different results – including that old favourite, “nothing at all”.

So I thought this might be a useful thread to share experiences, questions or anecdotes – ie what was the first thing you tried? What happened (including “nothing”)? How did this differ from your preconceptions? What do you think is best way to approach practice etc etc. Are there any assumptions common in magicakal circles (including this board) that you think need challenging? Please get stuck in and feel free to go off on as many tangents as I have above.
 
 
illmatic
09:49 / 20.02.03
bump

C'mon now... or was I wrong with my statement in the first para above?
 
 
23chao5
13:47 / 23.02.03
This sort of hits on some general things I've been thinking about sigil magick in general. Before I got into chaos magick I got into Buddhism, especially Zen meditation, and have been doing it off and on with more and more regularity as the years went by, culminating in a trip to Japan last semester where as part of the curriculum we meditated twice a day for an hour each time. This helped me learn how to actually manage my schedule to be able to do this without necessarily stopping the other parts of my life.

In any case, I've found no better guide to meditation than Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. I realize this is once again a matter of preference as there are many types of meditation, but I think it is far more effective to take the general Middle Path "just let go of the thought and return to [object of concentration]" way than the extremes of renunciate traditions from India we've received where you have to be super-austere. I find it better to think of my thoughts as another aspect of my senses, and in meditation I am not trying to shut down my senses but step back from all of them objectively... I find I concentrate best in this way.

In the same sense, the entire concept of "lust of result" I have found always dealt with in a sort of "shove any thoughts about your sigil/desire out of your mind once your sigil is done." I've found this isn't always really necessary... just that general meditative "letting go" is enough... if it comes back, no problem. Of course, perhaps the sigils of mine that haven't worked are those that I have much stronger "lust of result" for, but no amount of shoving seems adequate for some of those. That's a skill I'm working at through meditation, generally not "lusting" and just being present. I've found simply continuing to meditate everyday has in that sense greatly increased the effectiveness of my sigils and general receptiveness to synchronicity and other guides.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:19 / 23.02.03
ooh. interesting. will have a think and come back. (oh, and Mr.I, just want to say, I *love* the way you raise these sorts of questions, and do it in a way that I find accessible, even with little magical knowledge/experience. feels like real 'way in' stuff, and I appreciate that.)
 
 
illmatic
07:18 / 24.02.03
Cheers BiP
Just curious, 23Chaos5 - how did your interest in Chaos Magick grow out of Buddhism? Agree with you on the sigil thing as well, btw.
 
 
Babooshka
14:51 / 24.02.03
It seems evident to me now – though it wasn’t when I first attempted things - that you’ll never succeed with stuff like this unless you can pursue it in a relaxed manner with a minimum of guilt.... – Mr. Illmatic

Yeah, I hear that. Beginners tend to beat themselves up a lot more than they need to over the right way to do things. Discipline is essential to Magickal progress, but it needs to be tempered by compassion.

I think part of it might be that people are learning more from books than from other people, so there isn't always that feedback or information given from direct experience. I wonder if, because one is thrown more on one's own experience and perceptions when studying from books or without a teacher, it seems more daunting and one feels the need to be tougher on oneself.

Not that I always advocate finding a teacher! I'm more into the idea of making sure one trusts oneself and that there is a certain amount of self-love and awareness of one's own strengths and weaknesses before one seriously considers taking a magickal path. Once you have a sense of who you are, what you want to accomplish and how you might be standing in your own way, then you're in a position to decide if this is right for you.

That idea can go for any major life goal or direction actually, not just Magick.
 
 
23chao5
18:43 / 25.02.03
Just curious, 23Chaos5 - how did your interest in Chaos Magick grow out of Buddhism? Agree with you on the sigil thing as well, btw.

Well, in a way I consider this the story of my general opening-up in life. I was definitely always kind of the unhappy, skeptical, atheistic anarchist kid with good grades and a few friends but general outsider-ishness (at least since middle school) and a tendency toward introversion and self-consciousness... usual stuff. But I'd always been into reading sites about hacking and so forth, I dug that stuff quite a bit, and that led me somehow over into deoxy.org where I started reading about drugs, Tim Leary, Robert Anton Wilson, and Alan Watts. Alan Watts in a sense cleared out some of the old crap for me... like "Here, the way you've thought about the world... it's all just one way of looking at it!" and then RAW reinforced this. So I kind of simultaneously got into it all, although at first I was more inclined to try meditating than sigils...

In a way I just felt lazy about sigils and still had some general skepticism in me. But that started to go away as more and more I started to think of things as interconnected, as belief affecting my world, etc. And that's that.
 
  
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