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Ragged Robin Writing The Invisibles

 
 
PatrickMM
23:20 / 03.02.03
I've been thinking a lot about the idea of Ragged Robin writing The Invisibles, and I wanted to post some theories/speculation about that element of the book.

One of the major things I'm having trouble reconciling is how exactly Robin writing herself into the story is consistent with other events. For most of the events it's easy, but one line has me perplexed, the panel where Robin "saves" Jolly Roger from death, and says that in her version of the story, Jolly Roger won't die. This is confusing for me for a number of reasons.

Thinking about this for a while, I developed a theory that would account for some of those discrepancies I pointed out above:

In 1988, Kay was born, and she lived an uneventful life until 2005, when she begins to use a machine that allows her to experience the simulated reality of a fiction, specifically "The Invisibles." The Invis of her reality is a book written by writer, Kirk Morrison, aka King Mob, based on his own experiences from 1994-2000, including his experiences interacting with Ragged Robin, a time traveller from 2012.

Seeing that she is similar to this Robin from the story, Kay becomes obsessed with the character, and goes into the liquid chamber in an effort to become an Invisible, like her hero, Ragged Robin. She begins to dress like, and wear the makeup that Robin from the text wears, and it becomes an obsession.

At this time, Robin becomes one with the story, and manipulates it to her own accord, just like The Harlequinade do in the real text. Because she is at a higher level of existence than the characters who are trapped in their 3D world, she can do what she wants (same as the Harlequinade, who are in a 4D plane, can manipulate those of us in the 3D world). In the reality of The Invisibles, she sees a flaw. When writing about the events of Black Science II, Mob realized how implausible it was for everyone to walk out of the facility alive, so instead of tacking Roger's death onto the ending of the book (as happened in reality), he uses it as the ending to Black Science II, where it has more dramatic weight. Robin doesn't like this, and as a result, she manipulates the action back to how it really happened, and in the process, returns into reality.

This brought up the question of why Robin would save Jolly Roger, considering that in the book as we read it, they seemed to be something of rivals for KM's affection. However, going with the idea that she is reading KM's account of the events, it's logical to think that Mob would leave out any conflict between Robin and Roger, and as a result, Kay would not feel any animosity towards Roger, and would want to save her.

Throughout the series, Morrison presented certain events from the perspective of those who experienced (Last Temptation of Jack, Boy's Story, etc.), and it's odd that he would choose to present the events of Black Science II from Robin's perspective considering she wasn't even there when the events occurred. I think the reason he did this was to show that you don't have to be there to have something affect you, the mere act of reading the story was experience enough to change Robin, a theme he goes back to later.

So, Kay continues to play the role of Ragged Robin, the Invisible, and it eventually consumes her, and gets her placed in an insane asylum. It's here that her reality and the reality of the book begin to merge. Robin meets Mister Six from the text, and eventually meets Mason, who rescues her from the institution, and then "everything became a film." Kay becomes an Invisibles in her time, and eventually meets up with all the characters from the book, and then fulfills her destiny by going back in time, where she plays the role of Ragged Robin, a role that she has already heard about in Mob's novel. This could be why she experiences Deja Vu in Volume I, she's already lived it all already.

What's the point of all this? I think it's the first major break from reality that Morrison presents, and a precursor to the more esoteric events of Volume III. It's the first presentation of The Invisibles as a game, and everyone in it as playing a role.

Thematically, it ties into the end of Volume III brilliantly. At the end of Volume III, when Jack says "your sentence is up," the reader is "free" from the story, but can never really escape it. By reading the book, the reader is forever changed, and has evolved beyond the dualism of The Invisibles at Volume I, and gained a new perspective on the world, just like the characters did. In this respect, every person who reads the book is just like Robin. They've become part of it, and find the book intertwining with the reality of their life.

The idea that this girl's entire life is altered because of a book is a perfect tie in with the fact that Morrison has altered the reader's life. Robin's experience in the tank is symbolic of what the reader goes through as they read the book, and when Dane presents the badge to the reader at the end of 3.2, he's pointing out that you've been changed, and that The Invisibles is real.

Robin writing the thing is also crucial to the series becuase it lends it a reality, and provides a guide for the reader, for how to become invisible. Robin wanted to become like The Invisibles so much that she started dressing and acting like the characters, she changed her mind, so that she was Ragged Robin. Morrison is advocating the reader to open up their minds, and evolve like the characters do, to "play the role" of the characters in reality, just like Robin does in her reality.

Tied in with the Dane scene at the end of 3.2, it strains the lines between fiction and reality. Kay and the girl from 3.2 both exist in a world closer to our reality than that of The Invisibles, and they both see characters from fiction intrude onto their reality. Morrison is saying that The Invisibles are real, becuase it's changed you, and something that's not real couldn't change you.

When I first read it, I found that element of the story merely confusing, but the more I think about, the more it becomes the perfect means to plant the seeds for Volume III in the brain of the reader. The mere fact that I last read that section in November, and four months later, I'm still thinking about it is fact enough to prove that.

So, any thoughts on the issue, or your theories about how her writing the narrative connects with the rest of the work?
 
 
dlotemp
00:23 / 04.02.03
In general.....you got it.

Also remember that some of Robin's reflections could be part of her collision with the Supercontext, where we all get the end we desire. I always figured that her version of the story were Jolly Roger survives is her Supercontext reality.

But yes, RR becomes a simalcrum of the reader who enters the story and rewrites it. The story becomes you and you become one with the story.
 
 
rizla mission
14:46 / 04.02.03
Nothing much to add right now except -

Cool interpretation. Nice one.
 
 
--
16:17 / 04.02.03
h'mm, I always assumed that "The Invisibles" book Ragged Robin talked about was the one Sir Miles had written. This clears things up somewhat...
 
 
Tamayyurt
17:31 / 04.02.03
Seeing that she is similar to this Robin from the story, Kay becomes obsessed with the character, and goes into the liquid chamber in an effort to become an Invisible, like her hero, Ragged Robin. She begins to dress like, and wear the makeup that Robin from the text wears, and it becomes an obsession.

I don't know that there was a Robin in the book Robin read and got inspired by. There are differences between the novel she read and the comic we're reading. For example, in that story Jolly Roger dies. I don't think there was an Invisible called Ragged Robin in Kirk Morrison's novel. I think Robin rewrote the story but added herself into it.

A real world/hypathetical example: I'm now inspired by the Invisibles comic (written by grant morrison based on his own experiences from 1994-2000). So I start acting Invisible. In 2005 I write a novel based on the comic, I use the same title cause "it feels right" only I add myself into the narrative. Maybe Impulsivelad is a member of Jim Crow's cell (a sort of sidekick.) a background character. I get bolder and by in the middle of my novel (second series) Imp'll play a vital role and get sent up to the supercontext and so on.

I wonder if grant morrison would be as forgiving as kirk morrison if I did something like that and published it?
 
 
PatrickMM
19:52 / 04.02.03
On it being the Sir Miles book, I thought that too when I first saw that Sir Miles had written a book called The Invisibles, but I don't think that works, because Miles' experience would be extremely removed from the section of the narrative that Robin is rewriting. There's no way that Miles could have interacted with the team at Dulce, and as a result, there would be no reason for Robin to alter that section of the narrative, since it wouldn't have existed in a version of Invis written by Sir Miles.

I don't know that there was a Robin in the book Robin read and got inspired by. There are differences between the novel she read and the comic we're reading. For example, in that story Jolly Roger dies. I don't think there was an Invisible called Ragged Robin in Kirk Morrison's novel. I think Robin rewrote the story but added herself into it.

This was my original impression of the plot, that Robin literally added a character in, but I'm not sure that it fits in with a lot of the plot elements. Like, if King Mob wrote the book, why he would exclude Robin, a character who's so important to the narrative (The only explanation for that they have is that Robin knows if Mob writes her into the book, she'll never become who she is, and as a result, she tells him to leave her out of the book). However, I don't think that holds together completely. I think it's important to keep in mind that Robin didn't alter history when she went back in time, it had always existed that way, and she was just fulfilling her role. I really wish we knew more about the book that Robin is rewriting. It's extremely vague in the current narrative.

A real world/hypathetical example: I'm now inspired by the Invisibles comic (written by grant morrison based on his own experiences from 1994-2000). So I start acting Invisible. In 2005 I write a novel based on the comic, I use the same title cause "it feels right" only I add myself into the narrative. Maybe Impulsivelad is a member of Jim Crow's cell (a sort of sidekick.) a background character. I get bolder and by in the middle of my novel (second series) Imp'll play a vital role and get sent up to the supercontext and so on.

Interesting, and it sounds valid. The only issue I have with is this would imply that there was a time where Robin did not participate in any of the series' events, which would be inconsistent with time as defined by the series.

I wonder if grant morrison would be as forgiving as kirk morrison if I did something like that and published it?

Seeing as how it would further tie The Invisibles to our reality, I think he'd love it.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
23:11 / 04.02.03
Speculation: If Sir Miles and Ragged Robin both write a book called "The Invisibles"...

...who says they didn't write the same book?

The "book" in this instance symbolizes (or just is, since reality and narrative, symbol and the thing-itself are so blended together in every Invisibles discussion) the 5D supersolid that is the universe. Both alter it to align with their wishes. Both are altered BY it. Both fall into it.

And, as impulsivelad and dlotemp have alluded to and as I (and many of you, I'd wager) have experienced, hence a hypersigil which turns many of the readers into superheroes on a digitally corrupt world &c.

(You know, I have forgotten that Kirk Morrison also wrote an Invisibles... where in the series did we learn that? or are we talking about the Grant Morrison/Kirk Morrison reality swap?)
 
 
--
02:30 / 05.02.03
Perfect Tommy makes a good point. To my knowledge "The Invisibles" book that Robin reads, we never find out the author's name. Are you assuming it's King Mob writing as Kirk Morrison? And wouldn't the writer include the bit where Robin says she's from the future and wrote herself into the story... gah, I'm confused.

And what's all this about Jolly Roger dying in Dulce? She gets shot but that would'nt necesarrily kill her, it looks like she got hit in the shoulder. It would hurt, yeah, but it doesn't mean she would have died (hell, KM got shot in the shoulder in the first Black Science and made it out ok).
 
 
Tamayyurt
04:24 / 05.02.03
Yeah, but Jolly Roger seems to be dying then cut to future Robin saying something like "I don't want her to die in my story." and the next think we see is Jolly Roger shot but not mortally so. So we can conclude that Robin changed that aspect of the story.
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:03 / 05.02.03
I didn’t think that Kirk Morrison had written a book called ‘The Invisibles’ either –what with the Killing Moon, I kinda assumed that the KI- MO- motif that we see in KIng MOb would be the case with any other books Kirk Morrison might have written (and I think that there’s some reference to him travelling on the money, that’s when he meets Edith, yes?)
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:38 / 05.02.03
I think it's explained somewhere near the start of Series Three that Sir Miles wrote the Invisibles in the 60s, I think just before he joins the Outer Church, whereas in series 2 we're led to jump to the conculsion that it's King Mob. Kirk Morrison only writes two crappy horror novels IIRC.

I don't think we ever find out what Sir Miles' version of the Invisibles is about. Does he go outside the universe and see the events unfolding as Fanny does with her life story in series 1?

If Sir Miles is the writer of 'The Invisibles', and King Mob is the avatar of the writer, is the shit he goes through in terms of being tortured and then having way bad Karma in the second series, to being shot at the end, a sign of Miles' guilt for killing Beryl and that fox? Is King Mob's rejoining Robin in the supercontext Sir Miles forgiving himself?
 
 
Baz Auckland
16:58 / 05.02.03
I always thought that Sir Miles wrote 'The Invisibles' about the Golden Age ones, or whoever he learned about through Beryl. Kay writing herself into the story was her making up the history of the Invisibles after the 1960s.

Maybe she created all the characters from King Mob to Dane, etc. etc., in her story, then found out it was all true, and her creations had come to life?
 
 
--
16:59 / 05.02.03
Kirk Morrison wrote "Dis" and "lord Worm" (wasn't Dis, besides a reference to Hell, the name of one of those concentration camps for Dissidents mentioned in Volume 2?)

Wow, leave it to old Sir miles to totally fuck up another Invisibles conversation.
 
 
diz
17:23 / 05.02.03
The only issue I have with is this would imply that there was a time where Robin did not participate in any of the series' events, which would be inconsistent with time as defined by the series.

i disagree wholeheartedly. it's entirely consistent with the view of time as defined by the series. time in The Invisibles is an illusion shaped and re-shaped by the perceptions of the viewer. it is a tool by which this universe experiences itself in fragmented, subjective terms. viewed from outside, everything happens simultaneously and nothing happens at all. time and space and identity are entirely illusory and often paradoxical. multiple contradictory things are true at the same time, at all times, because the contradictions only exist in our minds, which are themselves illusions.

Ragged Robin wrote herself into the story of the Invisibles, and she was not a part of the story before she did that. however, she was also always a part of the story from the very beginning. the fact of her being both a part of the story and not a part of the story is and is not itself a part of the story.

this entire thread is rooted in the illusory belief that anything happened at all, to anyone. it didn't, exactly. all that happened was that the universe played a game, with itself, and the rules of that game were re-written and re-written and re-written again in mid-play. the nature of the players and the board were in constant flux. and, if you're following Wittgenstein on this, it's impossible for anyone to really invent a game and play it by themselves in such a way that it has meaning.

you cannot uncover what "really" happened, because reality in the context of the Invisibles is not fixed.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:58 / 05.02.03
I figured Sir Miles wrote a book outing the Golden Age Invisibles and history leading up to the 60's.

Consider that when Mason got Kay out of the asylum he was discussing a movie script for a movie called "the Invisibles"

Also consider that THE INVISIBLE game was on the verge of being released when robin tests the time suit.

Perhaps haps the point was that we don't know who exactly wrote a book called "the Invisibles" perhaps it was Grant Morrison.

Did you nocie that Kay wrote Jolly Roger surviving the events of Black Science II but perhaps Kay was commenting that in her version Jolly Roger wouldn't die at the Cathedral. Also interesting was that Roger Died in Robin's absence.

Also; Maybe Helga wrote "the Invisibles" she was the other writer and King Mob devoted himself to promoting it through his Technoccult INC.

just some thoughts...
 
 
Perfect Tommy
23:17 / 05.02.03
Oh, hey... on the release of the game: Everyone writes their version of the narrative in 2012, because they're participating in the game (ergo, Supercontext). (If you believe that playing of an interactive game is a sort of creation of a narrative--I think GM has said "Everything is going to be games" often enough that we know he believes it.) Robin and Miles were just precocious and did it the old-fashioned text way.

I like how I continue to slap my forehead and say "Duh!" three years after the fact...
 
 
PatrickMM
14:47 / 06.02.03
Oh, hey... on the release of the game: Everyone writes their version of the narrative in 2012, because they're participating in the game (ergo, Supercontext). (If you believe that playing of an interactive game is a sort of creation of a narrative--I think GM has said "Everything is going to be games" often enough that we know he believes it.) Robin and Miles were just precocious and did it the old-fashioned text way.

About a game, I always thought that what Robin does when she writes herself in was closer to playing a role in a videogame, and altering the environment through controls, than it was to reading a book, and simply reimagining things. She's essentially playing the ultimate virtual reality simulation, using a machine that allows her to manipulate the world in any way she chooses.

And talking so much about this part of the book has me a bit annoyed that we're two years away from 2005, and we've got no chamber like the one Robin uses, no cool looking red suits, and no young Robin wandering around.
 
 
Don't make eye contact
06:44 / 07.02.03
The idea of writing yourself into a role is used in Promethea too.

It's also an interesting point that Grant used writing the Invisibles as a spell that affected his own life like Robin did.
 
 
■
19:10 / 16.04.03
Hmm. excuse me for newbness, but I think we do have something like the chamber Kay is using.
You're reading it.
Remember that fictionsuits/timesuits are viewed through a cultural context, and that even if our culture doesn't look quite as snazzy as Robin's, a board like this works pretty darn well and seems to be being used for similar purposes.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:04 / 18.04.03
< You're reading it.
Remember that fictionsuits/timesuits are viewed through a cultural context, and that even if our culture doesn't look quite as snazzy as Robin's, a board like this works pretty darn well and seems to be being used for similar purposes. >>

I could defenitely see that being the case. In the tank, Robin rewrote some of what she had previously thought about The Invisibles, and changed events to make them more consistent with what she wanted to be in the story. We do the exact same thing when someone presents a new take on some of the events in the story. Reading that would alter the way you view events, and alter your perception of the text itself.
 
  
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