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Michael 'Creepy Lying Bastard' Jackson meets Martin Bashir

 
  

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The Puck
21:31 / 06.02.03
Two things not mentioned yet

1) the incredably creepy ease that MJ glossed over the missing mothers, i mean who the fuck gives away there child "as a presant", that plastic hiding something, all im saying is i bet the contracters at neverland are given VERY specific instructions about where to dig.

2) any one who has ever fed a child milk will know that sooner or later that child will have to stop to breath. "giggle, he loves his milk" yes he hasnt got much of a choice now its inflating his tiny lungs you incompiant shaking freak

oh and it looks as if bashier has shot him self in the foot with this one, his interview technique reminded me of a 16 year old virgin fumbling with a busty girls bra, he knew the good stuff was there just wasnt shure how to get at it. Also what celebraty is going to let him even near him now no more dianna like exclusives for you.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
22:56 / 06.02.03
Worst still the tape of the show has passed into the hands of the lawyer for the kid Jackson settled with several years ago, who has passed it on to the authorities.

I'd be very surprised if Jackson's lawyers had left the way open for any litigation or contesting of the settlement after the fact; it it's anything like even the most basic work settlement, surely a condition of little Jordy getting the dosh would be that he and his family can never again press charges against Jackson...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:43 / 07.02.03
Uri Gellar was on TV standing up for his close friend Michael Jackson, and of course managed to mention himself more times than Michael.

I think Jackson needs breasts bigger than the sun!!

It's being repeated again on ITV2 tonight for anyone with digital TV who has managed to miss the career wreck thus far.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:25 / 07.02.03
I didn't see it. I'm not entirely sure I want to, either.

But a point raised by bjacques earlier on- MJ may be nuts, but his record company et al are all complicit in keeping him this way.

Being surrounded by yes-men is incredibly unhealthy- just look how crap Stevie Wonder ended up getting as a result.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:03 / 07.02.03
(2/7/03, 7 a.m. ET) -- A California lawyer has requested an inquiry into Michael Jackson's admission that he shares his bed with children. Jackson's comments were made public Thursday night (February 6) during 20/20's airing of the British documentary Living With Michael Jackson.


Attorney Gloria Allred has filed a written request to the child-welfare services division of Santa Barbara County, where Jackson and his three children live, asking the department to interview any "child who has been in Mr. Jackson's home and/or bedroom without the presence of their parents."

In Living With Michael Jackson, the pop star admitted to frequently having children sleep over at his Neverland Valley Ranch, often in his own bed. "Why can't you share your bed? The most loving thing to do, is to share your bed with someone," Jackson told interviewer Martin Bashir. The singer, who paid a multimillion dollar sum to settle a sex-abuse case in 1993--in which he was accused of assaulting a 14-year old boy--told Bashir he had no compunction about the appropriateness of his sleepovers. "It's very right. It's very loving, that's what the world needs now, more love, more heart," he said.

Child-welfare services personnel have declined to make statements to the press regarding the inquiry, except to say that each complaint received was first reviewed before deciding whether to proceed with an official inquiry.

This hoopla over Jackson's sleeping habits is the latest scandal surrounding Jackson and children. On Living With Michael Jackson, Jackson addresses the controversy that occurred when he dangled his newborn over a Berlin hotel balcony in November.

BASHIR: You've had a tough week this week haven't you? Because the media have been accusing you of being irresponsible with your children.

JACKSON: The media's wrong. I love my children, I was holding my son tight and strong. I didn't want...why would I throw a baby over a balcony? That's the dumbest, stupidest story I've ever heard. I love my children. They know I love them.

The conversation continues:

BASHIR: What do you say?

JACKSON: And two minutes before that they saw the baby, Prince did the same thing, I had him in my arms.


BASHIR: I saw that.

JACKSON: I've done it, you know, I got them strong.

BASHIR: Were you just overexcited?

JACKSON: No! They were chanting they want to see the baby so I wanted to show them the baby. I'm not going to let him fall.

BASHIR: But you didn't really show them the baby 'cause the baby was covered.

JACKSON: Yes they did, they got to feel his spirit. That's good enough and he was responding. He started like singing (baby crying noise).

On Wednesday (February 5), Jackson released a statement in which he said he feels "more betrayed than perhaps ever before" by Bashir's "misrepresentation" of his life.

"Martin Bashir persuaded me to trust him that his would be an honest and fair portrayal of my life and told me that he was 'the man that turned [Princess] Diana's life around'," Jackson said in the statement. "I am surprised that a professional journalist would compromise his integrity by deceiving me in this way. I feel betrayed that someone, who had got to know my children, my staff, and me, whom I let into my heart and told the truth, could then sacrifice the trust I placed in him and produce this terrible and unfair program. Everyone who knows me will know the truth, which is that my children come first in my life and that I would never harm any child."

-- Donna Robinson, New York, and Sofia Fernandez, Los Angeles
 
 
that
18:26 / 07.02.03
Anyone know if this is on again at all?
 
 
Turk
05:13 / 08.02.03
In the UK it's being repeated a few times on ITV2.

Personally I do feel sympathy for him, clearly he has any number of severe personality disorders stemming from his childhood and as with great and troubled artists of the past there are people willing to take advantage of him.
Not that it excuses anything shown in the documentary, but it is still puerile, vicious and easy to hate him for it. In similar realms to the Daily Mail mentality. I don't know if he really is a loving person or not, or whether he does molest children, but he is certainly ill and unhealthily surrounded by enablers.

In the end, we all have much bigger things to worry about, war, poverty, famine, the big things that affect people's live.
This mass self-righteous outrage-a-thon at Jackson is extremely self-indulgent. I suppose it makes us feel better about ourselves, I'm angry so I'm good!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:03 / 08.02.03
"Martin Bashir persuaded me to trust him that his would be an honest and fair portrayal of my life and told me that he was 'the man that turned [Princess] Diana's life around',"

Note to Jackson: she died.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
00:51 / 17.02.03
Is it just me, or was the pseudo-religious ecstasy some of his fans displayed highly creepy? I'm thinking of the girl in Berlin who collapsed in the parking lot after hugging Jackson. What the hell is that? Is this a mental disorder? Surely there has to be an explanation?
 
 
Quireboy
18:08 / 23.02.03
God this was a creepy programme ... but Bashir is a terrible journalist. He's the only interviewer that makes Tim Sebastien (of Hard Talk on BBC News 24) look tough. He's as much as a parody of himself as Jacko is.

Did he bother to do any research? Why did he leave so many questions that were begging to be asked unsaid?

He didn't challenge Jacko about his surgery at all. OK Jackson's claim that his appearance was largely the result of puberty was clearly ridiculous and showed he was either dellusional or a compulsive liar, but it's about time someone took him to task about his alleged vitilligo. That disease simply does not present itself in the way Jacko claims. Even if it did, why has he not used dark make up instead of white make up?

Then Jacko says - contradicting his explantion for his skin tone - that making himself white is no different from white people getting a sun tan. And Bashir doesn't even challenge him on this - hello! The guy's Asian, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't know what a big deal skin lightening is in the black and asian communities. This is arguably the biggest African American star - and youth icon - in history who has such negative self-image that he bleaches his skin - what message does that give to his young black fans, and what a sad refelection of the way the media/society holds up whiteness as the beauty ideal.

Then there's those kids. Does anyone really beleive they're Jackson's? What are the chances of a black man - I know you have to remind yourself that under all that surgery and make up he still is - having three white children - especially when one of them allegedly has a black mother as well? It must be statistically remote if not impossible.

And of course the child abuse allegations. Jacko really came across as a preferential paedophile - i.e. one obsessed with a particular age/type of child, in Jacko's case 10 to 12-year-old boys. It was particularly creepy that the boy had cancer, because paedophiles have long targetted sick/terminally ill children because they're so emotionally vulnerable. And what was it, $20m to settle the Chandler case out of court - that's a lot of money to keep a case from going to court if you've really got nothing to hide.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:06 / 24.02.03
www.thesmokinggun.com has the transcript of the Chandler kid's testimony, and it's interesting to see quotes attributed to Jackson that match exactly with statements in the Bashir interview (e.g. "Just because everyone else says something is wrong doesn't mean that it is..."). It's a ten-year-old document that has an even greater ring of truth to it now...
 
 
Peach Pie
07:28 / 26.02.03
I believed that Jackson was innocent beofre I watched this documentary. Seeing him deny that he had had his face changed and bleached without so much as blinking made me think different.
 
 
Peach Pie
07:32 / 26.02.03
P.S. Quire: it made me smirk when he compared the miscarriage of justice he had suffered with that of that other great victim of wrongful accusation - O.J. Simpson.
 
 
Rev. Wright
13:38 / 26.02.03
The two most disturbing aspects of the documentary for me were:

Micheal attempting to feed his baby (blanket), whilst obviously aggitated. I found this profoundly disturbing. It seemed to be an act to persuade others rather than a paternal act.

The way in which he and a 12yr old boy came across in body language and voice. This was the only time that Micheal is shown being relaxed and tender around another person. It was this footage that made me really question his sexuality and preference.

Has anyone seen the follow up: Micheal jackson Interview, the footage they didn't want you to see.

Well it was interesting to hear Martin Bashir being hypocritical in his portrayal of Micheal he offered originally. Heard on the camera Micheal had running during the interviewsgiving compliments to Jacko. I can imagine this being a tactic to get close to his subject, I suspect from having worked in documentary myself and knowing all the underhand ploys. It did however create a drastic challenge to the original documentary, surely affecting public opinion.

What do you think about the second part?
 
 
Peach Pie
13:15 / 27.02.03
There were also some sinister parallels with the Jonathan King case:-

1) King maintains even to this day that he has done nothing wrong.
2) He used the claim that children liked his attention to justify his behaviour.
3) He bought the friendship of young boys by showering them with gifts.
4) He went out of his way to ingratiate himself to his victims' families.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:58 / 01.03.03
Well, apart from admitting for the first time that he'd had even minor surgery to alter his face (big fucking deal), I didn't see anything in this dicumentary that anyone with even a passing familiarity with Jackson and his lifestyle didn't already know - certainly nothing that should've caused so many outraged headlines.

And Bashir was appalling - like pin says, the staged 'disturbed walking on the beach at sunset' was pathetic. He clearly realised he'd completely dropped the ball for over eight months (eight months of unprecedented access to the subject), and tried to edit in some drama.

What about some questions about Jackson's vanishing millions? Or about the failure of his last album combined with his accusations of racism against Tommy Mottola? The stories going around that he's so much in debt to his record company because they want his share of the rights to the Beatles back catalogue? No questions at all. Instead we get three minutes devoted to the fact that he mistimed his entrance onstage at some German awards ceremony.

Yes, we know he's odd... although I'm finding all the 'shocked and disturbed' comments about his oddness - not his relationship with children, his or otherwise, just his personal peculiarities - really quite embarrassing here, of all places... quite the counter-cultural community, aren't we? Presumably it's cool when Grant Morrison writes a bizarre character ("Crazy Jane rocks! All those personalities - each one with a different super power!"), but it's all creepy in real life, yuckity yuck yuck. So he's had surgery to alter his appearance? So fucking what if he doesn't want to admit it to anyone? Oh, but he's in the public eye, so we have to make him admit it? What bullshit. And saying that just because he lied about that means he'd lie about anything is an utterly facile comment.

Was about to ask myself why every post I've written recently is this scathing... but the answer's pretty obvious. Certain of my favourite people in the world aside, I'm increasingly getting sick to death of this website and the institutionalised bent of some of the posters and almost all of the discussions. I've only come here to check my private messages the last few months, and ended up staying and browsing out of inertia.

Fuck this for a game of soldiers. I'm out of here. Any of you want to contact me, email me and I'll bung you an address/phone number. The first couple of years were great, see y'all around...
 
 
Ganesh
17:22 / 01.03.03
Nice. Choosing a forum other the Conversation for one's periodic 'Barbelith's shit now, I'm outta here' rant really adds an element of freshness. Thanks for choosing my thread for your goodbyes, Jack.

I think there's no doubt that Bashir acted extremely duplicitously in order to get the footage he did. Personally, I reckon it wasn't so much a case of dropping the journalistic ball but realising, fairly cynically, that he could only be even mildly 'challenging' towards the end of his stay, as Jackson and his staff would likely terminate filming. It was faintly risible that he then subsequently maintained it was only latterly that he realised 'something was disturbing me'. Slack interviewing, certainly, but partly understandable if the latitude for 'difficult' questioning was indeed that limited.

Since Barbelith presents itself in terms of subcultural debate rather than "countercultural" anything, this is a perfectly valid topic for discussion - and, even those of us initially brought here by Grant Morrison's work are, presumably, able to appreciate that the world of 'Doom Patrol' does not necessarily map onto our own - or perhaps I'm betraying some notional 'revolutionary' principle by expressing this?

I think the scene where Jackson lies about plastic surgery (as opposed to telling Bashir it's none of his fucking business) is relevant, because it diminishes his credibility as a truthful individual. Doesn't mean he'd "lie about anything" but it indicates he's perfectly able to lie repeatedly in response to a direct question in front of millions of potential witnesses.

I read an interesting article a couple of weeks ago which postulated that Jackson represented, in some ways, the ultimate end-point of capitalism: if one is wealthy enough, one effectively has the 'right' to do anything one damn well pleases; moral dimensions collapse beneath the weight of one's accumulated moolah, and any ethical dilemma can be solved by flinging credit at it.

Cameron: I hadn't read the original transcripts of the Jordy Chandler statement but yeah, it's interesting that the same phrase crops up. Hardly evidence, but slightly disturbing nonetheless.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:24 / 07.03.03
Thought some of you might be interested in this article.
 
 
bio k9
07:30 / 12.03.03
Interesting article about the events surrounding the first scandal.

Was Michael Jackson Framed? The Untold Story by Mary A. Fischer (G.Q. October, 1994).
 
 
HCE
18:59 / 16.06.05
Ganesh's point about the awareness he believes these children have about there being a transaction of some sort taking place is an interesting one. Do you think that children of that age (12-14) engage in other transactions with adults? I'm thinking of the transactions kids have with parents, teachers, other children. "If I behave in manner X I will get reward Y," is something I remember pretty clearly from that age. I wonder why you find this set of transactions to be so particularly disturbing? Is it because the adult, the person with greater power in the relationship, is having his emotional needs met at the expense of the child? What expense do you think that child is incurring?

There was a question upthread about the childhood experiences of people posting here. I remember being that age very well, and no, I wouldn't have found anything strange about interlacing my fingers with those of an adult. I had many adult friends whose company I enjoyed and felt very physically comfortable with them. The difference is that I don't think any of them ever had any confusion about their own adulthood, and about the developmental gaps between us.
 
 
Ganesh
19:19 / 16.06.05
Ganesh's point about the awareness he believes these children have about there being a transaction of some sort taking place is an interesting one. Do you think that children of that age (12-14) engage in other transactions with adults? I'm thinking of the transactions kids have with parents, teachers, other children. "If I behave in manner X I will get reward Y," is something I remember pretty clearly from that age. I wonder why you find this set of transactions to be so particularly disturbing? Is it because the adult, the person with greater power in the relationship, is having his emotional needs met at the expense of the child? What expense do you think that child is incurring?

I find it disturbing because the primary transaction appears to be taking place between adults ie. between Jackson and the child's parents. I think the "expense", in terms of detrimental effects on the child himself (because it is always a 'him') is difficult to quantify. I suspect it's partly a feeling that one ought to behave in ways one might not otherwise behave in (because one has been 'paid for'), and partly the feeling of loss these children almost invariably feel when they're 'dropped', having passed their mid-teens. This is the pattern.

There was a question upthread about the childhood experiences of people posting here. I remember being that age very well, and no, I wouldn't have found anything strange about interlacing my fingers with those of an adult. I had many adult friends whose company I enjoyed and felt very physically comfortable with them. The difference is that I don't think any of them ever had any confusion about their own adulthood, and about the developmental gaps between us.

That's nice. I suspect there are differences, here, between male and female prepubertal children. At the age of 13, 14, I would've done almost anything in the world to avoid sitting on the edge of a bed, hand in hand with an adult male to whom I was unrelated, confirming on international television that we "loved" each other and freely shared bedspace.

Perhaps I'm weird that way.
 
 
haus of fraser
11:08 / 20.06.05
***Utter Threadrot, but this made me laugh...***

Was about to ask myself why every post I've written recently is this scathing... but the answer's pretty obvious. Certain of my favourite people in the world aside, I'm increasingly getting sick to death of this website and the institutionalised bent of some of the posters and almost all of the discussions. I've only come here to check my private messages the last few months, and ended up staying and browsing out of inertia.

Fuck this for a game of soldiers. I'm out of here. Any of you want to contact me, email me and I'll bung you an address/phone number. The first couple of years were great, see y'all around...


jack the bodiless march 03....

**threadrot ends**
 
  

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