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Leaving Barbelith

20:48 / 31.01.03

Thank you to all of you for the discussions that I have enjoyed here in Barbelith, but as I said from the beginning, I want to do magick, not talk about it.

Thank you especially to the people who sent me private messages encouraging me when I was pushing the boundaries. :-)

I won't be posting on Barbelith any more, but you can catch up with me at http://mike.jtbc.net any time, and I always welcome email at mike@jtbc.net

I will leave you with these thoughts:

"There are two modes of acquiring knowledge, namely by reasoning and experience. Reasoning draws a conclusion and makes us grant the conclusion, but does not make the conclusion certain, nor does it remove doubt so that the mind may rest on the intuition of truth, unless the mind discovers it by the path of experience."
-Roger Bacon

"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience."
-John Locke

"What one has not experienced one will never understand in print."
-Isadora Duncan

O, and read Richard Bach - Jonathan Livingstone Seagull

Farewell,
Mike Lewis

07:56 / 01.02.03

The great thing about Barbelith is that most of the regular contributors *push boundaries.* You posted some good stuff, and you will be missed. Your point about any kind of dichotomy between practise and dialogue - as well as conjecture that Barbelith has struck a poor balance - is still as poorly reasoned and communicated as the first time you made it. It's a shame to draw attention to that thread as a parting shot, as it's one of the only times in which the material you've posted has been glaringly sub-standard.

17:12 / 02.02.03

I have received an email asking me to make one last attempt to clarify this issue. So, true to form, here I am. ;-)

It is my intention to get across to as many of you as possible the significance of the fact that I believe that my error was in my communication and not in my reasoning.

Imagine trying to explain chocolate to a Martian.

Perhaps you might start by saying that it is derived from cocoa, but of course he doesn't know what cocoa is, so you try explaining that cocoa comes from a type of plant, but he doesn't know what you mean, and you keep going, and he doesn't understand because you can't find a common understanding. You need some concept that you both share.

17:28 / 02.02.03

Stop talking about it, because your mind doesn't need to know about it. Start doing it, because your heart really wants to know. It was your heart that brought you to magick in the first place, but your mind pushed in and now you have to be strong enough to withdraw your ego, to accept not knowing, so that your heart can have a turn.

17:31 / 02.02.03

I've said it every way I can and I know I haven't said it well enough. I know that there are a few people in Barbelith who understand but that most of the people in Barbelith don't. I just hope that there is someone among the few who know who is presumptious enough to speak for me, and to keep trying to get the message across...

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:05 / 02.02.03

I have no idea who you are, but good luck with the magick, M.

20:37 / 02.02.03

What you're saying isn't difficult to grasp. Nobody is debating that experience is important.

Again: you've misunderstood the medium. We have very valid reasons for not talking openly about experiences. This is a public message board, and we cannot assume that we will be read by people who have good intentions towards us. Many of us are at different stages of development. These two factors alone explain why some of us do not reveal details of our private practise. Therefore this is a place best suited to talking about theory and technique. I can see nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I can also see nothing wrong with a purely academic interest in the occult: this forum is broad enough for many perspectives.

Your case is poorly reasoned because you have no idea who is on this forum, and you only see the side of ourselves that we choose to present. Furthermore, you have chosen not to supply material from people's posts in support of your case. However, your communication has improved no end since the original thread.

Regardless of these differences: I pray you will be blessed in your practise. If we do not read you again, have a good life.

21:18 / 02.02.03

Well, I don't think there's anything wrong in talking - I started the thread on Magical Secrecy to discuss some of the difficulties we might have in discussing private stuff in such a public place. I agree with you, Mike, in that gabbing incessantly could become as much an attachment and limitation as anything. However, I odn't think this is true of the majority of Barbelith posters.

I'd add that I think the place has been a great spur for me personally though I've only been here for 6 months or so. Anyway Mike, shame you're off, best wishes with your practice.

10:55 / 03.02.03

All my best to all of you...

Keep Up The Great Work

17:55 / 03.02.03

S'funny.

I stopeed browsing Barbelith a good while ago, for similar reasons. Felt I had strong enough instinct, didn't really need to talk about it.

But I found, without talking about it, I stopped practicing, and dropped down to my usual background 'luckiness'. So here I am again, looking for ideas.

Have fun Mike, see you around I'm sure.

The Photographer in Blowup

20:10 / 03.02.03

Never had a chance to meet you mate, but i'll sure miss your presence here.

Wish you all the best life has to offer.

Son of the Soil (aka Joe Dirt)

21:09 / 03.02.03

.: does anyone else find it odd that evy and joe appeared at almost the same time - then played off aainst each other?

not that we are throwing innuendos out there. just odd, mike and joe

bye bye evy - all the best - you will be missed - sorry we didn't meet up with your expectations :.

22:19 / 03.02.03

Personally I feel that practice and dialectic are equally important . These ideas must evolve and grow so that they won't languish and fade off into the oblivion of archaicism. The practice re-enforces existent ideas, and informs the emergence of new ones which, in turn, breed more novel practice. Similarly, those who have the practical experiences often are unable to process them without recourse to dialog - "have you ever experienced this?", "what does this symbol mean?", am I going insane?".

To each his own, always... But to dismiss this metaforum as nonpragmatic or an impediment to magickal progress is just silly. Perhaps more accurate and honest for Mike would be an admission of hermeticism or an antisocial streak, or even too much mutability when exposed to the ideas of others.

My 2 & 3 bits.

Devil's Avocado

10:20 / 05.02.03

not that we are throwing innuendos out there. just odd, mike and joe

Just to clarify; Mike is not Joe, though I must admit a strange sense of Deja Vue reading Mike's comments. From what I've experienced of this board, particularly during Joe's posts it does seem to me that there are members who's cleverness, and typing, seem to have got the better of them.

Considering the intuitive nature of magick, it does seem curious to me that so much stock seems to be placed on the ability to construct a gramatically correct argument, rather than on sharing personal experiences,(though I am aware that this raises many issuses of intimacy and trust).

For me this is the difference between a board which discusses Magick, and a Magickal board. Considering the amount of talented and practical magicians posting here, it seems a crying shame if the intellectual 'dry' approach is to dominate.

I am also extremely sad that evy has left considering the amount she contributed.

14:14 / 05.02.03

I share some of your misgivings about Mike/Evy leaving - same person, btw. It's pity to see contributers leave - however, I think it wouldn't be as strong as space if people weren't challenged. He's given his reasons above, as well as contact details so anyone who wishes to keep in touch can do so.

I thought Mike and Joe were pretty obviously different people coming from very obviously different places.

22:34 / 05.02.03

This is a text only medium. If you're going to use it, use it well. It isn't suited to everyone, which is why I wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

You can create an artificial dichotomy between intelligence and intuition if you wish. I will not join you, because the exercise seems to be a particular waste of energy.