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Happiness, Self-Realisation and Enlightenment

  
 
Mike
19:14 / 24.01.03
I am not always happy, I don't know everything that there is to know about my self, and I am not enlightened.

However:

4. When will the realization of the Self be gained?
When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed, there will be realization of the Self which is the seer.

7. When will the world which is the object seen be removed?
When the mind, which is the cause of all cognition's and of all actions, becomes quiescent, the world will disappear.

10. How will the mind become quiescent?
By the inquiry 'Who am I?'. The thought 'who am I?' will destroy all other thoughts, and like the stick used for stirring the burning pyre, it will itself in the end get destroyed. Then, there will arise Self-realization.

11. What is the means for constantly holding on to the thought 'Who am I?'
When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them, but should inquire: 'To whom do they arise?' It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, "To whom has this thought arisen?". The answer that would emerge would be "To me". Thereupon if one inquires "Who am I?", the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source. When the mind that is subtle goes out through the brain and the sense-organs, the gross names and forms appear; when it stays in the heart, the names and forms disappear. Not letting the mind go out, but retaining it in the Heart is what is called "inwardness" (antar-mukha). Letting the mind go out of the Heart is known as "externalisation" (bahir-mukha). Thus, when the mind stays in the Heart, the 'I' which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will shine. Whatever one does, one should do without the egoity "I". If one acts in that way, all will appear as of the nature of Siva (God).

19. What is non-attachment?
As thoughts arise, destroying them utterly without any residue in the very place of their origin is non-attachment. Just as the pearl-diver ties a stone to his waist, sinks to the bottom of the sea and there takes the pearls, so each one of us should be endowed with non-attachment, dive within oneself and obtain the Self-Pearl.

http://www.allspirit.co.uk/whoami.html
 
 
Mike
19:16 / 24.01.03
Compression:

Whenever your mind is active think to yourself clearly:

"To whom has this thought arisen?"

The answer that would emerge would be "To me".

Thereupon if one inquires "Who am I?", the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent.

It is said that only a quiescent (silent) mind can find enlightenment.
 
 
Mike
19:17 / 24.01.03
Further compression:

Think not with your mind.

Think with your heart.

"We shall never learn to feel and respect our real calling and destiny, unless we have taught ourselves to consider every thing as moonshine, compared with the education of the heart." - Sir Walter Scott
 
 
cusm
20:14 / 24.01.03
This is the problem I have with Enlightenment. If one exists without thought or action, does one truely exist? Certainly, one can bathe in the bliss of such a state, being without thinking on being, self realization through loss of self. But is this bliss not the bliss of death, of unbeing? What a waste of existence to dwell on unexistence, to undo life itself for peace.

I'd rather live. Upon the death of this body, my mind will grow silent and in nothingness shall I be eternally all things and all happiness. I can wait for that sort of enlightenment, thanks. In the mean time, I am, and that is enough. I can be content in my self-realization while I go about the drinking and fucking that is the joys of living, while I still have that option. There is no shame in being. If it is only the journey itself that matters, let it be a colorful one, I say.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
20:18 / 24.01.03
In otherwords, live well and become enlightened in the bardo?
 
 
cusm
20:35 / 24.01.03
Something like that, yea. Don't waste your life trying to become enlightened. The secret you learn from being enlightened is that you should simply live. So I figure, cut to the chase, eh?
 
 
Mike
20:39 / 24.01.03
:-)
 
 
specofdust
21:39 / 24.01.03
Can a person not learn to live a better life though, if they have learned to be enlightened? I would not say i am an enlightened individual, however i do feel that if I ever become enlightened then i will then be able to live my life in a better way and become a much more fulfilled individual.
 
 
Simplist
16:53 / 25.01.03
This is the problem I have with Enlightenment. If one exists without thought or action, does one truely exist? Certainly, one can bathe in the bliss of such a state, being without thinking on being, self realization through loss of self. But is this bliss not the bliss of death, of unbeing? What a waste of existence to dwell on unexistence, to undo life itself for peace.

It's not so much about eliminating though and action, but rather allowing the sense of identity to shift from the "thinker" and "doer" to the context in which thinking and doing arise. After enlightenment, thoughts and actions arise as before, but without the stickiness and attachment that characterized them previously. Which, as spaceofdust speculated, allows thought and action (ie. living) to flow much more freely and spontaneously in the absence of a contracted, conflicted self-system blocking the flow at every turn. As for blissful states of non-being, these may arise from time to time as well, but they too arise in the same wider context as thought and action, and there is (ideally) no more attachment to these "divine" states than to the phenomena of daily living. Ideally. Personally, I'm still working on it. ;-)
 
 
Mike
11:41 / 26.01.03
> i do feel that if I ever become enlightened then i will then be able to live my life in a better way and become a much more fulfilled individual. - specofdust

Then when you learn to live your life in a better way and become a more fulfilled individual, you will become enlightened.
 
 
Mike
11:43 / 26.01.03
Paul Reps - Zen Flesh, Zen Bones
 
 
Seth
14:16 / 26.01.03
I have a real problem with the idea that enlightenment is anything other than a process.
 
 
Simplist
19:20 / 26.01.03
I have a real problem with the idea that enlightenment is anything other than a process.

It is a process in the sense that it's never-ending, ie. ever-evolving and deepening. No understanding is final and complete, in other words. Still, there are transition points that stand out. A particular degree of experiential insight may be sporadically glimpsed at first, then sustained for extended periods of time, and finally integrated as a permanent, steady-state realization. It's this integration point--after which the insight is innate rather than an aspect of a transient state--which distinguishes an experience of a transcendent state of consciousness, which later recedes, from the permanent condition of enlightenment, which doesn't. Of course, said condition can be of varying depth, and assuming the individual avoids becoming fixated on some particular insight (ie. mistaking their "enlightenment" for some final, ultimate condition beyond which nothing remains to be learned), the initial awakening can continue to deepen indefinitely, and many more transition/integration points may occur over time.
 
 
cusm
22:51 / 30.01.03
Much as Sapient describes, I like to think of enlightenment as a measure rather than a discrete state. That is, today I am more enlightened than I was yesderday. Tomorrow I will be more enlightened (I hope ) than I am today. But at no time is there one state I reach that is representative of a final attainment of enlightenment. If I ever thought I'd reached that, I would stop progressing. So, I like to look at it as a measure rather than a goal, so it is a continuous path rather than a point to reach.
 
 
illmatic
07:51 / 31.01.03
I think there's a mix up between these states as well - general progression/learning/growth, and the peak experiences one might have as a result of practice. The whole notion of enlightenment is talked of as some fugue like bliss state(enLIGHTenment), with corresponding siddhis, or omnipotence or whatever.

And while states like this may occur (well, the bliss at least, not so sure about the omnipotence) it's what comes afterwards that's importance. And the fact that striving after these states can become as much as an obsession and attachment as anything else. I prefer the word "liberation" to enlightment myself - i can imagine being "liberated" from some of my hang ups and fears but I can't relate in the same way to the idea of "enlighenment".

The writer who seems to get closest to this notion to me is Choygam Trungpa - many words of wisdom about relating to present experience rather than the heights of mystical attainment. Will put in some quotes when I have a moment.

As an aside, incidentally, what do people think about the Western magicial grades? I've been thinking a bit lately about the notion of "attainment of a grade" such as Crowley's assumption of 8=3. The worst thing about this is it seems to imply that it's a permanent state, with no backsliding or loss of that "gnostic high" possible. Crowley's life doesn't seem to bear this out, to say the least.
 
 
Mike
09:27 / 31.01.03
Crowley always wanted to know more, and he wanted to know about everything, and that led him down some roads that people criticise him for going down, but they were roads that no one else had ever been down before and there was no way for him to know where they would lead. Anyone can follow an established path, it takes a little more to take a virgin path.

In the words of Robert Frost, "Two roads diverged in a wood and I - I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference."

Its easy for you to sit their as an armchair occultist and say that Crowley's life didn't bear up to your criteria for maintained enlightenment, but I wonder if perhaps he died knowing more than you will ever be able to imagine?
 
 
Sebastian
10:48 / 31.01.03
One duty of the zen master is to have the adept realise that the more vehemently and directly illumination is seeked, the more away it is. The adept should involve in zen practice with no expectations of results. Thus begins the cultivation of the correct attitude.

Once the adept experiences an illuminatory experience, or the heralds of such, he intuitively starts to know how to lead himself to it. This intuition is what develops through a process.

Evy, and everybody in any case, but first that brought it to "mind" was Evy, Evy: I think you'll like The Unanswerable Question by Richard Bolstad and Margot Hamblett.
 
 
illmatic
11:05 / 31.01.03
Its easy for you to sit their as an armchair occultist and say that Crowley's life didn't bear up to your criteria for maintained enlightenment, but I wonder if perhaps he died knowing more than you will ever be able to imagine?

He probably did - I doubt (or rather I know), I'll never acheive as much in my lifetime as he did in his, But just because he acheived a great deal, does this mean he's beyond criticism?

I do think he fucked up, and lost some of his earlier inspiration, because of his hubris and egocentricity. But perhaps he would never have got as far as he did without this cauldron of neurosis driving him on, so who know? Anyway, the post was more aimed at criticising that whole notion of grades as they turn up in the Western GD tradition. Crowley seemed like the best example of this.
 
 
cusm
21:03 / 31.01.03
The problem with the grades is seeing them as a badge of achievement. Their purpose is a guide and a process, by which the magickian balances every aspect of hirself through exploration of each aspect. At each grade, a new set of rules and ideas are focused on to bring those aspects into balance. Its a fine enough system on paper, its just the use of it as a ranking system in a heirarchial religious structure that turns me off of it.
 
  
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