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Xenophobia

 
 
000
13:47 / 21.01.03
Kids,

Xenophobia is good. Xenophobia assures a good night's sleep. Xenophobia is ours.

When all the frightening strangers come here and whine, and in their refusal to adapt start spouting opinions and show alien worldviews, take them down. Take them down fast. We live in Xenophobilith.

When your attempts to uphold the status qou against these frightening strangers fail, loudly proclaim that you're in no way going to engage in their threads/debate/opinions. Preferably twice or thrice, just in case anyone was wondering or missed your bold statement. Xenophobilith is our place, and we have a class system. Just like in real life, see. And anyone that challenges that class system should be driven out fast. Real fast.

Create unnecessary traffic to these frightening strangers by being deeply against their ways, just in case anyone who hasn't involved themselves cannot miss their drivel. So that they can join us in our given right to boot them hard. And fast.

We are xenophobic and proud of it. Let there be no question.
 
 
000
13:54 / 21.01.03
(BTW, this is not based on anyone in particular. Nnnnooooo, sir)
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:56 / 21.01.03
Chromeo, I definitely see your point, and I am totally down with being friendly and open with posters here, even those who I may disagree with, think are wrong or who I find just plain annoying, but first of all IC is making it very difficult to even communicate with him, let alone be civil, and now he's made vague threats to boot.

Though I must admit I've violated my own "Don't Feed the Trolls" rule today.


By the way, what do you propose as a solution?
 
 
000
14:02 / 21.01.03
I don't know. But in my opinion Barbelith history has shown solutions that weren't optimal. There has to be a better way.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
14:07 / 21.01.03
Oh stop with this whole 'I'm naming no names' shit, if you feel so strongly about it then name them. I can see why you'd like to turn this into a 'Barbelith is being a bastard!' case as innercircle is using much the same techniques as your little group once did, and getting much the same response. Just as you did, innercircle expects bountious applause and unquestioning devotion for the manna ze brings, and is getting pissy because that isn't what's happening.

Anyone who can't take being questioned by a few dozen people has got a philosophy that isn't going to last ten minutes in the real world. Need I remind you of the threats ze made against the board for 'tampering' with hirs posts?
 
 
000
14:10 / 21.01.03
Oh please, this isn't the place to discuss what you think we achieved, or to use both yours and Cherry Bomb's example of what innercircle is about. Come again.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
14:13 / 21.01.03
Sorry Bendt, I'm not sure if you were one of the contributors to this, but one of the IC threads that was deleted in Switchboard was concerning Australian policies to refugees but then it very quickly became a clearly xenophobic rant against ALL Australians...IC was finally forced to concede that personal prejudice played a large part, and that was why the thread was deleted..along with the personal attacks they directed to posters when asked to clarify/discuss their position.

IC has been asked numerous times, in very polite and friendly ways, to engage with other posters in a less hostile way but chooses not to...and I for one do not take kindly to threats being made against me.
 
 
000
14:17 / 21.01.03
As opposed to the threats you and others make upon said posters, say?

I'm not sure if you were one of the contributors to this

No, I'm not. Without going into details, what I do in real life and what I want to achieve is, at the moment, not applicable to this board.
 
 
Hattie's Kitchen
14:27 / 21.01.03
As opposed to the threats you and others make upon said posters, say?

Examples please? I may have sworn once, oh the shame, but I've certainly never threatened to hack into someone else's ID, or sent abusive PMs, or threatened to disrupt and damage a BBS.

Oh enough already, I'm done with this.
 
 
000
14:40 / 21.01.03
All I'm saying is that the routine goes something like this: A poster shows up and presents something, now, the mode of presentation might be questionable, but it doesn't stop long-time posters to exert facetiousness, rude remarks or direct confrontations that must surely be daunting for the recipient, especially when they pile up in numbers -- most retorts from said recipient usually fall into the mold of a hardened opinion, armouring hirself for the massively oppressive atmosphere, which then creates more nay-sayers.

Round and round.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:42 / 21.01.03
Well, it's pretty simple. Bendt's interests are served by a Barbelith that tolerates enormous quotations, people purporting to be representatives of an enlightened collective, lengthy off-topic rambles, threadrot, refusal to engage in any meaningful way with counterarguments and instead posting *more* endless quotations, personal abuse treated as a valid addition to threads and the flaming, trolling and threatening of people who disagree with these methoids, because that is, as has already been said ad nauseam, the way the Greenland Posse worked. He clearly feels that this was because we timorous fellows were afraid of the big sexy truth of the Greenland Posse, and thus logically the same thing is happening here. If Barbelith was more accepting of these methods, it would be a friendlier place to those methods and those who employed them would be respected more.

That's simple self-interest. It is unfortunate that this appears to be setting Bendt off again, after a period of apparent calm, but that's the danger of Bedlam - the howls of one disturb the sleep of another.

None of this changes the fact that Barbelith is a discussion forum, and IC has shown little interest so far in discussing anything. He has also done himself few favours by proposing, after about two days on the board, the rebuilding of the Supercollective, in effect, but called the Inner Circle, with all the "good" people on Barbelith in it (we might elegantly sort out this whole thing by inviting everybody into the Inner Circle except Innercircle), since he was finding himself belaboured by admittedly some pisstaking and also a fair amount of simple disagreement or questioning, or requests that he make his posts more comprehensible. He is now attemtping to threaten the moderators into leaving his posts and threads untouched, no matter how offtopic, unprofitable or misplaced they happen to be, and attempting to deploy the threat of *ahem* legal action over his intellectual property being stolen, among other dark threats. All rather schoolyard, really.

He had and still has the option of trying to meet the rest of the board on some middle ground, rather than insisting that the board change to accomodate him. He could engage in a productive way with his "er....boycott Barbelith....it stinks" thread, explaining what he was upset about, how he feels the moderators were out of line, and how such situations can be avoided in the future, instead of giving orders and then throwing a hissy fit when they are not obeyed. If he doesn't want to do that or anything like that, prefering to threaten and throw tantrums, that's entirely his affair. It's a familiar dance, after all.

Or he could boycott Barbelith, on the grounds that it stinks. That works too.

In the meantime, Bendt, could you find a single threat made by any member of Barbelith without provocation (or even with, really) against Innercircle?
 
 
Ariadne
14:43 / 21.01.03
Oh, that's rubbish Chrome - loads of new people join and manage to fit in, even if people don't agree with them. ICs method of posting huge tracts and his general arrogance is hugely irritating - and the personal threats in the Policy just prove to me that we'd be better weeding him out fast.
 
 
000
14:50 / 21.01.03
Haus:

Your style of posting with an allknowing recollection of specifically me, could you lay off it? It isn't funny. Neither is it clever or affecting. Avoid.
 
 
000
14:59 / 21.01.03
How to Create a Martyr pt. I:

(Specific example: innercircle): A questionable topicstart swiftly followed by

I) Condenscension - (Haus "Christ. Do you know, I don't think anyone on Barbelith has ever suggested that Chomsky might make quite interesting reading *ever* before."

II) Facetiousness - (Still Haus "We are all terribly impressed over here. And gosh, blow me if there isn't a huge line of girls forming to sex you, so impressed are they with your (ahem) *copyright* words of wisdom."

III) Direct confrontation (that may have the original poster scratching hir head, just what did ze do to deserve that?) - (Still Haus "To the Conversation with this, I think."

Want more, Haus?
 
 
000
14:59 / 21.01.03
And just so you know, those smileys were intentional.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:07 / 21.01.03
Funny that I've never felt at all oppressed by Barbelith or any of the people who post here.

I don't really understand what your problem is, I came on to the board after you so I don't recall how you got here, to tell the truth I don't care. You've seen IC's posts, we've been preached at endlessly and I haven't pressed ignore because I don't ignore anyone, I'd much rather make a judgement call. IRL it's easy to make a judgement, you look at someone in the street, you call it. Not so easy on the internet though, you have to wait and wait and decide and that's the job that the moderator's are doing. So let them do it.

Why is everyone on this board obsessed by the way new people are treated? All you have to do is weather Haus' acid tongue, like once, if you're nice to him and argue logically he leaves you alone after that. Anyone who can't do that in text for about two days really needs to go and think in the corner about whether they want to be here anyway. This is just the kind of board where you have to take a little time to consider, not everywhere on the internet has to be cybersex all the time. God. Get. Over. It.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:14 / 21.01.03
Actually, Bendt, I was recollecting the Greenland Posse, as you may note from reading what I actually wrote. I could never tell you lot apart, and have no idea which one you were at any given time. Nor do I particularly care. It remains the case that the behaviour of the Greenland Posse and the behaviour of Innercircle - lengthy cut'n'paste jobs from websites supporting their beliefs, followed by petulance, abuse and claims of enlightenment as part of a screed of self-justification. I don;t think it's a very productive way to engage, and I was very glad when the greenland posse, now it seems represented only by yourself, largely gave up on it.

Innercircle could have lurked for a bit and found out that most of us might not be overly impressed by a thread in the Head Shop telling us all how much cleverer we could be if we read the Guardian or Chomsky. It wouldn't have taken long. He chose instead to patronise people and clog up the Revolution with irrelevance.

The tragedy is, some of this stuff is genuinely interesting. If he was able to handle interacting with other human beings, a nd understood how the fora worked, and expressed and invited opinions rather than farting out other people's editorials, then a whole bunch of interesting threads on Vivendi, on the links between entertainment companies and businesses involved in shady dealing, on Australian government policy and how best to oppose it....all good, interesting things to discuss. It's a shame, and, as I say, I still have high hopes that ic will become a valued and productive member of the board. Right now, though, he ain't, and this rather lends the lie to your accusations of creating a martyr. A martyr to whom, exactly? You. Anyone else? Anyone else inspired to follow the flag of the martyred innercircle?

If ic has the self-awareness and intelligence top understand and work on being a more effective communicator, then no doubt all will be well. But demanding that Barbelith change to accomodate him is not the way to do this. On the bright side, at least he hasn't accused anyone of being a piss-drinking noncelover yet...
 
 
000
15:22 / 21.01.03
Anna de Logardiere:

IRL it's easy to make a judgement, you look at someone in the street, you call it. Not so easy on the internet though, you have to wait and wait and decide and that's the job that the moderator's are doing.

The point with this thread is, you may think we are less judgmental online but let's have another look, shall we:

How to Create a Martyr pt. II:

A questionable poster arrives on the scene and is met with:

I) A wellthought out reply (sorry Illmatic, this is no foul against you)

II) Confrontation without consulting the poster in wuestion first, in order to clarify terms and such (which, admittedly, I fell under, but I was playing double play)

III) Facetiousness etc.

repeat, repeat, repeat and resolve very little.
 
 
000
15:28 / 21.01.03
Haus: Actually, Bendt, I was recollecting the Greenland Posse, as you may note from reading what I actually wrote.

Yes, but the fact remains, as I have explained plentifully in the past, I am the only Greenlander of our group. Therefore, it is a misnomer.

I do get the point you're driving across, but as I say (and the topic of the thread being) even though new posters offer enlightenment, or what have you, the standard reaction from many members should be scrutinized because I think it is something that creates an unhealthy cycle.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:29 / 21.01.03
Oh please, Joe was being just as facetious and confrontational, walking in to a magick forum and expecting everyone to treat you like the Buddha the first time is not particularly polite is it? You live, you learn - and don't get me started on the magick forum anyway... bloody sigils and servitors and chaos and shamanistic ritual and Gek never ever helps me.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:30 / 21.01.03
Oh and the reaction struck me as gentle hazing that turned in to provocation as Joe didn't react. Barbelith's just one big sorority it seems!
 
 
000
15:33 / 21.01.03
OK, Joe is ... Joe.

Alternative:

A new member is met with

I) "How ironic, spamming against evil."
 
 
Linus Dunce
15:40 / 21.01.03
Inner Circle is not a martyr.

Half-baked and obtuse *personal* understanding of the ideas of freedom of speech and relativity do not detract from the fact that this prat is trying to be disruptive. In case you haven't noticed, he has done little else but flood discussion threads with incoherent text, thereby causing threadrot and pushing good stuff off the screen. He has nothing to communicate (go on, name something) other than the fact that he wishes to fuck stuff up.

He does not have an "alien worldview" we should respect any more than a street urchin has a valid point when he smashes up a telephone box or keys the neighbours' cars for no reason other than they are shiny and useful to people.

And, on the very fucking remote chance that IC does have a point, it is possible to buy a domain name and host for the price of a few drinks a month. Let him set up innercircle.com. Oh, sorry, I forgot. That would involve responsibility, wouldn't it, and that wouldn't be fair on the poor chap.
 
 
000
16:18 / 21.01.03
Sufferer for devotion of a cause. I say IC is a martyr.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:29 / 21.01.03
Of, course, there is also the thread where the one-line opening post was sensitively and welcomingly responded to far beyond its deserts, here, or the lengthy explanation of how Barbelith works and both how and why his irrelevant post had been deleted, here. But that doesn't work as well, does it?

As for:

Yes, but the fact remains, as I have explained plentifully in the past, I am the only Greenlander of our group. Therefore, it is a misnomer.

I think we've kind of got to the heart of the problem here. Bendt, you've just kind of demonstrated why it's a bad idea to come onto Barbelith claiming universal knowledge and not being able to find Selfawaria with an atlas. "the Greenland Posse" is not as misnomer. It's a joke. Because the Greenland Posse were a joke. Maybe through what you got up to on Barbelith you weakened the stronghold (or possibly strenghtened the stronghold), or defeated the evil lizards with the power of your thoughts, but what on the dark ground of this fallen world you achieved was to provide a series of gags about borderline schizophrenic sheltered-housing-dwelling, lizard-fearing, anti-semitic loons who believed themselves to have the psychic ability to smell paedophiles. And it doesn't matter which of you could smell paedophiles, or which of you predicted the World Trade Centre attacks but never got round to telling anyone, or which of you lives in Greenland, because you became a comic trope that mashed you up into an amorphous glacier-licking nonce-sniffing carnival. That's what happens to people who treat Barbelith and the opinions and thoughts of people on Barbelith who disagree with them as beneath their contempt, or who endlessly aggrandise themselves, claim their superiority and demand that others sit at their feet and learn from them. They get the piss taken out of them until they either stop whining and adapt or go away in a big huff, either with or without an attempt to bring down the board, threaten Tom, accuse anyone who disagrees with them of kiddy-fiddling, te tum te tum te tum blah blha fishcakes.

Maybe it would make more sense to consider the hundred-odd people who seem to have arrived in the past year or so, annd ask how many of them were hazed, and why they managed to escape such terrible and shoddy treatment? Maybe because they didn't expect everyone to fall and kiss the ground they walked on in thanks for deigning to visit with their big sexy truth.

Sorry, but there you go. People who play nice can be as strange as they like, as far as I can tell, but being rude, boorish, arrogant and pompous isn't strange. It's absolutely par for the course. It's the most normal thing in the world. And that's something that Barbelith doesn't need to tolerate.
 
 
Linus Dunce
16:52 / 21.01.03
Sufferer for devotion of a cause. I say IC is a martyr.

1. Always with the reductionism. Get a 32-bit chip.
2. Cause? Hahahaha!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:13 / 21.01.03
Bendt Chromeo Sufferer for devotion of a cause. I say IC is a martyr.

But wouldn't that make the rest of us martyrs for our devotion to the cause of not letting him get away with trashing barbelith with rubbish?

For what little it's probably worth right now, when you stopped your massive cut-n-paste-athons I did try to start afresh again and discuss what you were saying, as in the Paedophile-Tumor thread. If innercircle just did the same, a lot of this xenophobia you're smelling would disappear.
 
 
000
23:13 / 21.01.03
Haus:

Maybe through what you got up to on Barbelith you weakened the stronghold (or possibly strenghtened the stronghold), or defeated the evil lizards with the power of your thoughts, but what on the dark ground of this fallen world you achieved was to provide a series of gags about borderline schizophrenic sheltered-housing-dwelling, lizard-fearing, anti-semitic loons who believed themselves to have the psychic ability to smell paedophiles.

Let my past be what it is, I have no problem with that, and also, I think it is not safe to assume that because I/we may seem to have been spectacularly unsuccessful with the previous threads which, apparently, still are measured against these newcomers, does not mean it is so in real life, or with certain members. I have done the introspective review over what it means in the context of said members in question, and I have been able to find some basic differences in our approaches, and modes of presentation. Thinking back on the threads which I started (and which my others joined at a later date), the desired results have been various, and although many may destill what we achieved, like you regularly do, it was much more complex than that. But I didn't start this thread to discuss me and my others, rather, I hoped to pause some members and let them think over what it is they're doing, you know, I would hate for Barbelith to go through another period just like after the deal with the Knodger. In that period Barbelith felt old, tired and exclusive -- not in a good way.
 
 
000
23:16 / 21.01.03
My Izzardlike Transvestite of the Flowers:

But wouldn't that make the rest of us martyrs for our devotion to the cause of not letting him get away with trashing barbelith with rubbish?

All I'm saying is, perhaps it wouldn't be a case of letting people with agendas trash Barbelith, if some cases were handled a little bit better.
 
  
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