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Underground > Comic Books >

The Ultimates #8

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10:22 / 16.01.03

SPOILERS, obviously...

So - come on!

You love it; big stupid-ass Matrix action, ali-yunzz!!! and a kind of Planetary angle to it all.

Plus: Hitchy is king.

And Captain America wants a word...

10:50 / 16.01.03

What ya mean by a Planetary angle?? Spoil it for me, I am heading straight for the Hardcover.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

11:56 / 16.01.03

Definitely one of the most exciting comics I've read in a while. I too said "No way," when BW jumped it. Millar pulls the same stuff in UXM but the Kuberts just can't pull it off. Imagine Hitch drawing that one too. The train dropped by Maggie-Neato in Vol. 1? Yikes.

The Planetary angle? Alien races affecting the progress of mankind and super secret ways we could never know about.

Matthew Fluxington

12:02 / 16.01.03

I bought this along with New X-Men, and as that comic was an example of how to do it right, this issue of Ultimates was for me a prime of example of how to do it all wrong.

Oh, the Nazis were space aliens, Mark? (rolls eyes)

That's so unbearably lame. I realize that the story of world history is a far more complex and subtle story than Millar can possibly wrap his little Maxim head around, but c'mon - this is so cheap and devoid of creativity.

I don't know why I spend $2.25 every now and again for this, other than that I like Bryan Hitch's pretty pretty pictures.

12:19 / 16.01.03

it's lame. the last issue and this one had the same cliffhanger! and why not just call them skrulls? and why doesn't scarlet witch ever do anything? one neat but derivative action scene, and one good twist on the nazi-aliens riff [the hiroshima thing], and that not much. it only comes out three times a year, could we not at least hurry the storytelling along when it does arrive? today was a very good illustration of the continuing difference between gm and mm.

The Natural Way

12:19 / 16.01.03

He's hardly the first writer to insinuate that space alien beasties had a hand in the bringing about and waging of the 2nd world war. Grant Morrison, anyone?

12:50 / 16.01.03

yeah yeah that's what i'm saying - got no problem with grabbing an old story and punching it a bit, it's an ultimate book after all, just that it felt so ho-hum. even fury looked bored.

13:05 / 16.01.03

I bought this along with New X-Men, and as that comic was an example of how to do it right, this issue of Ultimates was for me a prime of example of how to do it all wrong.

My thoughts exactly.

The Natural Way

13:30 / 16.01.03

Do stop reading this comic, Flux. Just stop. Yr not an action movie kinda bloke - why are you putting yrself through this?

Matthew Fluxington

13:46 / 16.01.03

I just don't know! It's the same thing with Ultimate X-Men - I hate that comic, yet I always buy it, I think primarily out of morbid curiosity. It's not all that much money, and it kills some time on the train, but surely I can find better uses of that money for the same purpose, right?

I guess Millar is just a guy that I love to hate, you know? He gives me a new reason to despise him every month.

At least with The Ultimates I get to say that "well, I do like Hitch's art", but I've got no excuse with Ultimate X-Men. Every issue of that comic to date has had nothing less than terrible artwork.

At least I've been strong enough to not even thumb through Ultimate War, right?

The Natural Way

14:14 / 16.01.03

You think Kaare's artwork's HORRIBLE?!?!?

Ummmm...no.....very, very wrong.

Matthew Fluxington

14:59 / 16.01.03

I don't think Kaare Andrew's art is bad, but it was pretty bad for the story in Ultimate X-Men. I've seen him do good work, but his two issues weren't very good and were especially jarring going from Kubert to Andrews and back. He's got a long way to go with storytelling too, I'd say. He reminds me of Joe Madureira - good, fun drawings that really don't hold up as storytelling at all.

Graeme McMillan

16:20 / 16.01.03

This issue was such a Matrix rip-off, I'm sure I must be missing something that stops everyone else from declaring it to be one of the least original comics ever invented. Seriously. There wasn't one original thing in this issue. Why does this take four months per issue?

I don't get it. If you want The Matrix, watch the fucking Matrix. Why read this?

Matthew Fluxington

16:38 / 16.01.03

It takes four months because Bryan Hitch is having some very understandable family problems, and they don't want to compromise the series by having someone other than Hitch draw it.

17:35 / 16.01.03

I thought the whole point of the issue was to rip off the matrix... in a similar manor that Superman & Batman where ripped off for THE AUTHORITY. It seemed like that whole opening action sequence was a sort of story board for the Movie.

I liked Quicksiler's attidute & the interplay between He & Widow. As well as her obvious flertations with Stark. Beautiful art of course... the lack of "soundFX" was very noticable, not sure for better or worse. Almost wondered if the cover was supposed to be Hawkeye & BlackWidow instead of Wanda & Quicksilver.

17:47 / 16.01.03

Yeah, seeing as how the majority of the comic focused on those two.

It's about time comics came back to rockin' action scenes like the first 15 or so pages of this. Of course it's like the Matrix...

Millar writes very distinct characters, too.

Don't like it? Don't read it, and for God's sake don't write about it; it's getting pretty boring reading this whining shite.

Matthew Fluxington

18:04 / 16.01.03

It's about time comics came back to rockin' action scenes like the first 15 or so pages of this. Of course it's like the Matrix...

Um, surely you just mean superhero comics, right? Because I'm pretty sure that you know better than THAT, Duncan.

18:16 / 16.01.03

What I'm wondering is how Hawkeye is able to carry around all of those arrows. He must have killed at least 100 skrulls all by himself.

Graeme McMillan

19:08 / 16.01.03

"Don't like it? Don't read it, and for God's sake don't write about it; it's getting pretty boring reading this whining shite."

That people are proclaiming something this unoriginal, self-indulgent and dull to be one of the best superhero comics around is always something to whine about, I find. Even if said fans find said whining "shite".

Still, point taken. I'll shut up.

19:39 / 16.01.03

Fuck that. If people can talk about how great The Untold Anal Adventures of Alias is surely you can have you own opinion about this book?

Or should I start a Bitch about Crappy Comics thread?

Matthew Fluxington

19:46 / 16.01.03

I agree - what's the point of even writing about something in the context of this board if you can't stand to see any kind of criticism? If you want to just drool over the comic and avoid seeing anyone say anything critical about it, maybe you're better off discussing the Ultimates over at Millarworld.

23:21 / 16.01.03

The art rocked.

The story was unimaginative, but packs the action this series has spectacularly delivered in two issues to date (the Hulk-eats-your-brains fest and this here number 8).

Millar completely threw me by the character reversal of Hawkeye and Black Widow. For over a decade, they were always shown as the weaker, assassin-like-but-not-really-deadly two-dimensional characters Marvel routinely pumps out.

Opinions are like a _ _ - holes everyone has one. I don't take it personal when someone diagrees or ignores mine, and it's not like I being paid for my opinion anyways.

VR
The Shaerk

00:11 / 17.01.03

Is the super-affectionate behavior between Wanda and Pietro supposed to be suggestive of incest in the Ultimate comics, or is this an Ultimates-only convention? (I don't read UXM, so I don't know if Millar has already set that up - can't bring myself to be even slightly interested)

Don't like that we have the same cliffhanger twice, as previously stated, but I'm still looking forward to seeing if Cap gives Pym a talking to with his words or his foot in his ass.

Graeme McMillan

00:29 / 17.01.03

Half stirring shit and half serious question:

Mark Millar from his interview with Rich Johnson:
"The simple answer is that I think superhero books are what comics do best... It's the one thing, besides humour, I think comics do better than movies or books and, my God, we don't need to feel ashamed or justify it."

If he really believes that, then why create a superhero comic that rips off a movie so blatantly as the latest issue of The Ultimates?

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

01:44 / 17.01.03

Probably because he wanted to show that a comic could actually Out-Matrix the Matrix. Not a very philosophical comparison, but if you try measuring the scale of the lobby scene in the Matrix and the Building(s) in this issue, you can kind of see what he was trying to do. I mean, it's clearly a Matrix pastiche from the first page, but he takes it about eight times further in the bodies and spectacle department (and that Black Widow shot is another example: literally same exact shot from the film but about twenty stories higher up and a block further apart). The way I figure it, the Ultimates HC ought to come out just around the same time as the Matrix Revolutions (which also happens to be Christmas) and it will be the biggest selling comic trade in the history of mankind.

I gotta go read this ish again, going from this to NXM every day since Wednesday, I've still got a good three new books I haven't gotten to yet and probably won't for a while.

02:36 / 17.01.03

This explanation is going to sound silly, but it may be why he's not calling them Skrulls. It is my understanding that the Ultimate books share a continuity. You'll see Nick Fury in Spider-Man (Nick was a real prick in one of those Ultimate Spideys. He told Peter to have fun because when he turned 18 his ass belonged to Nick Fury). We currently see the Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men together. So it stands to reason that Ultimate Team-Up is in the same continuity. In one of those issues Spidey fought the Skrulls. It was actually quite funny, and drawn by that Askew guy (Mahfood?). So if the Skrulls already exist as cute, annoying, space aliens in the Ultimate Universe, Millar probably wouldn't want to use them.

BrianFitzgerald

07:39 / 17.01.03

I think the real question any observant reader must ask himself after perusing this issue is:

Who the hell is fondling the squirrels in Chicago?

The Natural Way

09:05 / 17.01.03

Flux, that has to be the first time I've completely disagreed w/ you about an artist. Kaare Andrew's storytelling is, as far as I'm concerned, really, really good. It flows, he conveys the correct emotions, it reads really easily and effortlessly conveys what he intends to convey. No, I really don't see how you can knock his storytelling at all. Best art UXM's ever seen, in my opinion - and I did think it suited it. The only problem was how bad he made everyone else look.

And fuck, that was a great action scene. It rocked. I don't know what the problem is. Visceral, exciting, stoooopid. Great. Who cares if it took a Matrix riff and ran with it? I like sampling.

Re Wanda and Pietro: Millar's on record stating that Mutant attitudes to relationships may be a little bit....odd. Which is fair enough.

Yeah, the aliens should just be called Skrulls. Shapeshifting lizards?
C'mon, Millar - they're Skrulls, man! And they're pure 100% DAVID ICKE (why has no-one else spotted this?)! I knew Mark would squeeze that freak in somewhere - he is, afterall, the guy's no. 1 fan.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

10:45 / 17.01.03

Actually, and I've been doing quite a bit board jumping for some reason, sharing little pertinant bits of info, Millar (on his board), pointed out that he named those aliens after an ancient African (I think) legend, the first recorded mention of an alien invading race and a staple in conspiracy theories for quite some time. Google it and check it out. I believe they were that Chitauri, but don't quote me. It's all a part of his quest to root the Ultimates in as real a world as superhumanly possible. And he says that Kirby knew of the legend and it was one of his inspirations, so who knows.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

12:46 / 17.01.03

I like it when runce:

Yes! The one saving grace for me in this issue was the David Icke reference. Lovely lovely lovely. Very fucking satisfying.

-6

The Natural Way

13:07 / 17.01.03

Basically Millars providing a little homunculus world where all Icke's wonderful madshit can come to life, and that's just great. I think yr missing out on the joke, Flux.

16:13 / 17.01.03

Please excuse my temperament, I have a viral infection.

Still, I tend to read things in the hope/belief that they'll be good. If you didn't like the previous 7 issues, it's unlikely you'd enjoy this, y'know.

Oh, and comix/comics/whatever...

Matthew Fluxington

16:48 / 17.01.03

Wait, Duncan, do you really miss the point of why I hate to see you conflate superhero action with comics as a medium? I mean, do you work for Wizard, or something?

I don't know. I looked through all of my Ultimates issues this morning, and I guess I do like it enough to keep up with it in spite of really hating a lot of it. I do really like Hitch's art, and I am genuinely curious to see how the stories work out. I'm kinda looking foward to finally seeing the Captain America/Giant Man confrontation next issue, so I will definitely buy that issue. It isn't much different from how I watch ER lately - the past four or five episodes of that show have been awful, but I've been keeping up with it because it doesn't really cost me anything and I usually have freetime when it's on. I suppose if I had less free time to kill with things like this, I wouldn't bother, but I do currently have some time to spare for them, even if they do let me down.

17:36 / 17.01.03

I like to read some comic books because they are fun. This issue of The Ultimates was fun to read and beautiful to look at. The way Hitch handles Black Widow's body language in the whole debriefing scene was great. She's flirting with everyone from Thor to Wanda, without saying a word. And I had to look at the alien's body for some time before I could make (literal) heads or tails of it. I like that something that was supposed to be disconcerting to view, really took some time to digest.

I also wish he would just use the word "skrull" here, but whatever. It's not crucial. And as hack jobbed as the whole "secret-history-of-the-world" origin is, I have a feeling he's going to twist it around on us in further issues. Also, Millar is smart enough to know that his audience will recognize The Matrix rip-off from the get go. But it's fun, so he went with it anyway. While we're at it, we could chalk up all the Hawkeye scenes as a Legolas rip off. But who cares? People just like to imagine themselves shooting arrows and jumping off buildings.

A free and frank exchange of ideas is great. But do we need dramatic nasty spouts? It IS an action superhero book after all. I also like to read comic books that are intelligent. And when a writer can combine fun with intelligence it's great. But I wasn't under the assumption that anything with a main character named Captain America was going to be wildly cerebral in terms of stimulation.

21:37 / 17.01.03

That statement is knida funny.

I never had a doubt that the moment I picked up an Avengers comic written by Millar that:

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