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Gangs of New York

 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:30 / 10.01.03
Nobody seen this yet?

Daniel Day Lewis looks amazing. So does the set. And yes, I'm worried that it'll be shit too.

Despite all the panic alarms going off, I am looking forward to this and have decided on my fashion style for 2003.

Tuffin in up in a top hat and cheeky-check breeches - shut it.

Verdicts please.

Film, not outfit.

Well actually vedict on DDL's creation too, because I'm fascinated by his character.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
09:48 / 10.01.03
I'm sorry, Yawn, but I do have to talk about outfits - I saw a trailer for this film and I thought it looked good - until I saw DDL and co. Then I fell about laughing and knew that I could never take Gangs of New York seriously - they look like Diddy Men, fer chrissakes! (for you youngsters and outside the UK, the Diddy Men were a creation by 'entertainer' Ken Dodd, funny little men with hats just like DDL's.) I just cannot go and see this film, much as I want to.
 
 
No star here laces
10:34 / 10.01.03
DiCaprio? WHyyyyyyyyYYYyyyyy?

I too really really want to see this, but having to watch little Leo in a goatee being all serious and manly is just too much for me. I actually don't mind him as an actor, but he can't do serious...
 
 
The Natural Way
10:49 / 10.01.03
Yes, BUT, SFD, believe it or not, those costumes ARE pretty much historically accurate. Those guys did wear some strange get ups.....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:57 / 10.01.03
I'm torn on this film - on the one hand with the exception of Day Lewis (and some of the visuals, including the costumes) it doesn't actually seem to promise to be that great; on the other hand I'm completely fascinated by the neglected periods of American history (ie: most of it), and this one in particular...
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
11:57 / 10.01.03
It was a decent movie. Why the talking heads on TV loved it so much I don't know... it had some cool camera work and nifty battle scenes.

DDL was the highpoint of the movie. He created a very cool character. The costume, the dialogue, the bizarre accent - all good.

I'm thinking it was a 7/10.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:01 / 10.01.03
I looooove the costumes. That get up is outrageous and serves to remind us that our present day gangs are letting us down with their naff sportswear. Thinking about Glaswegian Gangs, they certainly were a stylish lot until the seventies really. (Even tho the seventies gear was eminently superior to what the little cunts wear now!)

I thought teddie boys were over the top, but this lot......wow!

I'm a real sucker for charismatic violence yknow.
 
 
glassonion
13:04 / 10.01.03
from the clips ddl's character looks like he's still tucking well in to the christmas ham. and cameron diaz' accent, bless...the borges short story makes me very much want to see this movie, despite my fears of acting quality and scorsese's 'innovative' camerawork.
 
 
glassonion
13:07 / 10.01.03
yawn have you read stewart home's pure mania? his descriptions of the tacky casual wear that the 'sorts' gang use are well cool. wouldn't it be weird if morrison grew a suedehead? i know he's too old and bald now but...
 
 
illmatic
13:08 / 10.01.03
Going to see it tonight!
Will report in asap.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:21 / 10.01.03
glass: not read pure mania - no.

I know Home is a good friend of Morrison though.

But as an aside: an aquantaince of mine is quite good pals of Morrison and has been staying at his house for various reasons and says there is an eldery dying cat there.

it made me think that The Filth is about Morrison's fears for himself. That maybe he is just a powerless 'wanker'. (Aren't we all)

If you're reading this GM, dinny take it the wrang whey!
 
 
that
15:04 / 10.01.03
Leonardo DiCaprio can do serious. Or, at least, he used to be able to do serious, circa 'What's Eating Gilbert Grape?' back when he could act. I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Don't like Leonardo DiCaprio, don't much like Cameron Diaz, though I can think of more annoying choices. Various people I know are inexplicably desperate to see this film, but it doesn't grab me at all. A definite wait-for-the-video for me, judging by the trailer...
 
 
Hieronymus
15:23 / 10.01.03
Saw this the night it opened (a day after seeing Bowling for Columbine too. Ha!) and I'm dying to catch it again.

Don't judge it by the trailers, guys. I did the same when I first saw them in their screwy outfits and what I thought were campy lines but this movie is as visceral and bone-cutting about American history as it gets. Day Lewis's Bill the Butcher is worth the ticket price alone. Even Leo's not half bad in it despite the fact the poor squeaky bastard never has a chance against DDL.

I read somewhere that Gangs has more or less tanked at the office, not even scoring its budget back yet. Which is a shame. More people should get an eyeful of this. Scorsese nails a dead-on appraisal of all the slobbering malice and brutality that is America.

Here's to hoping an Oscar victory might pump up the ticket sales.
 
 
that
15:40 / 10.01.03
Well, it surely can't do worse than fucking Chicago...? Ugh.
 
 
Saint Keggers
20:50 / 10.01.03
I want my time spent watching this back. Great movie...fucking stupidest ending ever. All the time it took for the director to get this made and he spent soo little on an ending. It was also missing the best thing about a DiCaprio movie.
 
 
that
20:51 / 10.01.03
What's the best thing about a DiCaprio movie?
 
 
Utopia
21:33 / 10.01.03
Spoilers.






I loved this movie. Bill the Butcher should go down in the movie villain hall of fame. He was so...over the top it was great, and with that stovepipe hat...awesome. I think Scorsese has topped his last few films (Kundun (1997), which I thought was pretty damn good, and the putrid Bringing Out The Dead(1999)). DiCaprio's acting wasn't as poor as I expected -- that's not to say it was good, but he is at least on par with his contemporaries (ummm, Keanu Reeves, Johnny Depp...y'know, all them pretty boys from the late 80's/early 90's), which, again, really isn't a compliment. I didn't get too into his character though. There really wasn't much there to get into. I would have liked a more subjective viewpoint while he was working for Bill, rather than just assuming that he would come around and fight the bastard. Speaking of which... Their first confrontation (at Bill's annual party, with the knife throwing) rocked. You knew that Amsterdam (or whatever the hell his name was) wasn't going to die just yet, which means that Bill can do whatever the fuck he wants to him (fuck him with a knife?) and Leo'll come back to avenge daddy (damn, I love movie logic). The final battle... At first when I saw Bill come out of the smoke I was reminded of Enter the Dragon and the room full of mirrors...except Leo ain't Bruce Lee and very well could have gotten a knife between his ribs...but the Navy? What the fuck!? No way man, Leo should've been the one to fuckin' kill Bill, not a stray piece of fuckin' shrapnel! This scene felt too loose, like a lot of it was left on the cutting room floor (so to speak). It wasn't as epic as it felt it should have been. I would have like a breif cutaway explaining why the Navy was firing on Five Points specifically, when the rest of the city was in chaos too. As far as themes...I did enjoy the politicians, police and crime bosses minging together in an attempt to explain the legal climate of the time, and the simplicity of this stuff reminded me of older American cinema. Scorsese said that one of the battles with Miramax is that they wanted more character interaction while he wanted more enviornment. I agree with Scorsese, and if you pay attention, you see a bunch of jump cuts showing neighborhood youth's vandalising stuff etc., that while it shouldn't have fit in, made the film bigger. I just think that the Leo/Butcher stuff needed to be more pointed (no pun intended). Maybe I'm just desensitized to violence, but there needed to be a bigger emotional impact, and since Leo (as well as the younger toughs) weren't really fleshed out, there should have been a greater visual impact. Leo/Butcher should have been the peaks while the setting should have been the valleys. It felt as if they just bled into each other. All in all though, a really good movie. I'll be seeing it again shortly (after I finish up what's on my plate now), and if anyone reading this hasn't seen it, what the hell are you waiting for? Do you think it will be better on your 19" TV?
 
 
Hieronymus
22:29 / 10.01.03
Decaf, Utopia.

And some spoiler warnings?
 
 
Utopia
23:25 / 10.01.03
Oops. Well, I figured anyone who still hadn't seen it would figure that those of us who were posting had. It was released about a month ago...oh, wait, i dunno about that in the UK. Damn you non-North American 'lithers! When will you realize the folly of your ways!?

Decaf? No, why do you ask?
 
 
Saint Keggers
23:50 / 10.01.03
The best thing about a DiCaprio movie is he dies in the end....
 
 
that
11:55 / 12.01.03
Ah. I ought to have guessed that, really...the Macauley Culkin effect.
 
 
Saint Keggers
12:26 / 12.01.03
The Macauley Culkin effect? Kevin died at the end of Home Alone? I now rank that amongst the top 10 films of all time.
 
 
Ma'at
12:52 / 14.01.03
Interesting! I was entirely unsure what I was supposed to make of this film at all. Came to conclusion that 'Human beings are utterly revolting' was about the only message I could take from it.

Nicely shot and DDL is superb but otherwise I found the incessant violence rather deadening after a while and the religious elements rather disturbing (and not in a good way).
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:07 / 14.01.03
I saw the film over the weekend. I thought it was alright, pretty solid historical-epic fare, but nothing very special. Daniel Day Lewis steals the whole movie, he's the only person involved who pushes the film beyond being anything more than average, I think. Leonardo DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz were slightly better than what I had expected, but nonetheless seemed out of place and both had some real trouble sticking to an accent. As far as direction and photography goes, Scorcese has done a lot better than this, which is not to say that he did anything badly. I wasn't crazy about some of the slow motion violence bits, which I think looked sort of cheesy, but its not too distracting.

The film's maybe a half hour or so too long, too.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:22 / 16.01.03
I saw it last week, and enjoyed it, but it's by no means even close to being the best film of 2002. The opening battle sequence was incredible, particularly the editing and score during the chaos. The rest of the film was entertaining, but at the end it fell apart. It felt like the main plot was shoved aside at the end, just to fit in the draft riots, which while set up, didn't really have much to do with the film's main characters. It's worth seeing, but it's flawed, 7/10.
 
 
_pin
22:40 / 18.01.03
From The Telegraph-

Martin Scorsese is rightly the most lauded living American film-maker - a beacon of integrity as well as a brilliant talent. But his bloody, visually gorgeous new epic, Gangs of New York, set in Civil War-era Manhattan, distorts history at least as egregiously as The Patriot, Braveheart or the recent remake of The Four Feathers. In its confused way, it puts even the revisionism of Oliver Stone to shame.

The film works so hard to make mid-19th-century Irish-American street gang members into politically correct modern heroes (and to fit them into Scorsese's view of American history as one long ethnic rumble) that it radically distorts a great and terrible historical episode.

It treats the founding Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture of America with an ignorant contempt - where it doesn't cleanse it from history altogether. Generally speaking, Hollywood sees that culture not as the root of treasured democratic freedoms, but as a fount of snobbery and dreary conformism. The paradoxical result of this Hollywood faux-Leftism is that the movie ends up casually glossing over the suffering of black Americans.

[...]

The draft riots began with assaults on police by Irish immigrants enraged by Lincoln's conscription order on July 11, 1863. Very quickly, they turned into a monstrous pogrom, with a 50,000-strong mob murdering and mutilating every black they could find.

In the film, you don't see any of this. Instead, a voice-over quoting from telegraph reports briefly mentions some of the mob's racist violence. What you do see is the suppression of the riot: blue-clad troops massacring crudely armed civilians of all ages and both sexes. The rioters stand almost impassive, and are cut down by gunfire and mortar shells lobbed from warships in the harbour (a bombardment wholly invented by the film-makers).


(I think there we have why it's never explained why they're attacking the Five Points... )

But how do people take this? Certainly the Dead Rabbits aren't racist (Look! A black man! In a church!), and I don't think the film shyed away from showing mob violence on black people (tho it didn't go to show orphanages eing burned down, or churches), but still... how fair do you think his portrayl of the Irish (and the other New Yorkers) is in this film?

And Flux- wqas it actually slow motion? I thought the action was sped up at times... I have no idea why sometimes i have trouble telling the differences between the two...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:37 / 18.01.03
I can't speak definitively on the matter, and my memory is getting fuzzy about this film only a week after seeing it, but I think Scorcese probably used both sped-up and slowed-down images. I can't say I'm a big fan of the technique, whatever it was he used.
 
 
Utopia
23:43 / 18.01.03
I think it's fair because it's fiction. Partly. First of all, how was it "really"? I don't know. We have a pretty good idea from records, etc. (I mean, it wasn't that long ago...), but I wasn't there, and Scorsese wasn't either. So, IMO, that grants the artist freedom to twist the reality of the story however they see fit. Because, see, GoNY doesn't depict 1860's NYC, it depicts something in the filmmakers' minds, which resembles 1860's NYC. Of course, basing it on historical events, the artists do have some responsibility to maintain a semblance of the truth (and I think the Naval bombardment counts as an example of telling the audience something which is just not true in any way), but ultimately it's up to the audience to be aware that this is entertainment, not history.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:40 / 20.01.03
While I agree that the ending sequences seemes to fall apart I was impressed with the performances... DDL of course rocked the big Screen. But Leo & Cam played much better than I expected, though the accents or lack there of where a bit of a laugh.
Lots of strong supporting performances as well, I thought.

Had hoped for a bit more of a "battle" in the end, but sort of enjoyed the od situation of the shrapnel doing the deed. Otherwise Leo was WAYYYY outclassed. Was most disturbed by the death of the Irish Sherif, a cleaver in the back... JEEEZE.

I enjoyed some of the seeming contradictions Leo's out to avange his father but finds himself under the wing of his father's killer. made me wonder if BILL knew all along who leo was & wassort of seeking an attonement. Leo's own loss of heart in the revenge mission. The story had a nice theatric quality... but it seemed like they didn't know how to end it...

still... why DEAD RABBITS?
 
 
Hieronymus
21:52 / 20.01.03
Try here, Tricks.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:11 / 21.01.03
tanks...
 
  
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