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Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Crossroads of Twilight

Tryphena Absent

23:35 / 09.01.03

In what are you currently reading Trijhaos said I'm just about to start Crossroads of Twilight by Robert Jordan. I really don't know why I bother reading this series anymore. Jordan will probably die before he finishes the damned thing.

Obviously this struck a chord with me because I have to reply and it seemed to warrant a new thread...

I suspect that Jordan won't die but he's bound to have a stroke and still attempt to finish the series, his death seems a little too obvious. Recently I've been thinking about just how much I hate this series, I am compelled to finish it because I've been reading the stupid books for about six years, I haven't bought this book yet but know that I will own it by the end of the month.

Why do I hate the Wheel of Time series? It's poorly written, has terrible characterisation - clearly Jordan lacks social skills if he's anything like the people he creates! His story is the same as a hundred fantasy stories that came before and the evil evil people rarely do anything evil.

Why oh why can't they have a battle, kill everyone off and end the whole thing putting poor little me out of my misery?!

12:17 / 10.01.03

So why are you still reading?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

12:51 / 10.01.03

I've been pondering starting a topic on this but at a loss where to begin. Though I generally sneer at soaps on the telly I buy the comic equivelent, and for years was buying the post-Claremont X-Men even though I was saying to myself that the stories weren't as good and they were doing everything they could to get my money for less effort. What stopped me was going to university and my parents refusing to pay for the comics while I was gone. Since then I've tended only towards stuff which is in series, which has a definite end date, or things where I'll buy them until a particular writer finishes, a la New X-Men.

In the one case where there seems to be no definite end, Strangers in Paradise, I finally made the break after a year or two of increasing disatisfaction with the title.

So what is it that makes us stick with stuff we don't really like any more? Is it because from an early age we're led to believe that all stories have an ending, so we keep buying these books hoping that this will be it? Is our subsconsciousness saying, 'well you liked this once? Maybe you'll read this one and it'll be good and you'll get fuzzy feelings again?' Is the compulsion with regards to books, TV shows, CDs etc any different to the compulsion to a certain beer or food or is it the same?

14:52 / 10.01.03

Maybe. But as I've grown older, I've lost a lot of my patience, and have become a convert to the cut-your-losses-and-get-out-early school. Even Alan Moore no longer gets a pass from me, although I know he is unquestionably still capable of genius (in a way that Rob't Jordan, apparently, is not: never read any Jordan myself, so I can't say): when Promethea began to bore me, I dropped it with no regrets.

We started a similar conversation around the time that a lot of info about Star Wars Episode II started leaking out—a conversation which, I'm sorry to say, I was largely responsible for derailing by saying some unnecessarily hurtful things—and the impression I was getting was that the pleasure to be gotten out of something like this lay primarily in bitching about it afterwards with other fans. Which I find interesting and (I have to say) slightly alien: that the devotion is no longer about the books, or the movies, or the comics, but to the idea of being a fan of the books/movies/comics—perhaps even about justifying all the time, money, and headspace that one devoted to the fandom experience back before the series started sucking.

Would it be a horribly glib analogy to compare this phenomenon to that of people who stay in abusive relationships?

Yes, I think it would. But horribly glib or not, it's the best analogy I can think of.

20:56 / 11.10.05

Well, according to Amazon they've just sent me the latest instalment. I'll let you all know if it's shite or not.

Tryphena Absent

22:47 / 11.10.05

I've been wondering when the next one was going to appear. You'll have to tell me what happens with the Daughter of the Nine Moons... if anything happens at all.

P. Horus Rhacoid

23:51 / 11.10.05

From what I've heard Jordan has realized that the series has bloated beyond all semblance of control, and has absolutely totally positively for sure promised that there will probably only be two more books thank fucking christ. Given that somewhere back around book 6 or 7 there was something resembling a plot to advance, it seems like there's a slight chance that at least something will happen, instead of more endless descriptions of the women's clothes. Actually, I read the introduction to Knife of Dreams (the new book) a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure that more happened in 60-odd pages than happened in the entirety of Crossroads.

I'm actually in the process of rereading the series right now. I remember lots and lots of isolated events that are cool- mostly involving Mat- but the writing is about ten times worse than it was my freshman year of high school, and the space between the isolated cool events is becoming increasingly annoying. What's that you say? Mat, Rand, and Perrin each wish they had each other's skill with women? You know, thanks for mentioning that, I'd forgotten the 157 TIMES you mentioned it already. Right now I'm stalled at the beginning of book 4 and I suspect I'll soon resort to skipping the boring parts. Which means I'll be skipping books 8, 9, and 10, with the possible exception of the taint-cleansing, because even if it wasn't particularly well written and sort of didn't make logical sense at times, at least something happened, dammit,

Keith, like a scientist

03:01 / 12.10.05

i picked the new one up, and from everything i've heard, it has a lot more incident.

the last two or three were really snoozers, i agree, but i'm hopeful, judging by the advance comments from fans on this one.

i'll post again once the feel of the book becomes clear.

10:02 / 20.10.05

It's coming along quite well so far.

P. Horus Rhacoid

12:12 / 20.10.05

I guess this'll have mild SPOILERS.

I read this in the bookstore over the last few days. It moved along really well- RJ's faults as a writer are still visible (and I still find the constant descriptions of what people are wearing tiring) but to a lesser degree because stuff is actually happening. A loooot of loose ends get tied up– things which have been hinted at since like book 2 happen, finally– and it never really dragged at any point. If anything parts of it feel a little bit rushed, but frankly given how slowly everything's been going, that's not a complaint at all. Elayne is my least favorite character by far (as usual)– she's pregnant, you see, which means she has crazy mood swings all the time, which RJ feels the need to mention about once a page when she's onscreen– but her plotline has a pretty satisfying ending nonetheless. And Nina, the Mat/Tuon plot does develop significantly. And involves a zebra. It's probably the strongest in the book, though I may just think that because I like Mat.

I frankly don't see how the series is supposed to wrap up in one book after this– there's a ton of stuff that has to happen– but I can't see it taking more than two, so this might be coming to a final, merciful end.

I really liked this. I'd read a couple hundred pages at a time and then find myself eager to come back for more the next day, especially near the end. It's by no means a great book, but it's fun.

Keith, like a scientist

03:25 / 22.10.05

agree with all of above.

not much else to say, really, but I have to co-sign that this one moves along very well, and delivers on various promises, mysteries, and loose ends.

it ends up in a very interesting place, that puts the beginning of the final book in a very interesting place.

it does seem a bit much to wrap up in one more book, but i've read that he is guaranteeing it no matter how long the book has to be to finish the story.

he says that there is one "gasp" moment in this book. i'm not quite sure i know what it is. anyone care to hazard a guess?

Keith, like a scientist

20:23 / 30.03.06

for the small number of Jordan readers, this is very sad news.

*

02:47 / 31.03.06

Well, it's sad news even though I never got past page four on any of his books, honestly. I only didn't like his writing; I wouldn't actually wish a fatal illness on him for that reason.

21:51 / 31.03.06

Yep. He's so gonna die before finishing the series. Tell me that this wasn't planned?!!!

03:42 / 01.04.06

All I ever read of his was some freebie thing that reprinted a third of one of his novels, promo swag from a conference. I couldn't finish even that. And I like over-description and winding-weirding-exploratory narratives - if somebody put the Cavalli summer collection into prose form, I'd probably read it cover to cover. His was just - it's everything that's wrong with David Eddings and Dragonlance books pushed to the fore and totally unselfaware about it.

If there weren't really cool, entertaining things in life, I might've finished that sampler and gone on through the series. But, we have Nabokov and Moorcock and Acker and all. There's movies and music and bright summer days in the park with chocolate and coffee, all laid out on the grass and trying very hard to do nothing.

So, how, in a world as cool and full as what we've got, can people willingly subject themselves - sometimes more than once for the same thing - to stuff they know they aren't going to dig? Masochism? Endurance determination?

The only film I have ever walked out of a theatre to escape, was 'Extreme Ops' and I won't rent it again, just to give it a fresh chance. It was horrible, and that's the end of that.

Harold Bloom gets on my nerves something fierce, so I won't be reading anything of his for entertainment purposes.

Even if you're immortal, life's too short.

Which, isn't to insist that nobody enjoy and partake of something other people don't like. It annoys me to no end, when you totally dig something - 'Split Second' with Rutger Hauer, for instance - and someone comes on with 'oh, you like bad movies' or such. Hell with that. If you like it, if you find value or entertainment in it, then it is good. If 'Mommy Dearest' is really funny to you, then it's a good comedy, and if it creeps you out good and proper, it's horror. But it's good if it works. When it fails, when something just annoys you or leaves you flat and bored, that's where it becomes bad.

And, why would you want to subject yourself, knowingly, to that? Is there a need for closure, a surge in group-bashing a piece, that's that powerful?

11:23 / 17.09.07

Actuating the last step in his diabolical plan, Robert Jordan dares to up and die before finishing The Wheel Of Time.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:34 / 21.09.07

Oh God, he doesn't know what he's done. When I used to work at F*rb*dd*en Pl*n*t we'd get Jordan fanboys coming in and actually being angry and aggressive if we didn't have release dates for the next volume... within a week of the last one being published.

11:07 / 21.09.07

That's 11 volumes of my life I'll never get back again. FFS.

Closed for Business Time

11:13 / 21.09.07

Soooo glad I stopped at vol 5 or 6 now. 11 volumes and still not done? Fuck.

Tryphena Absent

11:19 / 21.09.07

I really hate to do this but ARRGHHHH! He had over 10 goddamn years to finish this series but oh no, instead of tying things up he just kept opening plot point after plot point and describing insipid love lives. I just wanted to know if Rand, Perrin and Mat were going to die. As it turns out they're all still alive and Robert Jordan is dead. RIP RJ although it's not likely, if there is a heaven/hell then you're going to be bothered for eternity by Wheel of Time fans.

I'm only bothered because as a 14 year old I was a member of the RJ mailing list. It was nice.

11:33 / 21.09.07

I've never read Jordan, but everything I've read about him and about the work makes me think that he had a crippling case of writer's block.

No, seriously.

Tryphena Absent

11:40 / 21.09.07

That's 11 volumes of my life I'll never get back again. FFS.

The Daughter of the Nine Moons accidentally murders Mat even though she is deeply in love with him... with one of those knives that she nicks off someone from another country. Faile runs off with Rand Al'Thor, Perrin goes on a crazy rampage and murders the Aes Sedai until finally that Manetheren guy shoots him in the head with a new fangled weapon called a gun. Then everyone gets drunk.

Clearly I need to refresh, I've forgotten quite a lot of the basics.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:46 / 21.09.07

D'you know, it's really sad that he's dead- by all accounts he was a pretty cool guy- but I do remember saying, all those years ago, "how pissed off would all these obnoxious customers be if he died before he got to the end?"

DAMN, I almost wish I still worked there so I could find out.

(And to be fair, none of it was his fault- indeed, they seemed to be more angry at HIM for not having written the next weighty tome in the couple of days it had taken them to read the previous one. Not just frustrated and impatient, mind- actually ANGRY).

Tryphena Absent

12:27 / 21.09.07

You know I'm pretty sure that I once bought one of the Wheel of Time series from you Stoatie.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

14:34 / 21.09.07

can't he just do like everyone else and have his son/wife/whatever finish the story, poorly, using cobbled together bits of notes found in his desk?

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

14:39 / 21.09.07

anyway, I believe that I got hooked largely because I was about 15 and didn't know any better, and it seemed a lot better than David Eddings or Piers Anthony, and I refused to move out of the fantasy/sci fi section of my mom's library.

as for why I kept reading even when the books got emptier and emptier...comfort? like a grilled sandwich the way mom used to make, even if it's not as good as sushi or whatever? it was really relaxing for me to pick up the last book in paperback and plow through it without trying to figure out what the author was trying to tell me or being worried about missing important details, since there didn't seem to be any.

on the other hand, there was something I found a bit worrying - namely that somehow I didn't really notice until this very last book what a ridiculous amount of time he spends describing women being spanked.

Keith, like a scientist

18:57 / 18.12.07

For those keeping track: Rigney's (Jordan) wife Harriet has chosen some guy named Brandon Sanderson to write the final book from notes, audio tapes, etc.

Any Lithers know his novels? Opinions?

06:17 / 21.12.07

Never heard of him but better him than me. The notion of attempting to wrap up the gigantic sprawling mess that the Wheel of Time became in 1 book terrifies me deeply. I remember Jordan saying that he thought the last book would work out to 2000 pages.
I hope Mr. Sanderson knows what he's doing.

22:13 / 21.12.07

I did book coverage for the initial novels (for a production company) and found them a tad windy and drawn out, but as a die hard superhero fan, i can easily see the appeal of "more of the same, please!", whether one has already found JRRT or not. WoT did strike me as derivative of LoTR, but so it goes with titanic classic that influence everyone. It's sad that Jordan was unable to complete the final book though, but it's nice to see that the fans will have closure after so long...

Keith, like a scientist

17:37 / 02.04.09

Final WoT book being divided into 3 volumes due to extreme length. Complete long winded disaster or solution to the complete trainwreck that would result in trying to wrap all plotlines up in 1 volume? Who knows. I've come this far, so I'll go the distance to find out.

From the press release:

Tor Books is proud to announce the November 3rd, 2009 on-sale date for The Gathering Storm, Book Twelve of The Wheel of Time and the first of three volumes that will make up A Memory of Light, the stunning conclusion to Robert Jordan’s beloved and bestselling fantasy series. A Memory of Light, partially written by Jordan and completed by Brandon Sanderson, will be released over a two-year period.

There is a long explanation as to why at Brandon Sanderson's blog.