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Reading

23:42 / 08.01.03

Any comments on the following list?

Calvin Pinchin - Issues in Philosophy
Carl Gustav Jung - Man and His Symbols
Richard Dawkins - The Selfish Gene
Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching
Paul Reps - Zen Flesh, Zen Bones
D. E. Harding - On Having No Head (Zen and the Re-Discovery of the Obvious)
Richard Cavendish - The Black Arts
Israel Regardie - The Middle Pillar (The Balance between Mind and Magic)
R.J. Stewart - Living Magical Arts (Imagination and Magic for the 21st Century)
Sheri S. Tepper - The True Game
Richard Bach - Jonathan Livingstone Seagull

04:07 / 09.01.03

This is quite a good selection. We could add:
Aleister Crowley- Magick in Theory and Practice
Moonchild
The Equinox
The Book of the Law
777
MacGregor Mathers-The Lesser Key of Soloman the King
Israel Regardie- The Golden Dawn

I will write up some more when I have time.

09:18 / 09.01.03

Sounds like quite a diverse list - where did you get it from?
Surplus Xmas pressies

?

Haven't read any of 'em bar Lao Tzu, Richard Dawkins and Richard Cavendish

One thought that struck me was each book - as far as I know - could open doors on a discipline that could take a lot of study.
Lao Tzu, f'instance, you could read for years and not still not understand. Jung the same. Richard Dawkins and the whole genetics field, again, huge area of study - I found it useful to complement Ricahrd Dawkins with Lifelines by Steven Rose, presents a critical point of view of Dawkins reductionism.

The Black Arts is a good intro to historical study of the Hermetic Tradition, not especially deep though (or practical).

13:28 / 09.01.03

... though a taoist sage might say the point is not to "understand"...

What do you want to expand your reading list - or to get comments on those specific titles?

20:48 / 09.01.03

Its a list of books I've put together than define the overlap between my ideas about the occult and the extant dogma on the subject. To put it another way; they're my favourite books.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

20:56 / 09.01.03

Well then it appears to me that you have fairly good taste. Ever read The Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson?

21:25 / 09.01.03

No I haven't. Is that just a question or is it also a recommendation?

Nietzsch E. Coyote

21:46 / 09.01.03

Recomendation, most heartily.

21:50 / 09.01.03

Thank you

22:15 / 09.01.03

Add Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson to that list.

22:59 / 09.01.03

A close friend of mine is currently setting a crystal healing grid in aid of R.A.W. any assistance in distance healing would be gratefully accepted.

CLICK ON THE WILSON

23:02 / 09.01.03

I'd add Richard Bach's Illusions it has a few nice ideas in it.

The Return Of Rothkoid

23:37 / 09.01.03

I'm probably a voice in the wilderness here, but The Illuminatus! Trilogy shat me to tears. I threw it across the room when I've finished because it annoyed me so much. Ill-written in-jokery aiming for greatness.

But all this's been said and flamed before. But yeah. Just a thought, especially if you've read as broadly as your list indicates.

19:29 / 10.01.03

"But all this's been said and flamed before. But yeah. Just a thought, especially if you've read as broadly as your list indicates."

I think Illuminatus! is most effective if it's the first step out of the mainstream, in which case it can work as a total expansive mind-fuck. Reading it was for me what reading The Invisibles has been for a lot of people here. That being said, if one is already immersed in That Sort Of Thing, Illuminatus! is probably not essential.

I still really liked it, though. The follow up trilogy, Schrodinger's Cat I found personally more useful, but some of its impact draws on knowledge from the previous series (it can still stand alone, though, and I think it's a better work). The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles I think is the best of the lot, and Masks of the Illuminati is loads of fun.

All in all, I think Wilson's best function is as an introduction, or as a compiler of useful material from a number of different sources which can then be pursued in their own right. But it does sound, Evy, as though you're probably more than a little ahead of the game. Borrow the book(s) or buy them used, but I wouldn't suggest putting off anything pressing to make time for them.

}L{/b>

20:43 / 10.01.03

Other books you might find interesting, based on the list you've supplied:

Wilhelm Reich - The Function of the Orgasm
Erik Davis - Techgnosis
Susan Blackmore - The Meme Machine
Stanislav Grof - The Holotropic Mind

It's sadly out of print, but if you come across a copy of John C. Lily's "Programming and Metaprogramming in the Human Biocomputer", it's well worth checking out.

Nietzsch E. Coyote

20:48 / 10.01.03

That hilarious,

3 out of the five I have just purchased recently. So they are good are they?

21:00 / 10.01.03

Heh! Grof tends to get a bit repetitive/new age for my tastes and Reich's style of writing has a bad tendency of putting me to sleep if I'm not careful. I read the Blackmore book in one go and spent several days having intense difficulty interacting with other human beings. So yeah, all pretty good, imo.

If you recently purchased the last book on the list, I'm going to start begging you for a photocopy, because my version went walkabout several years ago.

21:10 / 10.01.03

Richard...

[gulp]

...Bach?!

23:12 / 10.01.03

Well, I gots a copy of "Centre of the Cyclone" I don't really want if you wanna play swopsies.

· N · E · T ·

08:14 / 12.01.03

Here is my list, leaving out the titles that have already been mentioned, all magickal in their own right:
"Godel, Escher, Bach: The Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter
"The Structure of Magic" By Richard Bandler and John Grinder
"Liber Null and Psychonaut" by Phil Hines
"The Divine Madman" by Keith Dowman
"Days of War Nights of Love" by the Crimethinc Workers Collective
"The User's Manual For The Brain" by Bob G. Bodenhamer and L. Michael
Hall
"Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" by Hunter S. Thompson
"The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer
"Conversations With God" by Neale Donald Walsch

08:39 / 12.01.03

Carl Gustav Jung - Man and His Symbols--Probably Jung's most accessible book. I liked Hoeller's book on Jung's Seven Sermons to the Dead quite a lot.

Richard Dawkins - The Selfish Gene--Interesting, but not (as I recall) very supportive of or conducive to magickal inquiry. Dawkins is a pretty thorough-going mechanist. Interesting perspective on genetics, though.

Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching--Depends a lot on the translation. I'm fond of the Gia-fu Feng/Jane English version, actually.

Paul Reps - Zen Flesh, Zen Bones--Excellent. Reps is remarkable; I got quite a lot out of this book when I was beginning to learn a thing or two--I still do, for that matter--as well as his 10 Ways to Meditate. I think the latter is still available, but no longer published (as was my copy) with a wooden cover; one was also provided as well with a sandpaper bookmark, for meditatively smoothing the volume...

D. E. Harding - On Having No Head (Zen and the Re-Discovery of the Obvious)--Also wonderful, as are all of Harding's books. He has a pretty unique experiential approach to Zen Mind...

Richard Cavendish - The Black Arts--A fair historical survey of magic, but containing nothing much in the way of practical information or guidance.

Israel Regardie - The Middle Pillar (The Balance between Mind and Magic)--A good book, if a teeny bit narrow in focus. The Middle Pillar can be a very valuable exercise, and this is pretty much the definitive reference on it.

Sheri S. Tepper - The True Game--I've read and enjoyed something by Tepper, but I can't think of what it was...

Richard Bach - Jonathan Livingstone Seagull--Um. Well. Frankly, ack. Aaaaaaaaaaccccccccccck. Fluffy, gooey, sappy, new-agey, be-yourself-y. Not my cup of tea, anyway.

I might add Steinbrecher's Inner Guide Meditation, Fries' Visual Magick, Tetworth's Wielding Power, Illuminatus! by all means (as well as Wilson's Prometheus Rising and Quantum Psychology), Hesse's Demian (not to mention Steppenwolf and Magister Ludi), , Straub's Shadowland, Joyce's Ulysses...

I could probably go on for a day or two, but that's a start.

20:07 / 12.01.03

How about...

Summoning Up Philip (don't remember author.)

This orange book on Voodoo. I'll post the full name and author later.

Secrets of Shamanism: Tapping the Spirit Power Within You
by Jose Stevens and Lena S. Stevens

and more to come.

05:34 / 14.01.03

Illuminatus - absolutley! That and Cosmic Trigger 1 (RAW) were my first big literary mindfucks 12 years ago, Invisibles being the second just a year ago.

Archaic Revival & True Hallucinations - Terence McKenna

The Law is for All - Aleister Crowley

Book of Lies (falsely so called) is also great, if you like really having to sift through very vague clues (they are "the mysteries" after all). Trying to understand this book, along with his Book of Thoth, led me to many amazing texts.

Snow crash - Neal Stephenson

I Am That - Sri Nisargaddata

Ubik - Phillip K. Dick

Hakim Bey - T.A.Z.

The Holographic Universe - MIchael Talbot

Liber Null & Psychonaut - Peter J. Carrol

A Separate Reality - Carlos Castaneda

07:30 / 14.01.03

Did you like that Nisargdatta book, Chris? I thought it was .. eck, but I only read bits of it int he shop - please tell me why I'm wrong.

Couple of faves from me -
The Black Goddess and the Sixth Sense -Peter Redgrove
Cutting through Spritual Materialism - Choygam Trungpa
Light at the Center - Agenhananda Bharati
Nightside of Eden - Kenneth Grant
and of course, the Wilhelm translation of the I Ching.

Sure I could go on for a day or two as well...

the king of byblos

08:04 / 14.01.03

cf: also
Rudy Rucker 'white light' (a post-Einstein 'Flatland', http://www.mathcs.sjsu.edu/faculty/rucker/)
Robert A Heinlein 'stranger in a strange land' (how organised religion works and why it can get so fct)
Rupet Sheldrake 'seven experiments that could change the world'
(perfect antidote to Dawkins)
Wade Davis 'The sepent and the Rainbow' (hard-nose anthropologist gives up and goes native in Haiti)
Robert Graves 'the white goddess' (where myth and language comes from usefull after The Book of Thoth!)

these are all books 'about' rather than being 'instruction manuals' but are useful background.

p.s. has anyone got, seen, know the location of a copy of Earth Inferno by Austin Osman Spare?

18:13 / 14.01.03

Illmatic, I found the Nisargadatta book to be very profound... when I could understand what the hell he was talking about. You have to read it in fairly large chunks to get the gyst of what he's really saying. And he throws out some great metaphors along the way.

Ex: describing human existence, he compares life to celluloid film rolling along a projector - the true nature of reality is the light shining through the frames of the film, projecting the illusion of time and form on the wall.

He was a student of Ramana Maharshi, who was one of India's greatest realized masters. Nisargadat has continued Maharshi's teachings.

· N · E · T ·

18:52 / 14.01.03

I suppose "Liber Null & Psychonaut" is by Peter J. Carrol... oops. I'll second (or is it third now) "Quantum Psychology" and "Prometheus Rising" by RAW. I also highly recommend "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz.

Ahem... *boogly*

Sorry, I just had to get that out.

10:38 / 19.01.03

I would add Reposessed by Julian Cope. Especally the last few chapters. - some exaples of preactical Shamanism.

Real Magic by Phillp Bonewits. I think its out of print but it has a good section on Magical Self defence if memory serves me.

Could I also ass No Logo-theres stuff in there a bout manipulationg enviromenst and through prosesses- Complay Logos as magical sigils

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:45 / 19.01.03

If you like the Carroll, then Dave Lee's "Chaotopia" is pretty good as regards application.

And if you want "enlightened" fiction , then Zindell's "Neverness" series (well, specifically "The Broken God", but it's not as good fiction-wise if you start there). A pleasantly cut'n'paste/utilitarian attitude towards paradigms.

12:12 / 19.01.03

p.s. has anyone got, seen, know the location of a copy of Earth Inferno by Austin Osman Spare?

I've got a copy, in From the Inferno to Zos (Volume 1) - Madrake Press. (That's Mandrake of Essex, not Mandrake of Oxford). It's a full set of the writings published in his lfetime, plus other lots of other images and ephemera. Got mine from Watkins Books (16 Cecil Court, Charing Cross). But it did cost me £50 - I think it's worth it but don't knowif I'd pay this for Earth Inferno alone if I'd already got his other stuff. It's more a weird illustrated allegory rather than a specific magical text.

Chris: I'm sure that Nisarg Datta book is good but the fractions I read of it got on my nerves - mainly the questions from students rather than anything he said. From what I understand of Nisarg Datta, he had one instruction from a teacher which he simply followed for 3 years or so until he had his own realisation. When flicking through that book, I wished all the students had shown the same singluarity of focus and got on with it rather than asking hime endless questions. Not to knock it too much, probably just me being ignorant and snarky