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What I want to do with British schools.

 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:11 / 23.12.02
Ever since I became a resident of Barbelith I've been thinking about the social education that it provides me with, it's not that it's this major thing but people are constantly providing each other with their own experiences and it becomes advice, even when that's not the purpose of the conversation.

At school I had PSE lessons, Personal and Social Education, and they were hopeless but I know what I want to do to them and just the amount of reform they need in order to be changed in to practical lectures. Something that the kids can use, the whole system needs to be changed, it needs to be made sensible.

This wasted time, an hour a week in the lives of secondary school children, can be used to discuss aesthetics at first, sex education but not that lame and pathetic stuff they do now. I mean actual sex education and what-it-says-in-magazines and real discussion of homosexuality and the societal approach to sex. Then drugs, what to do and what not to do, an actual sensible approach making things normal and introduced to the world in that way. No glamour, nothing hidden, presented on a plate. The naughty children take stuff to be bad, so stop it being bad (I don't mean legalisation), simple facts. Clearly I'd need a change in government policy but I'm set on this, I mean it, I actually have a sense of righteous enthusiasm (scary!). Our attitude to kids is so completely wrong that it's laughable.

So I have this thing in my head. This thing that I just feel like I need to do. I want to know if anyone here can tell me what postgraduate education I should consider and who I should talk to about starting on this route? I'm aware that this requires overhauling the whole system and a ridiculous amount of research so is there anyone who can recommend people to speak to about this kind of thing?
 
 
telyn
00:56 / 23.12.02
Let me just check...

You want to protect kids by making them aware that they are responsible for their own lives and explicitly giving them the information they need to be able to take care of themselves and others around them.

wow. go for it. why has no one done this before?

Ok - so you will need intellectual and maybe social clout to get the government to support you for a nation-wide change. You need to prove that this is a good idea, both from practical experience and theoretically / financially.

Part 1,

Start by running a pilot scheme in some schools?

Either do this by approaching schools with your idea as an external expert (so maybe some studies in pyschology of young people especially)

or

Work from inside a school, become a teacher and run a pilot course from there. I don't think this would work too well, and would probably divert your energies away from where you want them to be.

Would some expertise in social work help? maybe that would be a route to get a scheme of the ground.

Part 2,

You need to prove to the government that this is a financially rewarding idea.

Query: it would be worth investigating if cigarette smoking has dropped in the demographic that has been educated explicitly about the effects of smoking. If it hasn't and there are no legitimate reasons (eg poor teaching so that it belittles the importance of what is being taught, a significant proportion of the group failed to receive this teaching) then I think you will have huge problems instigating this change. Any government will want its investment to be good value.

Specifically about drugs (because it still carries legal penalties) you would need some evidence to show to the government that telling kids about drugs accurately would reduce the numbers that took drugs (unlikely I think) or that this information would reduce the number of fatalities or serious injuries as a result.

Foot note :

In order to teach this course you would need access to a large scale long term (decades perhaps) study of drug users, showing the effects of taking something regularly now, in 5 years, in 10, in 20. Whatever the results are, positive or negative. This information would also be very important in your argument with the government, either 'look this stuff is good for you' or 'see how bad it is we need to tell our kids this'.

Also (just to be really obvious) would be worth checking for any other schemes that are run with this aim in mind, whether privately or through a school. just in case!

(apologies for slightly incoherent / possibly bossy sounding - not meant to be! / not fully thought out stuff. best I could do in the time)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:03 / 23.12.02
So my questions, from what you've said, are these:

In Barbelither's opinions should I...
seek further training in social education, psychology or something other?
seek affiliation with a political party from, like, now?
seek volunteer work covering some of the areas that I'm interested in introducing?
 
 
The Strobe
14:42 / 23.12.02
why has no one done this before?

Simple. To trivalise my answer: Daily Mail readers.

What do I mean? Well, basically, however liberal you are, you will always be too liberal for some people. And what you're dealing with here is very dangerous ground - the big stuff you've mentioned you're interested in, sexuality (rather than sex) and drugs education.

Schools are part of the government-controlled part of society. (Independent schools aren't, but they do follow similar guidelines, and the same syllabi, etc). The government has made some things illegal. And the phrasing of some of what you're suggesting is almost impossible. Are you advocating that drugs are bad? Probably, you're a school but you know some kids are going to go off and do them. It's not enough to say: "Right. Ecstacy is illegal, OK? Good. But if you are going to take it..." because "illegal" is not actually a strong enough word. Most kids have drunk underage, many smoke underage, not to mention sex pre-16 or buying National Lottery tickets or any other infractions of the law. Illegal is an incentive to many kids. But I think you'd find the concept of saying "Drugs are bad for you, but if you ARE going to do them..." tough because, well, you don't necessarily think they're bad.

And there's the parental angle. A protection thing. We're bright young things at the moment, we can cope with truth, etc, etc, but the parental viewpoint changes things. And sometimes, you know, even open-minded parents want to do these things for themselves, when THEY think they're children need to know. OK, so many parents know jack shit about ecstacy and other controlled substances, and people who do know might be of some use. But if you tell the truth about something, there will be parents who will write to the Daily Mail, and the headlines will say: "CHILDREN TAUGHT HOW TO SHOOT UP!!!"

And that's the thing. The world isn't full of people like you, or Barbelites. The world out there, the 56 or however many million people in the British Isles... on average, aren't as clever as you. Sorry. But you've got to take that into account.

You want to protect kids by making them aware that they are responsible for their own lives and explicitly giving them the information they need to be able to take care of themselves and others around them.

This, in a nutshell, IS a great idea. It is also about 1% workable. Kids don't just get given information; they get a whole lot more besides; emphasis, slant, encouargement the teacher didn't know about themselves. And believe me, the whole "we were taught about it so it must be ok" thing WILL come up, no matter how much you teach them that these things are BAD. Come on... how many anti-smoking classes at school worked? Even the one where your teachers wheels out the jar with the smoker's preserved, tarrified lung in? Clearly not many.

I'm not sure your methods of implentation are entirely successful, harmony. They're not so much Part 1 and 2 as about Part 5 and 6; there's so much more to come before them, and even when you get to your ideas there are so many vital details to be fleshed out - and the details will keep piling up, and we have to be accurate about them. And finanical reward isn't necessary. Viability, perhaps, and they obviously don't want to make a loss... but you're not going to make a profit on telling kids that drugs are bad, mmkay, but they're worse if you're ill-informed? And unlike the cigarette industry, which is legal, and we can get relatively accurate figures relatively easily for its profits and expenditures... the drugs industry isn't legal, there are masses of transactions that go on without record, and arresting and imprisoning people isn't the same as showing usage going down. It's far more difficult to quantitatively analyse Britain's drugs industry; Customs and Excise tell us how much they've got, and estimate (iirc) how much has been shipped in... but it's all behind closed doors. Do you want an official government watchdog for it or something?

Drugs are a hot topic at the moment, you know, decriminilisation of this, changing of category - the recent shifting around of Cannabis' status only serving to confuse the public... one mention of "change in status" and they're off, sod the small print... so I don't know how well this would go down with local or national politics.

I think what you really need to do is work out precisely what you want to do, and how much you're prepared to compromise. Because you're going to have to. Single-handedly, and coming from the position you are, you're going to be lucky to get anywhere. And you are going to get into serious wranglings about what people can and can't say, and what's information and what's promotion. And one teacher's information is another parent's promotion. And believe me, you can't just get into a school and start teaching this off your own bat, no approval, before it gets found out. You need all the support you can get. So you're going to have to start very slowly. To be honest, this is not five years' work, or ten; it's a lifetime's. What you've described is the endpoint. You've now got to work out ALL the intermediate steps, and there are a lot.

It's a great idea in practice. I agree entirely. Practicality? Not great; teachers really are overworked and underpaid enough as it is, and being retrained in something many will have already studied won't go down well. And then there's government policy - remember section 28 and promoting homosexuality in schools, etc? - and local policy, and the experience you will need, and twenty billion tons of luck...

It's just too much. You're bang on, great ideas, but they just aren't workable in Britain the way it is. And we can all say "but it should be" and slam this shitty government and all the others, good or bad, before them (though in general, "The Government" are always bad in the public eye), and say what we'd do if we ruled the world... but it's never that simple.

(phew. hope that makes some sense, folks. and i didn't really touch on the sexuality issue; i'm sure we'll get around to that later).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:53 / 23.12.02
Right, when things are marketed towards parents in this country they are without doubt told something is right. Has anyone ever tried to just present this kind of thing as sensible? Every single person my age who I talk to knows people who take all kinds of crap in a completely uninformed way and we also all know that we've been misinformed through school and that everyone's going to do whatever the fuck they feel like anyway. So why has no one tried to approach it in this way?

You do know, don't you, that half the problem in changing these things doesn't even live with the people who are against what I'm saying but with the people who say, intheoryit'sgreatbuttheywon'tletithappen. You are the person who won't let me change things, I'm sorry, the Daily Mail is fickle but people who think it's a nice idea but that you can't begin to change your surroundings... I'm not talking about planting a bomb, I'm talking about a reasonable way towards intellectually fighting for something that should have been instituted ten years ago.

So, please anyone with suggestions, answer my questions because baby you just convinced me, it's time to do something constructive.
 
 
The Strobe
20:51 / 23.12.02
I will let you try.

I have never said I won't let you try.

I've possibly suggested that it might take more time and effort than your post suggests, and that you might be disappointed with the results, and when someone with authority suggets you compromise (which you don't want to do, obviously, because compromise misses your point), you might not like it.

I think it's a great idea, but I'm not the person saying no. I'm saying yes, but also: don't say I told you so. And they might not say no, and I might be wrong. You asked for opinions and I said "woah, hold up a sec, it's Daily-Mail reading world out there... you don't know what you're in for."

Anyhow, sorry I didn't answer your questions. Sorry I spoke, really. I am not your enemy. I have no advice to give on your questions; I was commenting on your premise. Which, apparently, I was not meant to. Apologies.

(And do you think this should move to Head Shop or Switchboard or somewhere, because it seems that's where the conversation should be going? Or are we meant to keep it light and fluffy?)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:41 / 23.12.02
I don't want to make you feel bad Paleface but I am going to comment on the entire nature of your post now that I not seething with fustrated anger at you. My post was optimistic because it's something that I am interested in doing and my enthusiasm was coming through. I'm not a fool as you should know by now and everything you said was very obvious, of course people wouldn't like it because they wouldn't understand it but that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen eventually. Yes, it will take a lifetime to get something like that running but why are you telling me this, you should know that if I post something like that on Barbelith I've thought about it, a lot, even if it doesn't come across in the post. Rather then making an assumption about what I'm proposing maybe it would be better for you to have questioned exactly what I would include in such a program and that comment about ecstasy... well yeah obviously having done that particular illegal drug I'd think it was enough to educate secondary age kids in such a pathetic way.

I asked for a constructive way to go about starting along this line, if what you had to say had been constructive in any way I would not have reacted so angrily. Instead I get a few points thrown at me about people who obviously wouldn't like this idea and something about section 28. Did my questions about political affiliation and further taining totally escape you? I'm serious about this. Go figure! I know it's not workable now but I also know that the initial stages of constructing this would take at least ten years, they just gave gender rights to transexuals, I've got a fair chance that by the time this is all worked out that nasty piece of law's going to be thrown out of the window.
 
  
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