Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Laboratory >

So what happens when earth is destroyed in the future?

06:07 / 22.12.02

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't our sun eventually super-nova and destroy the earth? I know it's a long ways down the road, but what happens as that time comes closer? And which generations responsibility is it to start planning ahead? I assume space travel, and colonization of other planets is the answer, and if the human race started working together how long do you think it would take? I'm curious as to how you think it would all go down.

The Photographer in Blowup

10:58 / 22.12.02

Space Travel? For where, Mars? you don't think that supernova is going to spare Mars, do you? I doubt any place in the solar system would be safe, and i doubt we can find a way of getting out of it before that supernova bursts.

Besides, even if we could run to another planet, what would be the chances of it having water and breathable atmosphere? If we had nanotechnology, we could actually stand a chance, as water and oxygen could be synthetized from useless atoms.

Let's face it, the next generations are fucked; besides, no one will be alive to see the supernova; everyone is going to die in less than 50 years due to lack of water, unless we have that precious nanotechnology working.

13:15 / 22.12.02

Well I was hoping we could travel to other solar systems by the time the sun went super-nova. But perhaps you're right. Future generations may be fucked.

The Photographer in Blowup

14:51 / 22.12.02

Maybe i was too negative.

Like i said, if we master nanotechnology, we can produce unlimited amounts of any resource, so Earth might actually be a utopic haven 50 years from now.

16:33 / 22.12.02

Sun's not going nova for 50-60 million years. I wouldn't worry too much about it—the Earth will be a dead husk long, long before that: its internal heat will long since be spent, it atmosphere decayed. And most likely our Sun will expand into a red giant as it cools over the course of years, consuming the inner planets in its corona, before collapsing inwards on itself before its core explodes.

One way or the other, the Earth will be long gone by the time of the supernova. And given the time frame, it's highly unlikely that the human race as such will exist anywhere by that point.

Bottom line? Yes, you will have to pay off your student loans.

08:16 / 23.12.02

I dont exactly think humans should colonize the universe... we cant even look after our own home. We need to solve all our worldly differences, and evolve into higher beings... look at our so called civilised world, a war, pending, in the name of obliteration of evil, by a man so warped by his own greed. Starvation, hatred, we live in a horrible world. I for one wouldn't hold it against the universe to erradicate us. I blame religion. "God" left us when it "created" us. We hold too tight... weve created a false society around belief... let it go, in the words of a great man "its just a ride" KILL THE HUMANS!!!!!!!!!!

The Photographer in Blowup

08:38 / 23.12.02

It's not that i don't agree with you, Shiva, oh God of Destruction, but what's the point of then trying to transcend into a harmonious world and solve all problems, if all that would later be destroyed by a great bal of fire?

Another thing, God didn't leave us; the people who invented that crap of religion only understood that one day Earth would be in a really tight spot, and that there would come no god to save them, because he never existed, so they had to fabricate that lie that he left us so we would take care of ourselves, so they wouldn't have to explain why he never shows up to save the day.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:01 / 23.12.02

Unless we're actually going to get some kind of down'n'dirty teccie stuff about how best to avoid the species dying when the Earth goes Foom, which seems unlikely, this should be moved. If we're talking sci-fi, then the Creation is the place. If we're just talking then the Conversation will do.

The Photographer in Blowup

11:15 / 23.12.02

Would you qualify down'n'dirty teccie stuff as something that still doesn't exist, but is currently being developed, because if so that's what i'm doing in mentioning nanotechnology as a viable solution.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:32 / 23.12.02

You're right in saying that nanotechnology is currently being developed (fascinating field, that)> However, the technology is still very much in its infancy-- we don't even have nanobots capable of picking your nose, let alone compensating for the loss of our planet's power source, the Sun. That's definately in the realms of speculation.

(Incidentally, a topic move isn't a criticism-- it's just an attempt to transplant a thread to the forum where it'll thrive.)

12:12 / 23.12.02

Would you qualify down'n'dirty teccie stuff as something that still doesn't exist, but is currently being developed - Rosa

Yes, but your claims for the abilities of nanobots, as well as your predictions for our future resource problems seem somewhat unsupported. Feel free to correct me, though I would point out that we may not agree on what is "obvious".

12:35 / 23.12.02

I don't know about the rest of you, but by the time the world ends, I expect I will have become a buddha and created my own universe to play in. I suspect I'll shed a tear and raise a toast to the world of my pre-transcendence.

The Photographer in Blowup

16:09 / 23.12.02

(Incidentally, a topic move isn't a criticism-- it's just an attempt to transplant a thread to the forum where it'll thrive.)

I know it wasn't criticism, nor did i assume it was.

I don't mind where it stays, as long as posts continue to arrive.

The Photographer in Blowup

16:12 / 23.12.02

Yes, but your claims for the abilities of nanobots, as well as your predictions for our future resource problems seem somewhat unsupported. Feel free to correct me, though I would point out that we may not agree on what is "obvious".

I never said i was some authority on nanotechnology, nor do i pretend to hold all answers to our problems; it was merely an opinion based on the little i know about it.

If you disagree, you simply post a new idea.

The Photographer in Blowup

18:24 / 23.12.02

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't our sun eventually super-nova and destroy the earth? I know it's a long ways down the road, but what happens as that time comes closer?

I'm not an astronomer, but isn't it true that Earth is getting closer and closer to the sun? If so, then i assume our planet will dry up and become a sterile piece of rock; but Earth is moving closer very slowly, so it won't be an immediate danger.

But because the ozone layer is being destroyed, the temperature will rise sooner than we expect; and i'm not talking about the old-fashioned talk about the poles melting and drowning the world - that's bullshit, they coul never cover the entire planet - but about significant changes in the world climate, like green places becoming sterile deserts, and vice-versa - at least that's what i read.

And which generations responsibility is it to start planning ahead?

I suppose it was the generations before us that began destroyng the Ozone layer, so our generation and next must solve it, but...

I assume space travel, and colonization of other planets is the answer, and if the human race started working together how long do you think it would take? I'm curious as to how you think it would all go down.

... With a war impeding on Iraq so the USA can get its oil (no, i don't believe Iraq is a danger to our planet, no more than America is at the moment) do you think humans will ever get along, or in time to save the world from extinction?

But if such happened, travelling to a virgin planet abundant in resources would be a good solution, as long as we could learn with our past mistakes.

Either that or becoming Buddhas and create our own universe to play in; except i suspect we wouldn't shed a tear and raise a toast to the world of our pre-transcendence.

20:41 / 23.12.02

Didn't i read somewhere that according to some scientists the ozone layer is closing up far sooner than expected? damn jack only 50-60 million years? my 'world books' told me it was 5 billion years when i was a lad.

21:43 / 23.12.02

Well, you know--what's a few powers of ten between friends?

The Photographer in Blowup

21:57 / 23.12.02

Didn't i read somewhere that according to some scientists the ozone layer is closing up far sooner than expected?

Hum, correct me if i'm very wrong, but isn't the reverse happening, as in the ozone layer is opening up, and that's why the temperatures are risisng like lava from a volcano?

23:17 / 23.12.02

i think one of the science heads should jump in here to correct me, but i thought global warming and the ozone hole were unrelated.

23:18 / 23.12.02

oh yeah rosa i think the ozone holes receding due to all those bans on cfc's a decade or more ago.

00:59 / 24.12.02

I never said i was some authority on nanotechnology, nor do i pretend to hold all answers to our problems; it was merely an opinion based on the little i know about it. - L.M. Rosa

I don't want to give you a hard time, but I think that science issues can be pretty tricky and clouded as it is. As far as I'm aware, your views on nanotechnology, global warming and the ozone layer are unsupported or extreme exaggeration. I could be wrong, of course, which is why I asked you for your reasons. On the whole I think it would be helpful if a wild guess is labelled as such. In some sense, I think the rigour here should strive to match that in the Headshop - though my opinion counts for no more than yours.

Well, you know--what's a few powers of ten between friends? - Jack Fear

Whats the betting that this will be the signal for the end of the world?

As to the question of what to do when the earth is no longer viable, there are always colony ships. You build a spaceship with a viable ecosystem that travels at sub-light speeds. The original crew may not arrive at the destination, but their descendents may. Essentially, the technology exists to build a colony ship now. Finding a habitable planet is more problematic, but there have been lots of advances of late in that direction.

The Photographer in Blowup

10:03 / 24.12.02

i think one of the science heads should jump in here to correct me, but i thought global warming and the ozone hole were unrelated.

global warming is caused because of the release of CO2 into the atmosphere, producing the Greenhouse effect - covering Earth with carbon dioxide (and other gases), so that when sun rays hit Earth they can't leave, and it gets warmer.

And the ozone layer is being destroyed due to the CFC we find in refrigerators, and spray cans - but remember that CFC's are one of these gases that with CO2 are producing the greenhouse effect.

The destruction of the Ozone Layer is not causing the Global Warming; it is actually the opposite

14:15 / 24.12.02

Ozone blocks UV light; the greenhouse gases trap warm air. Related phenomena, but not exactly the same. The problem with the ozone hole is more about cancer and less about melting ice caps (although having a bunch more UV flooding onto the Earth's surface isn't exactly cooling us off any).
Here's more info that should clarify things. Heh.

------

Our sun will also never supernova - it's not big enough.
Not with a bang, but a whimper.

The core will eventually turn into what we call a white dwarf star, which is an extremely small (roughly Earth sized) dense star. A white dwarf does not generate energy so it will just slowly cool as it shines. The outer layers of the Sun will turn into what we call a "planetary nebula" (although it has nothing to do with planets) and gradually drift out into the interstellar medium. Planetary nebulae are some of the most beautiful objects you can see in the night sky. Shown below is the ring nebula...

The Photographer in Blowup

17:49 / 24.12.02

Ozone blocks UV light; the greenhouse gases trap warm air. Related phenomena, but not exactly the same.

I didn't say they were the same.

But if CFC is responsible for the greenhouse effect, thus global warming, and if the global warming is slowly destroying the ozone layer, along with CFC and other gases, then there is a connection, as remote as it can be.

But i know they are two distinct problems.

Anyway, if the sun becomes a white dwarf star, does that mean we're safe?

08:26 / 25.12.02

All we need to do is perfect reality simulation to where it can be run on a quantum processor that compresses the entire timeline of the simulated reality into one moment. Then, enter the simulation. In effect, one exits to a new universe, one of our own design (and hopefully an improvement over this one), escaping any fate of this one. All we need is a singularity...

Budda's got the right idea.

Aethelwine Jedi

11:18 / 25.12.02

Erm. Last I knew, the ozone layer tends to frequently both expand and close, so whether it's got larger or smaller recently depends upon who you ask and what they want to believe. Unfortunately, I have precisely bupkiss in the way of data to back this up at the moment, but since it's really something I should look in to, mebbe I'll come up with something eventually... Although I quietly suspect that no-one has anything akin to a clue as to wtf is going on since there's so much contradictory crap out there. But hey, a truth is out there, just need to get off my arse and find it.
The only thing I'm currently quite sure about is the massive increase in cancer in Australian farmers due to the decrease in the ozone layer over there. But, this might not necessarily signify a widening of the hole in ozone layer per se, since the hole itself tends to move about a bit. It could have just been over somewhere uninhabited until (relatively) recently.

K, babbling now, shutting up.

18:25 / 25.12.02

CFC's are responsible for destroying the ozone layer thus creating the hole in the ozone. CO2 and other various emisions are responsible for creating an ozone layer (and smog) thus causing global warming since ozone tends to reflect heat (actually heat causing radiation) which would have otherwise escaped into space. The reason the two effects dont neutralize each other is because of air currents. By the time CFCs have attained an altitude high enough to damage the ozone they have been ferried by air eddys down to the southern hemisphere. Smog on the other hand tends to stay put (a la L.A., Mexico City, etc.)

Also I doubt very much that the sun will go nova in 50-60 million years. It's more like 2 or 3 billion. And that's if the sun will go nova. More likely due to its small stature it will simply expand for some time before shrinking onto itself. No explosion or anything of such sort. Come on people this is 6th grade astronomy!

02:26 / 26.12.02

The sun's death will fuck over the earth no matter what happens. It'll most likely be a white dwarf which is not nearly bright or warm enough to maintain the earth at a habitable temperature.

However, the idea of colonizing other planets brings up another issue. If any such colonization takes place, it'll have to be done on very large, self-sufficient ships that have environments of their own. These environments will necessitate the sort of conscious action and micromanagement that we seem to be so poor at on our current spaceship. In other words, we're going to have to learn it eventually. Possibly on something smaller than earth.