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Best SciFi book ever

 
  

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Quantum
10:22 / 09.10.03
Gibson was superceded by Stephenson who in turn will be replaced by Alastair Reynolds. None of them are anywhere near good enough to write the best scifi ever.
Which by the way is The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Heinlein, better even than stranger in a a strange land.
Best modern scifi is clearly Banks, the culture novels, especially the player of games (or maybe Consider Phlebas for space opera excitement).
 
 
ghadis
10:31 / 09.10.03
One book to choose is tricky and it seems i may agree with many of the books above (although i haven't yet read Neuromancer and i think i'm subconciously waiting until theres just a bit more of a gap between now and the 80s!) such as Dicks' Ubik.

I think i'll go with Karel Capeks' 'War with the Newts'. Dutch seamen discover an island of intellegent Newts who are taught to talk, dig for pearls and fight sharks and are soon spread across the world for various commercial and milatary purposes. The Newts soon develop their own complex and advanced civilisation and the inevitable war follows. Written in 1936 by the Czech Capek the book stands comparisons with Swift and Orwell (Animal Farms Sci-Fi right? Talking pigs and all?) and is a very clear influence on Vonnegut (Sirens of Titan is one of my other 'Best ')
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:53 / 09.10.03
On which note, can someone explain to me the connection between this whole newts issue and the genderwar SF which was prevalent for a while?
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
12:30 / 09.10.03
my top sci-fi book would be Dune but with honourable runners up going to Left Hand of Darkness and Consider Phlebas.

all three are exciting fun genre busting gooby goodness. (technically speaking)
 
 
rizla mission
13:37 / 09.10.03
Neuromancer was epochal, in the sense that it defined a brief moment in science fiction and possibly also in the western world. It was like something Arthur C. might have written if the eighties had been his decade. It wasn't the best SciFi book ever - as if you could actually have such a thing.

Oddly, Neuromancer is perhaps my least favourite of the Gibson books I've read. I guess it's destined to be the famous one in that it's the book that crystalised the whole Cyberpunk thing, but to my mind Count Zero or Idoru are equally good if not better.
 
 
espy
21:48 / 12.10.03
I've just been introduced to the Philip K Dick world of books and I'm completely enjoying them. The Valis trilogy is my favorite so far, and from this thread I'm assuming I'll like Neuromancer just as much? Is it along the same lines as Dick's novels?
 
 
Thjatsi
05:37 / 13.10.03
Lurid, I don't understand how you can get so excited about Last and First Men. Stapledon spends the entire book sadistically stomping out humanity, followed by raising them up so he can crush them again. By the time he gets to the last men, humans have fought for survival through various incarnations across several planets, only to find out that their entire species is about to be destroyed.

When I finished reading that book, I felt an unyielding sense of despair, akin to the abyss-like feeling I receive when I ponder what it would be like to not exist.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:39 / 13.10.03
Perdido Street Station having already been mentioned, I feel I should (unless I already did, in which case I shall again) mention David Zindell's "Requiem for Homo Sapiens" sequence, prologied by Neverness. Beautiful. Just fucking beautiful. Not sure if they're the best ever, but they are indeed beautiful. Warrior poets. Nobody's come up with anything that good since, unless we're allowed to count Pullman's Armoured Bears.
 
 
superdonkey
17:46 / 13.10.03
I don't know about "best ever", but probably my favorite for the last few years is Schizmatrix Plus.
 
 
superdonkey
17:50 / 13.10.03
OOPS, yeah forgot about PKD and the Valis trilogy.

I also have a very warm spot in my heart for the Wild Cards series, or at least the first several, and in particular the first one. But that's definitely not "best of all time", so I guess that's beside the point.
 
 
Grey Cell
17:55 / 13.10.03
I've already seen a lot of my favorites included here (Dune, Kim S. Robinson's Mars Trilogy, Hyperion, Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn and Greg Mandel series, Snow Crash...)

But one book that hasn't been mentioned yet (or maybe I just missed it) is Greg Bear's Moving Mars. I love that one.
 
 
J Mellott
12:31 / 16.10.03
I would have to say PKD's VALIS , but at the same time I have to disqualify that novel because it's semiaudiobiographical, and really just thinly-veiled theology.

That being said I choose Flow My Tears The Policeman Said as my best book. Not to say all other books suck, I just prefer that one.

J Mellott
 
 
hanabius yamamura
13:41 / 16.10.03
... personal favourite which, incidentally and in reference to another thread, i bought second-hand with no weird things contained there-in - 'The Man who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold (if memory serves as i can't find my copy) ... startling book and extremely well-written with at least two or three threads popping from its pages ...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:18 / 16.10.03
Best modern scifi is clearly Banks, the culture novels, especially the player of games (or maybe Consider Phlebas for space opera excitement)

Not dissing your choice of Banks, for he clearly rocks, but for full-on space opera excitement, Use of Weapons just HAS to beat Phlebas hands down... surely?

I actually wasn't that big a fan of Player of Games... it seemed to be an exploration of ideas he could do better in his "non-skiffy" novels- just seemed like a more developed version of parts of Walking on Glass. God, don't get me wrong- I still loved every minute(page?)- just don't think it was one of his best. 'sall.

Did anyone mention Moorcock's "The Black Corridor" yet? Not necessarily the best ever, but it had a LARGE impression on me when I was about 13 and read it while on holiday at my godparents' house... Read it again last year. Whoah fuck. With "Behold The Man" they both take two classic/boring/done-to-death ideas (yes, even by the time they were written) and fuck with them to the point of absolute wonder.
 
 
NotBlue
20:51 / 17.10.03
Scanner Darkly - Horselover Fat.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
13:44 / 21.10.03
With "Behold The Man" they both take two classic/boring/done-to-death ideas (yes, even by the time they were written) and fuck with them to the point of absolute wonder

...read this following your post - first time i'd read it and it was excellent ... cheers
 
 
Whisky Priestess
19:31 / 21.10.03
Stoatie say:
"Warrior poets. Nobody's come up with anything that good since, unless we're allowed to count Pullman's Armoured Bears."

This is utterly nicked from Icelandic sagas and Old English philosophy/verse traditions, rather like Tolkein's world-building, which seems a bit less of an achievement when you realise he lifted most of it from the same source. So unoriginal that after 800-odd years it seems original again. Clever bastard.
 
 
The Falcon
22:10 / 23.10.03
Not dissing your choice of Banks, for he clearly rocks, but for full-on space opera excitement, Use of Weapons just HAS to beat Phlebas hands down... surely?

Dude, I can't even remember Weapons. Phlebas rocks ass - supertragic.

I love PKD just now, just read The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, which - if we can't count Valis - is my fave.

Is The Naked Lunch sci-fi? Or does it's canonicity abnegate that?
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
11:24 / 24.10.03
Burroughs is definitely sci-fi, people who deny that are generally embarrased by the term. Wild Boys is one of my favourite Sci-fi novels.
If you want really hard, on the edge, take no fucking prisoners sci-fi check out 'Motherfuckers' by David Britton. An allegorical look at the holocaust which turns your hair white.
Oh yeah and check out Blood electric by Kenji Siratori.
That's probably my three favourites anyway, too hard to choose one.
 
 
Quantum
11:38 / 24.10.03
for full-on space opera excitement, Use of Weapons just HAS to beat Phlebas hands down
Hmm, I disagree- like Duncan I can't remember much of Weapons, but the Collapsed Anti-Matter dusting and gridfire destruction of the Orbital in Phlebas was fuckin' A, and the crew were cool. I think it feels fresher than the others because it was his first.
 
 
woodenpidgeon
07:59 / 05.02.04

Okay A late entry.

Olaf Stapleton's - The Starmaker is just superb. (haven't read L&FM)
PKD Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
UBIK (pretty good too)
Lovecraft- At the Mountains of Madness (how can this not be SF)
Shelly Frankenstein
Lem Cyberiad
Fiasco
Too many others
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:23 / 05.02.04
Got to say that I still consider the best sci-fi book to be as yet unwritten, but for a young genre it's doing pretty damn well.

Thoughts: Reynolds and Altered Carbon guy (Richard Morgan?) are both OK, but Reynolds has the edge, seeing as he's not doing some sort of tired Blade Runner/MMS ripoff with just enough style to make it palatable. But I still think there's a lot of room for a new master to come out of nowhere and blow our collective socks off with something really, actually, genuinely original ... in some way. Please ...

I now have to read Consider Phlebas.

What are people on? Dick is capable of being a great writer, but VALIS is arrant, solipsistic, appalling nonsense. Like a nutter rambling to himself after too much therapy and then expecting those people who were wowed by Do Androids et al to pay to read it. Had it not been written by Dick it would never have found a publisher and the world would have been a better place. It's only noteworthy as a coda; the pitiful ruins of a great imagination.

Death threats to the usual address ...

Oh, and Bester's The Stars My Destination is great - but did anyone else think it was just a cunning and subtle reworking of the Count of Monte Cristo?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:26 / 05.02.04
Whoops, I've just slandered Morgan. Altered Carbon *is* more than somewhat derivative, but his second novel Broken Angels is loads better. Read that one first.
 
 
woodenpidgeon
15:32 / 16.02.04
Whiskey P-

While I have to agree that VALIS is not *excellent* sci-fi, I do find it to be better than a simple nut-job ramble. It's a weak argument for me to say to look at his span of work --- but look at the man's span of work.

I rate this novel much higher than his award winning-- Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said. Blurring the line between the memoir and autobigraphical novel is an achievment. But, worthy of my highest praise, No.

And Dick was not such a celebrated author when this was published; publishing was not such an easy thing, more of the ease probably came from the public ignorance of SF of the time. 95% of SF writing was taking a gutter-dive after the golden-age sucesses. Enough to make Lem declare that Dick was the only American writing anything that wasn't rubbish.

But I do like Dick (Ha ha) and for me the 'Great American Novel' is not Huckleberry Finn, but The Man in the High Castle.
 
 
Simplist
19:18 / 17.02.04
Someone: Best modern scifi is clearly Banks, the culture novels, especially the player of games (or maybe Consider Phlebas for space opera excitement)

Someone else: Not dissing your choice of Banks, for he clearly rocks, but for full-on space opera excitement, Use of Weapons just HAS to beat Phlebas hands down... surely?

Funny, I've just finished Consider Phlebas, am two-thirds through Player of Games, and will be starting on Use of Weapons next (I'd previously read Excession and Look to Windward, but the earlier Culture novels remain out of print here in the states, and I only just got around to ordering them from the UK). Phlebas was indeed very good, but IMO a bit padded-out compared to Banks' later books. I thought it could easily have been 25% shorter and still just as good. It also seemed to lose a bit of its power due to my already knowing the Culture were in fact the good guys, which is revealed only gradually in the course of the narrative. Those minor quibbles aside, it is indeed a sterling and highly recommendable exemplar of the genre.

Player of Games, OTOH, features a much tighter narrative, Banks presumably having learned from the experience of writing Phlebas, and so far I'm finding it a much more compelling read in general. Comments on it and Use of Weapons as I finish them...
 
 
Jestocost
10:35 / 20.02.04
Norstrilia, by Cordwainer Smith.

Might be it a clue of obsessiveness that I picked a handle from there, even? Probably.
 
 
infinitus
21:46 / 22.02.04
I really don't get the hype about fucking Neuromancer, mediocre is the word I find most fitting. The guy made a good one in Do androids dream... but aside from that he's definately overrated.

Brave New World, 1984 and for god's sake - Farenheit 458, fucking fantastic. These are books that acutally have stuff to say about society in the present and not just about a possible "cool" future where people go to space and meet aliens.

Also the space epos Aniara, by swedish poet Harry Martinson, wonderful, epic, insightful, written in verse and written in the 1950s... Read it. The "Mima" he invented served as inspiration for HAL and for Mother/Father in the alien films.
 
 
Simplist
22:54 / 22.02.04
I really don't get the hype about fucking Neuromancer, mediocre is the word I find most fitting. The guy made a good one in Do androids dream... but aside from that he's definately overrated.

Now there's a misassignation you don't see every day...

I actually agree about Neuromancer, and in fact Gibson generally. Neuromancer represented a great stylistic breakthrough at the time it came out, but narratively it was a major retread of familiar sf themes. Post-Neuromancer, Gibson essentially wrote the same book over and over again: multiple interwoven threads follow various mostly uninformed characters around the edges of a larger narrative, the nature of which is never fully revealed; the characters (often coincidentally) play various roles in advancing said larger narrative, but its most important resolutions nevertheless take place offscreen; and in the end neither the characters nor the reader (nor, one can't help suspecting, the author) fully understand just what the point of it all really was. [Disclosure: I have yet to read his latest book, which is said to move beyond this general pattern.]

Phillip K. Dick, OTOH, is a whole other (and much more complicated) discussion, his work ranging as it does from the worst kind of 50s-era pulp-schlock to the best kind of 50s-era pulp-schlock to speed-addled paranoid nonsense to amphetamine-fueled paranoid brilliance to pseudo-theological literary public meltdowns... Well, you get the picture. I can't really recommend him as an author per se, in the sense of "read Phillip K. Dick"--as his work in general is so uneven, a random selection of one of his many, many books is a risky proposition at best--but depending on what kind of thing you like to read, there are some real PKD gems to be found.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
19:19 / 12.09.07
Thread revive! (Before I start, no matter if this was four years ago, Rizla has it right - Count Zero and [especially] Idoru win ahead of Neuromancer any day...)

So, having read and been kinda disappointed by Dan Simmons' Hyperion novels - enough with the Keats and classical window dressing already - and not especially wishing to sample any more thanks to the recent unpleasantness, I'm nonetheless left jonesing for kickass, galaxy-busting space opera that doesn't come loaded with the unmistakable whiff of right-wing worship of crypto-American military technocracy and authority.

I appreciate that such a commodity is pretty damn rare but I'd still like to hear people's suggestions. To start us off, I'm familiar with (and would recommend to anyone) Iain M. Banks, Alastair Reynolds, Ken Macleod and Charles Stross, but I don't want to disbar anyone here from talking about these authors' works if they want to open up what's cool about them. Someone good who is somewhat right-wing-American (specifically Californian/free-market extropian, really) is Vernor Vinge, but his works tend to feature complex, humbly bureaucratic and technically savvy underdog types fighting with wit and pluck against heartless Nietzschean supertyrants who would probably be the heroes of less sophisticated books. And the deep space material in his books - the fifty-million-years flight of shanghaied one-way time travellers and parallel galactic journeying by an immortal solipsist in Marooned in Realtime, the brilliantly imagined 'zoned' universe and inventive aliens* of A Fire upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky - is the real deal.

Cordwainer Smith is the mutt's too by the way. And I rot my own post already.

*I'm talking about a race of intelligent doglike pack creatures who share single minds within groups of half a dozen or so, and who are effectively immortal but ever-changing thanks to their capacity to gain and lose members in fights, through age and via intra-pack pup-bearing, but who can't cooperate closely between packs because the ultrasound that mediates their consciousness gets all fuzzed up with proximity... wanna hear more? check out Fire.
 
 
Blake Head
11:57 / 13.09.07
Peter F. Hamilton? I quite enjoyed his recent Commonwealth Saga. Fairly substantial as well.
 
 
Blake Head
12:46 / 13.09.07
Sorry, struggling to find much more to say. Long. Very long. Good doorstops long. Multi-threaded narratives. Big canvas. Politics. Chunky, compelling, get your teeth into it on a rainy Sunday afternoon operatic sci-fi in space. Probably not the best SciFi books ever written. No iffyness that I can recall, but it's been a while.

That or the recent Stephen Baxter series Destiny's Children incorporates space opera, particularly in the second book Exultant where FTL drives and foreknowledge become crucial to the nature of the war and multiple characters from different periods start running around. Most fun.

But I don't really know how much our tastes match up: I quite liked Simmons' Ilium/Olympos, I found Stross amusing enough but annoying in places, and when I read Excession a while back I thought it was pretty dull to be honest. If there are Banks fans reading: did I start with the wrong one, or is that fairly representative of the Culture novels?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:19 / 13.09.07
Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy is great- I really liked Pandora's Star, but didn't get more than about halfway through Judas Unchained (I think I got distracted rather than deciding it was mince, mind, and I fully intend to start it again at some point).
 
 
This Sunday
17:44 / 13.09.07
I'm going to try a balancing act and support both Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and Vladimir Nabokov's Ada because they're full of the SciFi trappings, but so absurdly speculative that they become science-challenge in a religious vein. Prove it Wrong novels, guaranteed to bring NLP-fans, the gnosticism-is-a-science types, and sometimes just the optimistic up and gunning. There's no stab at being real science, and yet, there are people who ascribe to the ideas in our own world, and the metaphoric relevance makes the practical application entirely secondary... but you still have to allow for a broad chance there may be reflections of, if not entirely accurate projections of, real future science in them.

They're both politically and socially relevant, damned well written and emotionally viable, both being in their way guidebooks of failure, stabs and corrrection, and still more failure, glorious and pathetic. Neither makes an attempt to be directives to life or society, to have great lessons or assignations of the moral realm. Snow Crash was a good riff on its cyberpunk predecessors, while acting as encouragement towards a future and new developments. Ada did something similar with its predecessors, precursors, and projected future responses and developments. Neither is afraid to be goofy, makes a stab at being dreadfully serious, they wear their influences on sleeves and across chest, face and palms of their literary hands, and both contain references to Finnegans Wake, which can't hurt.
 
 
el d.
12:05 / 14.09.07
Neal Stephenson rocks!

I´d vote for Snow Crash first, followed by The Diamond Age.

His visions always seem to entice without becoming predictable or cliché... So it´s Stephenson all the way.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
12:47 / 14.09.07
I'm what you might call a distant admirer of Stephenson - he's technically great (a meaningless compliment I know) and his novels are full of incredible ideas, but there's an undertow of persistent othering that bothers me, especially in Diamond Age. I'm thinking of his use of the 'faceless Asian hordes' trope in both that book (the Fists) and SC (the Raft populace), coupled with the use of comedy uncouth foreigners ('Jeeks') throughout. There's his admiring talk of the Neo-Victorians' ability to repress their emotions and thus acquire mastery over both nature and more instinctive cultures - and that's nearly a direct quote. The material to do with Nell's parents and family background in TDA also bespeaks a considerable amount of 'white trash'-focused class hatred.

Not having reading all of his books - I haven't so far been into any of the Baroque Cycle, so I may be misrepresenting him on the strength of his less mature or considered work - I don't insist that Stephenson is a big mean right-wing champion of white privilege, but these are elements in his work that I don't think I've misidentified and are a real stumbling block to getting full enjoyment out of them.
 
  

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