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Chirping mayan temples

  
 
dubpulse
07:46 / 12.12.02
Not sure if anyone posted this yet.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1206_021206_TVMayanTemple.html


Ah those Mayans, master astronomers AND master sound manipulators.
 
 
bjacques
09:17 / 12.12.02
Beautiful. Nomination for the first "easter egg?"
 
 
grant
13:41 / 12.12.02
Clap your hands in front of the 1,100-year-old Temple of Kukulcan, in the ancient Mayan city of Chichen Itza, and, to some researchers' ears, the pyramid answers in the voice of the sacred quetzal bird.

"Now I have heard echoes in my life, but this was really strange," says David Lubman, an acoustical engineer who runs his own firm in Westminster, California. The Maya, he believes, may have built their pyramids to create specific sound effects.


That's absolutely amazing.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
15:33 / 13.12.02
Wow, this idea is just asking to become the stuff of science fiction.

Incredible what the Mayas did with the pyramid
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
16:11 / 15.12.02
Weren't some of the Mayan pyramids built at the same time as Aegyptian pyramids?

A coincidence because they shared the same fascination for astronomy? Even so, why in the same epoch?
 
 
The Monkey
03:46 / 16.12.02
I don't know the time period (although I'm sure it was pre-Pizarro), but various Andean tribes used to make these clay pots/models shaped liked birds that, when water was poured through them, made chirping noises like the species they represented.

As to the pyramid thing, there's a lot of theories about ancient Egyptian traveol across the Atlantic (but no theories about Mayans crossing east and teaching the people of Egypt...even the looniest ancient-culture theorists tend to cleave to the Mediterranean and the Middle East as center of everything developed. heh.). I'm not in a position to evaluate their theoretical worth beyond the lack of archaeological data of such in interchange.

The Egypt-Central Asia theory also overlooks a very simple architectural fact: that the simplest form of megalithic building construction is a mound, and that a pyramid is a pointy (thus visibly man-made) mound. The former and latter have been used *everywhere* at some point in archaic construction (1) because of its convienience vis-a-vis available materials and construcitons mechanics/materials (2) because the weight distribution along the down-sloping walls allows for theoretically limitless vertical and horizontal expansion, (by comparison with post-and-lintel methods that generate contemporaneous dwellings around the megaliths) and these monuments were built for instilling awe-by-way-of-size. The Pyramid/mound form is still visible in a lot of Asian architecture, although it has become stylized. Pagodas, for one example, are stylized step-pyramidal forms, while stupas and many Hindu temples (particularly those in Tamil regions) are articulated cone- and mound- forms.

Furthermore, the Egyptian and Mayan pyramids had radically different functions: the former being particularly extravagant mastabas-cum-eyecandy, the latter actually being ritual centers for their culture(s). The Egyptians Pyramids were coated in a shiny quartz concrete and had no step-structure; they were almost unclimable until deterioration set in. There that they were used...although they did become a tourist attraction very soon after their construciton. Mayan temples by contrast seem to have many ritual and pragmatic functions...closer to a ziggurat in terms of use, both housing the central priesthood and severing economic and tithing purposes for the semi-sacred governmental structure.
 
 
Enamon
05:32 / 18.12.02
Monkey: Could you please provide some references concerning the quartz concrete coating? I have not heard of this before and find it quite interesting. Also I must disagree with you on Egypt not having any step pyramids. I believe that some of the older pyramids in fact were step pyramids. I wouldn't comment on the uses of both types of pyramids however. The only thing I will say is that I have heard reports of the King's Chamber of the Great Pyramid to have some peculiar acoustical qualities.
 
 
The Monkey
06:17 / 18.12.02
The quartz coating is described in a variety of historical accounts from Greek and Roman sources, and even a few Arabs ones, but I can't remember where I read them. More recent, architectural/archaeological descriptions of the Pyramids included articles by Zahi Hawas (who is in charge of almost all of the restoration and digs in Egypt) and Miroslav Verner's "The Pyramids".

As for the quartz thing and the no steps thing, I was referring to the capital-P Pyramids, as in those erected in the Old Kingdom period at Abydos (on the outskirts of modern Cairo) by Khufu, Kheferan, and the third guy. There are most certainly step pyramids in Egypt--the notably largest being that of Zozer, from periods earlier than the Old Kingdom complex. I can't recall the site offhand--Saqqara, maybe?--but there are older complexes of mastabas and other tomb-mounds representing regional, pre-unified, ancient Egypt (calling it Khem-et hasn't really caught on) where the architectural transition between earth mound (such as post-Nubian groups such as the Dinka still use), brick mound, mastaba, and step pyramid are articulated. The level of complexity corresponds fairly closely with the available man-power and resource-drawing capacity of the occupant.

I've been in the King's Chamber Cheops/Khufu twice in my life, and it is most certainly a bloody weird room--are little rectangular boxes in the middle of a pyramid ever normal?--but I don't know about its accoustics. Now, given its strange design (it's at the top of a very steep shaft and encased on all side by tons of sandstone) I can see it having some odd accoustics naturally--are you suggesting a consciously-designed accoustic property? I can't tell. Given that the shaft was filled with construction rubble to attempt to block entry up until modern excavation, though, it's not very likely that the center chamber had routine ritual functions.
 
 
grant
12:48 / 18.12.02
I'd heard a lecture by a fringey anthropologist guy who claimed that the pyramids in Egypt could be used (just like the Mayan step pyramids) as observatories, by putting a mirror or tray of water at the bottom of the one shaft and putting a piece of wood in the slats of the other shaft to sit on so you can look down at the mirror and see one specific star or constellation (usually Sirius).



I've only heard this theory the one time, and can't remember the guy's name.
He also thought the Great Pyramids used to have flat tops, but a later civilization added the pointy tops later, without realizing they were sealing up the "lensless telescope." His proof was that the pointy bits were a lot more worn (or at least had bigger spaces between the stones) than the lower parts (beneath the highest reach of the shaft), indicating inferior stonecraft. I dunno - it seems to me like points would wear down quicker regardless.

He also brought up Seneferu's "bent" pyramid:


Which does kind of look like the top was added later.
 
  
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